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vCJD - comments in my local Newspaper

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posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:20 PM
I was reading my local paper the Yorkshire Evening Press and came across this in the comments section. I haven't looked into the details that the poster provides but I thought it was worthy of further distribution - he certainly seems to have done a great deal of work into the subject - I felt that there may be others here that would find his links useful. If not, nothing ventured.....

Scroll down to the bottom of the page to comments by Flounder.

posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 04:45 PM
If she is correct about what killed her husband, it certainly isn't the first time that the Government would be involved in a coverup relating to health issues, and we can assume it won't be the last.

posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 05:39 PM

The comments have been removed, I've just checked. The story is incidental. Fortunately I anticipated that this would happen and had the foresight to copy them to Word. What Flounder has to say is in my opinion very, very important and I think that you will find they confirm your assumption.

Posted by: flounder, Bacliff, Texas USA on 4:20pm today
another senseless death, another work related source for the TSE agent, another coincident $$$

i am sorry for your loss. but let us look at this non-sense of the UKBSEnvCJD ONLY theory, it's as bogus today, as it was
18 years ago or so. ...tss




20 year old died from sCJD in USA in 1980 and a 16 year
old in 1981. A 19 year old died from sCJD in
France in 1985. There is no evidence of an iatrogenic
cause for those cases....


cover-up of 4th farm worker ???





now story changes from;

SEAC concluded that, if the fourth case were confirmed, it would be
worrying, especially as all four farmers with CJD would have had BSE
cases on their farms.


This is not unexpected...

was another farmer expected?


4th farmer, and 1st teenager


2. snip...
Over a 5 year period, which is the time period on which the advice
from Professor Smith and Dr. Gore was based, and assuming a
population of 120,000 dairy farm workers, and an annual incidence
of 1 per million cases of CJD in the general population, a
an individual in the general population to develop CJD. Using the
actual current annual incidence of CJD in the UK of 0.7 per
million, this figure becomes 7.5 TIMES.

3. You will recall that the advice provided by Professor Smith in
1993 and by Dr. Gore this month used the sub-population of dairy
farm workers who had had a case of BSE on their farms -
63,000, which is approximately half the number of dairy farm
workers - as a denominator. If the above sums are repeated using
this denominator population, taking an annual incidence in the general
population of 1 per million the observed rate in this sub-population
is 10 TIMES, and taking an annual incidence of 0.7 per million,
that in the general population...



in the USA, a 16 year old in 1978;


(20 year old died from sCJD in USA in 1980 and a 16 year
old in 1981. see second url below)

in France, a 19 year old in 1982;

in Canada, a 14 year old of UK origin in 1988;

in Poland, cases in people aged 19, 23, and 27 were identified in
a retrospective study (published 1991), having been originally
misdiagnosed with a viral encephalitis;

Creutzfeldt's first patient in 1923 was aged 23.

there you have it........TSS


20 year old died from sCJD in USA in 1980 and a 16 year
old in 1981. A 19 year old died from sCJD in
France in 1985. There is no evidence of an iatrogenic
cause for those cases....


Friday, January 11, 2008



Saturday, January 12, 2008

Prominent and Persistent Extraneural Infection in Human PrP Transgenic Mice
Infected with Variant CJD




SEAC 99th meeting on Friday 14th December 2007



MADCOW USDA the untold story









Transmissible Mink Encephalopathy TME




Monitoring the occurrence of emerging forms of Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease in
the United States






I only ponder how many sporadic CJDs in the USA are type 2 PrPSc?


Hardcover, 304 pages plus photos and illustrations.
ISBN 0-387-95508-9 June 2003
BY Philip Yam


Answering critics like Terry Singeltary, who feels that the U.S.
under-counts CJD, Schonberger conceded that the current surveillance system
has errors but stated that most of the errors will be confined to the older


ht © 2003 Published by Elsevier Ltd.


Tracking spongiform encephalopathies in North America

Xavier Bosch

Available online 29 July 2003.
Volume 3, Issue 8, August 2003, Page 463

"My name is Terry S Singeltary Sr, and I live in Bacliff, Texas. I lost my
mom to hvCJD (Heidenhain variant CJD) and have been searching for answers
ever since. What I have found is that we have not been told the truth. CWD
in deer and elk is a small portion of a much bigger problem." ...



Diagnosis and Reporting of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease

Singeltary, Sr et al. JAMA.2001; 285: 733-734.


