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The vile rants of the Koran

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posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 09:41 AM
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Reply to Skyfloating

Discussions with many muslims have ended this way. You present them the facts. They deny it. You present more facts. Then they say: "Well, if you dont like it, then keep away!!!!"

What do you want Muslims to do?

Like I said before no matter what day and age we live in or no matter what the West wants We can never and will never change the teachings of Islam to fit into their way of Life.

And the West normally thinks that the Muslims will change their ways and teachings if they get more educated etc..

Well let me make it clear. I have been reared and bought up in UK.Got my education from nursery to college and now continuing with at university. My Islamic views have not been changed At ALL.
Than you can self imagine about how Hardcore Muslims will be in Islamic countries.

Understand?




posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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Reply to dbates

If you think womens freedom= socialise with men in pubs and clubs,wearing miniskirts and short tops,having sexual relationships,having homosexual relationships,drinking alcohol,taking drugs,smoking ,socialaise with men all around.

Than YES Islam is Totally against all the above stated and Muslim women will never be allowed to do any of them.

Women are respected not degraded in Islam.Thats why women are stopped from doing anything that might lead them in contact with the opposite sex.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to dbates

If you think womens freedom= socialise with men in pubs and clubs,wearing miniskirts and short tops,having sexual relationships,having homosexual relationships,drinking alcohol,taking drugs,smoking ,socialaise with men all around.

Than YES Islam is Totally against all the above stated and Muslim women will never be allowed to do any of them.




And you try to split hair's about the difference between culuture and religion?

Hypocrisy is a word I am reluctant to use, however.........


[edit on 15-1-2008 by Freeborn]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Thats why women are stopped from doing anything that might lead them in contact with the opposite sex.

Can't you see that that view promotes the arguement that women are unable to make positive decisions on their own. It's as if we know that all women want to do is bad things so they must be reigned in and controlled.

Freedom is the ability to do good, or bad. If you take away all ability for bad, it's not freedom. We just have to accept that we cannot control other people's lives like a dictator. My wife stays with me because she loves me. Not because I confine her to the house and make her wear ghost costumes 365 days a year so other men don't see her.

To me this is the basic fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Islam seeks to have you obey God by force and rule of law. Christianity states that it is your choice to obey or not to obey. Both state that there is rewared and punishment in the after-life, but only one gives you freedom to choose your reward. The Koran is more about rules and regulations than a relationship with God. It is a book designed to take away freedom from the individual by force if necessary.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to Skyfloating

What do you want Muslims to do?



For a start, stop imposing their backward laws on others. Stop violence and book burnings. Stop threatening jews. Stop dehumanizing women.

In your country you can do whatever you want. I call for barbaric behaviour to be outlawed in my country.




Like I said before no matter what day and age we live in or no matter what the West wants We can never and will never change the teachings of Islam to fit into their way of Life.

And the West normally thinks that the Muslims will change their ways and teachings if they get more educated etc..

Well let me make it clear. I have been reared and bought up in UK.Got my education from nursery to college and now continuing with at university. My Islamic views have not been changed At ALL.
Than you can self imagine about how Hardcore Muslims will be in Islamic countries.

Understand?


Yes. I understand. Unchanging. The state of no change is equivalent to the state of no progress and eventual dengeration.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 10:26 AM
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[Mod Edit: Off topic post removed. You are free to reply to the U2U or submit a complaint should you wish. For the moment though please post on topic or not at all. Thank you - Jak]

[edit on 15/1/08 by JAK]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:07 AM
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Reply to dbates

Can't you see that that view promotes the arguement that women are unable to make positive decisions on their own. It's as if we know that all women want to do is bad things so they must be reigned in and controlled.

Of course women can make their decisions but ONLY within the boundary of Islam. Women might not do bad but are prevented from that BAD happening.

Freedom is the ability to do good, or bad. If you take away all ability for bad, it's not freedom. We just have to accept that we cannot control other people's lives like a dictator. My wife stays with me because she loves me. Not because I confine her to the house and make her wear ghost costumes 365 days a year so other men don't see her.

For a Muslim freedom is Islam. In Islam for BAD there is only 0% tolerance. Bad is Eliminated from wherever possible.

To me this is the basic fundamental difference between Christianity and Islam. Islam seeks to have you obey God by force and rule of law. Christianity states that it is your choice to obey or not to obey. Both state that there is rewared and punishment in the after-life, but only one gives you freedom to choose your reward.

