Originally posted by Incarnated
Psychology is a patchwork of best guess perceptions and assumptions of people with jobs in "psychology". It's far from a true "science".

A science is the study of an examiniable phonomenon.

I climb to the top of a tree and a drop a rock. I see the rock fall to the ground. You see the rock fall too. We all that have phyical working eyes in our head see the rock fall.

You are right that psychology can not always be verified in mathematical or exact terms. Though I would say each human and their consciousness is an examinable phenomenon.

psychology requires the "psychologist" to guess. In this case,. one phycologist see a rock fall, one sees the rock fly, one sees no rock at all.

That is a completely ignorant generalization of psychology.

Psychology is nearer to snake oils and quacks rather then doctors and science.

You speak of psychology as if it's worthless. I study human behavior, consciousness, and the science related to it. Yes, we use verifiable science in our research (CAT scans, fMRI, etc.). So lets say for example, you spend your life learning about outer space, which does not concern 99.9% of the worlds population, while I spend mine learning about human behavior and thought, something we obviously all possess.

Oh sure, their atthority shouldn't be questioned as such? If you did to their face most would argue thier schooling and experience. So too would have the quacks that blead all the people of past ages and the same goes for the quacks that would drill holes in the human skulls to "let the demons out"

That's right, because quacks thousands of years ago spent years doing peer reviewed research, examining actual people, seeing VERIFIABLE results, performing case studies, spending their lives and money to learn how to help people.

An aside, cranial injuries can cause an increase of pressure due to the cerebro-spinal fluid in the brain. Drilling holes into the skull actually relieved the pressure,. Skulls have been found with healed openings indicated the surgeries were successful and the patient lived. They may have thought they were exercising demons but the application resulted in healing the patient. Those drillers were the precursor to the doctors we visit today.

Yes, psychology has to guess but we do so based on evidence and research. To say all psychologists are uneducated quacks because we happen to study the most complex system (the brain) in the known universe is ridiculous.

Make up your own mind. Take control of your own Mind.

What do you suppose psychology is trying to do???

Originally posted by Tsuki-no-Hikari
Schizophrenia is nothing like what the OP described. The symptoms of schizophrenia are:

Positive symptoms:

Hallucinations, delusions, disorganized speech, disorganized behavior, and innappropriate emotions

Negative symptoms:

Alogia, affective blunting, anhedonia, avolition, and atentional impairment.

First of all, the symptoms you listed = loss of touch with reality.

Second, i'd be interested to know if you even knew the definition of any of the negative symptoms without looking them up.

To come here and tell the OP that he is wrong about his feelings and the diagnosis of his family members is unfounded. Not much is known about the cause of schizophrenia, but it does show genetic links. If he has four close relatives who show schizophrenic traits then there is a good chance he may too.

Its amazing to see incarnated babble and preach his nonsense and call scientists quacks.
What are your qualifications Incarnated?
Yeah thats what I thought, you have none at all, a high school diploma at best.


For the OP, if you really feel you are borderline schizophrenic then see a doctor.
The internet can not help you.

Everyone has thoughts they might be uncomfortable with.
I have been confronting the possible deaths of all my relatives for decades,
I assume preparing myself for the day I get the news.

Feeding your ego isn't always healthy, if you lived a life like that then sure, now its a struggle to change. But it can be done.

There are names for the Abyss you feel is out there, its called Daath in Kabbalism, its called argh, I forget now, but its got a name in Enochian Magick. I'm sure eastern mysticism has something too.

Sometimes its best to let all your thoughts run their course, write, sing, meditate, whatever lets the process complete itself.

Don't keep beating yourself over your head for thinking.

Again, have a clinical evaluation, have some kind of support system available that you are comfortable with in the event you lose control of these sensations you have.
Don't wait for an emergency for people who don't know you to help, its not going to have the same benefit of people you've built a bond with.

Originally posted by Silenceisall
I may be very wrong in this, but I feel that having a schizophrenic mind does not necessarily mean being a schizophrenic. It becomes a matter of choice. You can swim out into the negative, or you can see both as twin cosmic energies that surround us, and decide that you will move in the direction of love and forgiveness and humility. The only thing you need to remember is that the real world cannot be abandoned all together. You are still here. You still have a body for a reason.

I so wish I could remember this entire quote, your post reminds me of it quite a bit. It goes something like;

"__________ is a sea in which mystics swim and madmen drown."

I have looked everywhere I can think of online to find the complete quote again and the author, to no avail. So your idea is at least shared by others. I think someone even wrote a book somehow related to the idea, which I brushed up against looking for the original quote. He uses part of it as his title.


[edit on 16-1-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by Parabol
First of all, the symptoms you listed = loss of touch with reality.

Yes, schizophrenia is obviously a loss of touch with reality, but the point I was making was that none of what the OP was describing (at first) seemed to fit those symptoms. Just because the OP was experiencing a loss of touch with reality doesn't make it schizophrenia.

Originally posted by Parabol
Second, i'd be interested to know if you even knew the definition of any of the negative symptoms without looking them up.

As a psychology major, these things have come up in various classes, so yes.