Like lambs to the slaughter
31 March 2001
Debora MacKenzie
Magazine issue 2284

FOUR years ago, Terry Singeltary watched his mother die horribly from a
degenerative brain disease. Doctors told him it was Alzheimer's, but
Singeltary was suspicious. The diagnosis didn't fit her violent symptoms,
and he demanded an autopsy. It showed she had died of sporadic
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. Most doctors believe that sCJD is caused by a
prion protein deforming by chance into a killer. But Singeltary thinks
otherwise. He is one of a number of campaigners who say that some sCJD, like
the variant CJD related to BSE, is caused by eating meat from infected
animals. Their suspicions have focused on sheep carrying scrapie, a BSE-like
disease that is wide spread in flocks across Europe and North America. Now
scientists in France have stumbled across new evidence that adds weight to
the campaigners' fears. To their complete surprise, the researchers found
that one strain of scrapie causes the same brain damage in mice as sCJD.
"This means we cannot rule out that at least some sCJD may be caused by some
strains of scrapie," says team member Jean-Philippe Deslys of the French
Atomic Energy Commission's medical research laboratory in
Fontenay-aux-Roses, south-west of Paris. Hans Kretschmar of the University
of Göttingen, who coordinates CJD surveillance in Germany, is so concerned
by the findings that he now wants to trawl back through past sCJD cases to
see if any might have been caused by eating infected mutton or lamb. ...


DER SPIEGEL (9/2001) - 24.02.2001 (9397 Zeichen)USA: Loch in der MauerDie
BSE-Angst erreicht Amerika: Trotz strikter Auflagen gelangte in
Texasverbotenes Tiermehl ins Rinderfutter - die Kontrollen der
d lax. Link auf diesen Artikel im Archiv:

Its as full of holes as Swiss Cheese" says Terry Singeltary of the FDA
regulations. ...


Thu Dec 6, 2007 11:38



2 January 2000
British Medical Journal

U.S. Scientist should be concerned with a CJD epidemic in the U.S., as well

15 November 1999
British Medical Journal

vCJD in the USA * BSE in U.S.

BSE (Mad Cow) Update: Do Reports of sCJD Clusters Matter?

snip... see full text ;

Terry S. Singeltary Sr.
P.O. Box 42
Bacliff, Texas USA 77518

posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 05:43 PM
I believe that Flounder will not mind me posting his comments, I think that if he knew about this site he would post them himself.

I had no other means than to copy and paste from Word and I hope that the moderators understand this. I am just so glad that I did because this deserves much more publicity.

posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 03:41 AM
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Well that is interesting, and if the comments were removed it also implicates the media in the coverup, another demonstration that the media is owned by the same individuals who own the government. Deleting the comments from the webpage shows what lengths they have gone. I posted something similar to this on a BBC new forum page a long time ago, I recall the post was also deleted with no explanation why. The whole western medical system is totally corrupt and infected at this stage.

In recent years I have seen the medical system go the same way in Russia, which was originally much more centred around natural therapies and was more open about finding correct cures for various ailements. Even though you often had to bribe doctors to help you, and the system was totally corrupt from within, it was a different form of corruption and at least you could expect to receive the correct information and diagnosis. And for an example, the truth about the origins of AIDS was never hidden from the public like it is in the west. However their society has changed alot, they too are going down the road of pills for everything, the Medical Cartel taking increased grip of control, and they have also changed their tune as to the origins and truth of AIDS to be more in line with western practice. Russia and China are the world leaders in natural therapies, but in another generation that will have changed dramatically.

posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 06:49 AM

The UK press certainly want to prevent discussion about vCJD. When the phony conclusion was reached that it was a result of careless butchery, the press accepted that and went away. When I saw these comments by Flounder I knew that they would be removed pretty sharpish, I am just sorry that I didn't think to save the web page to my hard drive, instead I only had the foresight to copy and paste it to a Word document.

vCJD is a horrific disease, and none of us in the UK who are old enough to remember will forget the news footage of the BSE epidemic amongst cows.

When someone dies of vCJD it gets a little bit of news time, but nothing is discussed. If butchery was indeed responsible, which I for one strongly doubt, where is the closure and where are the prosecutions. We have been fobbed off, and due to the horror that vCJD inflicts up on the victim none of us really want to think about it.