Of course God has made us and given us the guide to life 'The Quran'.Only God knows what rules and regulations the humans should follow and has given us The Quran to follow. For a Muslim this life is a test, the real life starts after death.

Christianity has changed and adapted to what Christians wanted during the past centuries. That’s why Christianity is decreasing and starting to become very liberal.
That’s why many young people born as Christians starting to adapt atheism.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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Reply to Skyfloating

Yes. I understand. Unchanging. The state of no change is equivalent to the state of no progress and eventual dengeration.

Yup that’s why Islam is the fastest growing religion. Its unchanged for the past 1400 years and never has and never will adapt liberalism.And Islam keeps growing as time goes on.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57

Of course women can make their decisions but ONLY within the boundary of Islam. Women might not do bad but are prevented from that BAD happening.



Forcing someone to good will never reveal if he/she is good or not. Giving someone the choice will reveal the truth. Humans have free choice, even if your religion tries to deprive them of it.



For a Muslim freedom is Islam. In Islam for BAD there is only 0% tolerance. Bad is Eliminated from wherever possible.


The muslims perception of what is "bad". And your attempts to "eliminate" bad have only caused a bunch of bloodshed and anger.



Of course God has made us and given us the guide to life 'The Quran'


I happen to know better guides to life than that book.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:44 AM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
God knows what rules and regulations the humans should follow and has given us The Quran to follow. For a Muslim this life is a test, the real life starts after death.

Fair enough, but how do you know that someone will follow the rules? Wouldn't God prefer someone who obeys becuase they want to, than out of fear of losing a hand or their head? I belive that while God gave us rules, he also gave us the ability to obey or to disobey the rules.

As a Christian, I believe in following the rules, but I don't believe that we should have laws against homosexuality or against people having beer or pornography in their own house. I'm not going to practice these things, but you're free to do so if you wish. It's called choice. Otherwise, God might as well have made robots to do his bidding. Did you ever think of that? Why did God give us the ability to disobey?

Enforcing the Koran as law, strips away our ability to please God and makes us slaves. It also gives too much power to individuals in charge.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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Reply to dbates

God has given rules to follow and Muslims should only follow that.

There is 0% tolerance for liberalism. Everything a Muslim does has to be according to Islam.

In Islam following Gods rules is the best way to please god.

If its soo harsh than why dont 1.2Bil muslims convert to christianity or ahteism?
But its the other way round.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the World.

Its the TRUTH.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
There is 0% tolerance for liberalism.

Then there is no room for people to be people. I know you might feel like you're protecting your religious view, but isn't God more able to do that than men?



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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Reply to dbates

Then there is no room for people to be people. I know you might feel like you're protecting your religious view, but isn't God more able to do that than men?

God HAS protected Islam from liberalist innovations. That’s why the Quran remains unchanged for 1400 years and Will remain unchanged.
When one starts to have liberalist views,than he also starts to change the holy scriptures and Stains/alters the scriptures to meet Ones/many's desires.

I was taught that Muslims believe in Injeel, Tawrat, Zabur, & Qur'an. Tawraat being the Torah. Injeel being the Bible.

The injeel are the gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Barnabas et al. (there are many gospels, some of which that are not included the New Testament.)

The whole of the Bible is written by men, the Torah by Moses, Zaboor by David, and the Injeel is the life of Jesus which was recorded by his Apostles.

The whole of the Bible is written by men, the Torah by Moses, Zaboor by David, and the Injeel is the life of Jesus which was recorded by his Apostles.

That is why the Qur'an supercedes all of these previous books; because it is the only 1 out of 4 the scriptures that are directly from God



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by kangjia57
 


Why is it that every time someone mentions the barbaric side of Islam it is dismissed with the "it's culture" arguement yet you criticise the West and Christian shaped societies for aspects of their culture rather than the religion itself?

Culture and Religion go hand in hand and they both help shape and define each other.

Slightly off thead, dbates, why the dislike of beer?
Whilst I personally disagree with prohibition of any sort I can understand the dislike, (but not agree with), of homosexuality or pornography, but alcohol? :shk:
Surely Jesus himself inbibed himself with alcohol on occassion; turning water into wine at The Wedding At Cana springs to mind.
If it's a personal choice, fair do, free will and each to their own.
I don't understand christian religous objections.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
why the dislike of beer?

Islam fobids alcoholic beverages. I could as easily have said wine I suppose. Take your pick it's still a no-no according to the Koran.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:12 PM
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Reply to Freeborn

Why is it that every time someone mentions the barbaric side of Islam it is dismissed with the "it's culture" arguement yet you criticise the West and Christian shaped societies for aspects of their culture rather than the religion itself?