Originally posted by Parabol
To come here and tell the OP that he is wrong about his feelings and the diagnosis of his family members is unfounded. Not much is known about the cause of schizophrenia, but it does show genetic links. If he has four close relatives who show schizophrenic traits then there is a good chance he may too.

I never told the OP that he was wrong. What I said was that I doubted it was schizophrenia both due to the initial symptoms he was describing and the fact that schizophrenia is such a life-altering illness that it really wouldn't slip by unnoticed.

Ya wanna know what? I hear that many people who figure out the meaning of life go mad. I think I figured out the meaning of life once, and ever since then... man I wish I could say I was a skitzo. (un)Fortunately, I came back to our reality just enough to not get consumed by the thought of everything.

It seems to me that anyone who has full blown schizophrenia is immersed in a negative and frightening “dream world”: aliens are controlling them through their testicles; the cutlery is bugged and sending their brain codes to the CIA, which is actually a brain erasing society run by centre-earth inhabitants that that speaks in a backward language...etc, etc.

It is a negative chain of thought that assumes that the universe if filled and run by controlling and devious entities. Yet I have met people who would not deny that the above is possible, but who are fine with it as a possibility because they understand that the universe contains unlimited possibility and that love and acceptance and forgiveness are far more powerful energies. In my opinion, these people are open to the same influences as the schizophrenic but are seeing it all differently. They are putting the negative and frightening thoughts in a non-threatening and fascinating context, energizing and protecting themselves with the positive.

Again, I have nothing but sympathy for schizophrenics. It may be that the reason young people get the “disease” is simply because they are so young and inexperienced. They have not found their core yet, and are more susceptible to the negative energies in the infinite. These people are very special. I think they have a very well developed third eye but have not mastered it yet. They have not been given the time. They are young and vulnerable...it is certainly not their fault.

Going further, there is the whole subject of the pineal gland as the seat of the third eye, and the DMT that it naturally produces. Those who have taken DMT have experienced what are called “true hallucinations,” so named because the trippers truly believe that what they experienced was real. I have read that Schizophrenics has a pineal gland “malfunction” in addition to too much dopamine in their brain. I believe there is a connection.

Also, in some cultures, shamen—who are believed to have a strong third eye are chosen for their position based on an early manifestation of symptoms that we in the West would associate with schizophrenia. They are given concoction that contains DMT and are expected to use the trips to figure out how to properly use their highly developed third eye (although they would not call it that). It seems that many of these young schizophrenics go on to become shamen, finding a balance through their experience that allows them to master their experiences.

Maybe the problem is that we are not giving schizophrenics enough respect by tagging them with a defective sticker. maybe they are far more remarkable than we know.

Since everyone has responded to the syntax of one part of your post and not the means of it I guess I will. I see what you are saying and most importantly I am responding to what you meant. My third eye is most definitely NOT open but at times I feel the strange sensations you are talking about. The more I immerse myself in books on astral projection the more I feel it.

At work here where I listen to coasttocoast with my headphones on I sometimes get the feeling of the middle of my forehead pulsing and myself falling sideways into myself and it begins to blur my vision. It feels not unlike what dizziness would be or some form of vertigo and you start to see yourself pulled back a bit. I also spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about this stuff so perhaps that is stroking those sensations too. Now I don't feel the mania or the other detriments associated with this sort of thing so that's good. I am not spiritually aware enough still and perhaps soon I might get to the point where the third eye is open and I will no longer be in this limbo ego vs. higher consciousness battle that I seem to toil with daily. I don't know if this is along the same lines you were thinking but that's what I got.

Originally posted by merryxmas

At work here where I listen to coasttocoast with my headphones on I sometimes get the feeling of the middle of my forehead pulsing and myself falling sideways into myself and it begins to blur my vision. It feels not unlike what dizziness would be or some form of vertigo and you start to see yourself pulled back a bit.

This is so interesting!

On some other thread (I don´t know the name anymore) some guys were discussing about religious/mystical experiences that can be induced by some kinds of hallucinogens (e.g. dmt, salvinorin a).

In the last months I´ve read hundreds of so called "trip reports", and your description of blurred vision, getting pulled sideways or back "into the body" fits right in! Don´t get me wrong: I don´t suspect you take hallucinogens! My theory is that some kinds of hallucinogens act as a backdoor to a state that can also be reached by other means (e.g. meditation).

By this post, I´m not contributing very much to the ongoing discussion about schizophrenia - but the similarity of the described phenomenom immediately struck my eye.

And so many different sources (Quantum physics (especially string theory), shamanic, taoistic and buddistic wisdom, trip reports, meditation reports, lucid dreams, near death experiences, out of body experiences etc. all point to one theory: Our known reality is not everything there is. Our known reality seems to be created by a global consciousness, by us individually, by God, by whoever! And behind it, there lies an even greater reality that can only be seen in certain states of consciousness (maybe schizophrenia?).

Every single one of the above mentioned sources represent a piece of a puzzle. And they all fit together....

[edit on 18-1-2008 by cm23]

[edit on 18-1-2008 by cm23] problems with edit

[edit on 18-1-2008 by cm23]