In my opinion vCJD is a ticking time bomb, no matter what caused it. We have only a rough idea of the incubation period and of the period of risk. We have no idea how much contamination occured in the blood and plasma supplies. And, it is worth noting that a number of epidemiologists who researched the vCJD outbreak have ended up dead. Research it seems has drawn to a standstill.

In the UK we nolonger use the blood taken from donors in UK for plasma products, we import it from the US and have even bought a company in North America to protect our supply of vCJD free plasma products. This is because the blood plasma product suppliers have or are in process of being formed into a cartel or monopoly in the US. We, in the UK, it seems do not trust whoever it is that is buying up all these plasma producers.

posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 11:38 AM
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Can you tell us more about the epidemiologists who have wound up dead?

Can you edit those comments you posted from Flounder, the links aren't working

[edit on 17-1-2008 by golddragnet]

posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 02:44 PM
I am sure that you are aware of the Mircobiologists who have been dying in alarming numbers - it is pretty much well covered by the alternative media - Steve Quayle has the best list - he may not be everyones idea of a good source but all the deaths listed check out so I for one trust his information of this one. There are three that tie directly to vCJD, othere though on the list are haematologists, AIDs researchers, viral experts and of course, bio-terrorism experts. Statistically there is something not quite right....

There are other lists on other sites, rense has one, but Quayle's is the most comprehensive IMO, he has also collected together a number of articles from other sites which is worth checking out....

#2 Dr. C. Bruton, a CJD specialist -- who had just produced a paper on the a new strain of CJD -- was killed in a car crash before his work was announced to the public. Purdey speculates that Bruton might have known more than what was revealed in his paper.

#s6-8: Mark Purdey, his Lawyer, and Veterinarian working with Purdey Die: CJD doctor Mark Purdey was familiar with the expression "abnormal brain protein." Purdey’s house was burned down, his lawyer on mad cow issues was driven off the road and died and the veterinarian in the UK BSE inquiry also died in a mysterious car crash. CJD specialist Dr C. Bruton was killed in a car crash just before he went public with a new research paper. The veterinarian on the case also died in a car crash. Purdey's new lawyer, too, had a car accident, but not fatal. Before Dr. Purdey’s death, he speculated that Dr. C. Bruton (#2 below) might have known more than what was revealed in his paper before he was killed

#49: Dr. Michael Patrick Kiley, age 62. Died: January 24, 2004. Died of massive heart attack. Ebola, Mad Cow Expert, top of the line world class. It is interesting to note, he had a good heart, but it "gave out". Dr. Shope and Dr. Kiley were working on the lab upgrade to BSL 4 at the UTMB Galvaston lab for Homeland Security. The lab would have to be secure to house some of the deadliest pathogens of tropical and emerging infectious disease as well as bioweaponized ones.

posted on Jan, 17 2008 @ 03:24 PM
reply to post by KilgoreTrout

2 of the links don't work, but not to worry, the last link is to his own blog and has info there. I will certainly read through this when I have more time

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 01:20 AM
I am not sure if this is related in any way to your discussions... but while reading it I thought it might fit in with the OP.

Did pig brain tissue sicken Austin pork-plant workers?

The discovery that two Indiana pork-plant workers apparently developed symptoms of the same mystery illness that struck meatpackers in Austin, Minn., may be a significant break in a case that has baffled disease investigators for a month.

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:52 AM
Thanks Yankeerose I think that this does tie in very well with the information that Flounder has collected. Particularly judging from this:

So far 12 workers at the QPP plant in Austin have been identified as having the same collection of symptoms. Initially, health officials said the symptoms fit an extremely rare disease called CIDP (chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy). But after further testing they backed off of that diagnosis, and now say the illness is a new syndrome.

There are serious issues with the food chain here in my opinion and particularly with intensive farming and slaughter practices. That the diagnosis was initially thought to be CIDP, which Flounder discusses is interesting, that they 'backed off' also seems somewhat telling.

This is not something that I know a great deal about but there is a definate reluctance of the issue to be discussed and the media simply are not picking up on it on a national/international level. If these proteins have been in the food chain for this long there is no telling what the impact will be. The lack of awareness, also means that the symptons cannot and will not be recognised - with no chance of treatment or for that matter prevention being effective.

Why isn't there more being done to identify the cause? Are the mass meat producers lobbying to prevent this situation being investigated?

I would be grateful if you could keep an eye out for any similar stories and post them as an when. If for no other reason than to collect the information together and I would appeal to other readers to do the same.

Also, I think it is worth looking at Alzheimer cases, unusually high numbers and clusters etc.

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:59 AM
I find this story in today's Independent Newspaper interesting:

On the face of it, more evidence that nvCJD is caused by eating meat contaminated with BSE. But then we come to this paragraph:

Organophosphate (OP) sheep dip - blamed by many farmers for causing illness - is to be withdrawn until new containers that reduce exposure to the chemical become available, the Government said yesterday.

A lot of people are convinced organophosphates are behind nvCJD - especially since the distribution of people contracting the disease simply doesn't fit the profile who'd expect if it were caused by eating contaminated meat.

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Essan

Essan Fantastic Links thank you

The connection with organophates is astounding and Mark Purdey presents an astounding case. I found it reassuring that research is being conducted but given the international implications is it proportional to the threat. As intensive farming practices are rolled out globally the potential of contamination becomes phenomenal. I don't intend to scaremonger, but this is not getting the coverage that it requires and it represents a far greater risk than bio-terrorism which is receiveing six billion dollars of US government funding alone.

Anything else that you come across Essan I'd be glad to see. Cheers.

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 06:18 AM
I was thinking about this the other day!

The prions that cause the disease can't really be destroyed through cooking so you'd think that in restaurants or in homes any shared utensils with these prions could make them spread to anyone.

And I do wonder how long they "survive" (since they aren't alive). If they could get into the water that could be quite scary...

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 08:47 PM

Originally posted by monkey_descendant
And I do wonder how long they "survive" (since they aren't alive). If they could get into the water that could be quite scary...

This is just the problem - the lack of clear information - most people still operate on the assumption that the clusters in the UK were caused by negligent butchery. This explanation in my opinion is nolonger sufficient, just check out the links that Essan provides. The risk could be incredibly widespread, we need to stop using organophosates until we at least know whether there is a relationship between nvCJD and their use.

That said, I think the risk of the disease being transmitted by water is limited. Not that that makes the situation any better. The majority of us in the UK eat meat that has been intensively farmed, then there are diary products, bovine derived plasma products etc- if these prions are in the food chain then the implications are enormous.

posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 09:09 PM
As the "time traveller" John Titor predicted - nCJV is an epidemic with a slow appearance date. A guy even won a nobel prize for his work on testing tissue samples in Britain, but what is less well known is that a huge minority of the samples tested positive for prions...

And there is no reason to think it wouldn't be the same in the rest of the Western world.

posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 07:02 AM
I think some clarity is in order.

For something to be classified as a disease particularly an infection to be classified as a disease, a certain Dr Koch had something to say about this over a hundred years ago. You must identify the agent causing the disease, isolate the entity responsible and then demonstrate that same disease by re-infection with the identified and isolated entity.

This lead to the HTLV3 and LAV1 debate between luc Montagne and Robert Gallo over the HIV debate in the 80s.

Up until the early 1980s Kreuzfeld Jacobs as it was then termed was a syndrome .ie. something horrible and we don't know what causes it.

Prions were identified in the early 80 as a group of entities per se, shortly after that, Kreuzfeld Jacobs was identified to be caused by a prion, and CJD was born as an identified disease with recognisable aetiology. (who gets it, what happens etc etc)

This CJD group was elderly patients in the main and anyone who was not old was not necessarily identified as having CJD. It would perhaps be called progressive brain degeneration. Please bear in mind that the kits necessary to ID Prions from anything never mind brain tissue are still not widely available and true diagnosis mostly occurs post mortem.

There are many different explanations abounding on the internet and some interesting ideas in this very thread, but please be aware that there is no scrapie in New Zealand, there is no BSE in New Zealand, and never has been, in fact there are pathogen free herds in New Zealand, a status the neighbours in Australia would dearly love to have (again).

New Zealand has both CJD and vCJD in the population (the latter could be called CJD in the young), total numbers are very little different per 1000 Pop than in the UK. (and we know what happened there)
Japan had a higher level of CJD than did the UK (last figures I have seen are old so please feel free to correct me)

We have all, as a general population been exposed to prions basically for ever and so it is hardly a surprise we have them in our body flora (if a prion could be said to be alive that is).

My own personal opinion is a bit far out too, but I would suggest that injections used for innoculations and treatment of other infections is a far more likely source for problematical prion contamination than is eating meat. (think about New Zealand)

Whatever the aetiological agent responsible the numbers of individuals suffering this terrible and totally fatal disease is tiny.

To give a bit of context here. It would take at the current rates and assuming 100 fatalities from vCJD in the UK (an overestimation) per year, at least 250 years to have the same number of fatalities as Colon cancer deaths in one year alone in the UK. I know where my research $ will go .....

We should look at exposure (massive) and numbers (very small) and the total population (inconcievably huge) as a whole before we invent wild theories of cover ups and conspiracies concerning this disease. The numbers are just not big enough to make it worth the while of anyone to spend large amounts of time and money covering this up, there is no logical flow, and btw all this in the last 30 years too.

Prions were only identified and categorised in the 80s so how we have been manipulating them, without the technology or knowledge, since the early twenties is anyones guess.

Just my 2c worth..

posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 07:58 AM

Originally posted by Deharg
My own personal opinion is a bit far out too, but I would suggest that injections used for innoculations and treatment of other infections is a far more likely source for problematical prion contamination than is eating meat. (think about New Zealand)

Brilliant post and thank you.

While I do not suggest a conspiracy or cover up as such I do believe that there is an unwillingness for this topic to be discussed openly.

Have you read the links that Essan provided regarding the research into the connection with the use of organophosphates? They are very interesting. Perhaps we should be asking what is so different about the way in which New Zealand farms...naturally rich pasture land, free range farming, all year round grazing...???

Is NZ free of BSE and CJD? I should imagine that if not there is another explanation other than intensive farming methods and the chemicals used in those farming practices.

In your hypothesis that innnoculations and treatments for infections being the cause, I am presuming that you mean those given to animals, not bovine derived products used in human treatments???

I would also be gratefully if you could shed any light on whether an incubation period has been ascertained - testing in mice has evidently produced a fixed period of 250 days.

You also mention that the facilities for testing for the disease are very limited - can you therefore clarify how and if donated blood is screened for CJD?

I agree that based on current levels CJD is a low priority compared to cancer and heart disease, but since 1920, the first recognised case, the diagnosis rate has increased - generally only when it has reached the latter stages - indicating that there is an increased risk (correct me if I am making illogical assumptions here) - would it not make sense to isolate it now before it becomes a greater drain on resources? Makes basic economic sense to me.

posted on Jan, 23 2008 @ 04:54 AM
Thanks for the complement, I will try and answer your questions to the best of my knowledge (limited).

Innoculations as source. No I wasn't restricting this to animals, I mean that injecting anything that may contain something we cannot detect or screen for is a likely source for the prions being present in our bodies(internally in the blood). If we can't find them we don't know where they came from. To be honest if the meat eating thing was as certain as some suggest (I have my doubts), there would have been more cases of vCJD than 147 in total by Decemebr 2003(last figures I have). This is an incredibly small number.

Currently There is no incubation period I am aware of established for vCJD in humans. It is not even certain (yet) if the vCJD group are a separate group from the original CJD patients but with the disease showing earlier. (CJD numbers are down).

Donated blood screeing. Simply put it isn't.

Measures are in place.
Leocodepletion since Oct 99. (removal of white cells)
Importation of US plasma for blood product manufacture since End 99.
Recall any blood component or plasma product made from donated blood where the donor went on to develop vCJD since 1997.

And thats about it.

You are correct you are being a little illogical or rather you are making a connection where there is only circumstantial evidence of a link.
Because we diagnose it more does not mean there is an increased risk. it means we are diagnosing it more. If the first case was way back in the 20s we would expect an increase in diagnosis since the first cases. Don't forget this was only identified as a disease in the mid 80s. Before then all sorts of different descriptions were used. If diagnosis is post mortem and the doc wants to avoid this to "save the family stress", then some degenerative status could be on the death cert, then no post mortem.(no diagnosis)

You are correct it would make sense to isolate us from dangerous prions to reduce risk.
All we have to do is stop eating, drinking, walking and breathing and there you go. I am not trying to be facetious, I am simply pointing out that they (prions ) are everywhere. They are difficult to detect, difficult to erradicate(can't say kill as they are not alive in the classical sense) and mostly harmless (as far as we know).
With such low numbers and such a large UK population the risk benefit equation is way over on the do nothing and hope side.

Hope that helps? have to go back and do some work in the big bad rip off conspiracy fuelled world of medium sized Pharma...

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