If I start telling you about the Sharia Law than you will think its way More Harsher than the culture practises.

Let me tell you a few punishments about Sharia Law if applied properly:

Adulterers: Get stoned to death alive half buried alive under the ground.

Alcoholics: Get whipped.

Homosexuals: Get stoned to death alive half buried under the ground or get thrown off a cliff.

Thieves: Get their hands chopped off with a machete.

So you hear stories about cultural practises and you say its harsh and related to Islam. I say the Muslim countries should apply the Sharia Law properly and abolish all these cultural practises. Than no one can complain its harsh or cultural practise.

Its Islamic Law, ITS Sharia Law.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by kangjia57
 


And Im sure, given the choice, all those oppressed second-class women will stick to Islam?

God created homosexuals the same way he created straight people, but yet God wants one stoned to death or thrown off a cliff?

The Quran is written by god? God got off his cloud and came down to write a book did he? Or did he tell Muhammad(sp?) what he wants written in this book, and Muhammad did all the writting?



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:38 PM
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Reply to InSpiteOf

And Im sure, given the choice, all those oppressed second-class women will stick to Islam?

Muslim women are given the choice.
If the West provides them freedom than why don’t they all go on mass demos and cry to the media and the West to come and help them?

God created homosexuals the same way he created straight people, but yet God wants one stoned to death or thrown off a cliff?

Nope God didn’t create homosexuals. Evil Desires turn people into homosexuals.

The Quran is written by god? God got off his cloud and came down to write a book did he? Or did he tell Muhammad(sp?) what he wants written in this book, and Muhammad did all the writting?

The Holy Qur'an is the infallible Word of God, revealed to our Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhummad Mustapha (Peace be upon him) word for word, through the agency of the Archangel Jibraeel, (known as Gabriel in English), and perfectly preserved and protected from human tampering for the past fourteen hundred years!

Even hostile critics of Islam have grudgingly vouched for the purity of the Holy Qur'an: "THERE IS PROBABLY IN THE WORLD NO OTHER BOOK WHICH HAS REMAINED TWELVE CENTURIES (now fourteen) WITH SO PURE A TEXT."



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Muslim women are given the choice.
If the West provides them freedom than why don’t they all go on mass demos and cry to the media and the West to come and help them?


The whole culture of fear plays a huge role in why oppressed women stay in their oppressive environment. Its not much different from an abusive relationship. The threat of boldily harm or death keeps them in check, not to mention any unspoken threats against their kids.

Secondly, where would they go in the west? You said it 1.2 billion muslims, how many are women? lets say half for easy measure, thats a hell of a lot of refugees with no where to go, no one to take them in, and
no supportitive measures.

Just because they cant leave, doesnt mean they dont want to.


Nope God didn’t create homosexuals. Evil Desires turn people into homosexuals.


Religious dogma over biology. The homosexuals I know didnt just choose to find the same sex attractive; they didnt wake up one day and go "you know, that chick has a great rack! Id love to get in there!"





The Holy Qur'an is the infallible Word of God, revealed to our Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhummad Mustapha (Peace be upon him) word for word, through the agency of the Archangel Jibraeel, (known as Gabriel in English), and perfectly preserved and protected from human tampering for the past fourteen hundred years...



Uh huh, but it was still written down by some guy. And thats the problem, his own bias was bound to seep into the writting just as it happened to the bible, the torah, or whatever other religious text you bring up. Person, culture, and setting play a large role in forging religious texts as they influence the writter.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by InSpiteOf
God created homosexuals the same way he created straight people, but yet God wants one stoned to death or thrown off a cliff?

Let's for a second ignore the arguement about homosexuality being right or wrong. Let's assume for the sake of this discussion that it's just wrong.

Why would God want you to kill someone who was sinning if he wasn't forcing his (the sinner) will on someone else. If two men want to be homosexuals then they should be allowed to do so. If it is wrong God will judge them in the future. If they are killed, they how will they ever learn to repent? And if they repent only to save their lives, did they really repent?

I'm not implying that there be no punishment at all. If someone is killing or robbing, they're imposing on another's free will and life something that's not wanted. That's different. I'm only speaking of personal sins.

Why can't a woman wear a bikini top if she chooses? (In the proper setting) Are we, men, uncapeable of resisting the temptation of lusting? Are we men powerless? Are women that powerful that they can't be seen or heard from?

Within reason, let people do as they wish and let God sort out those that are evil since God is the judge and not man.


[edit on 15-1-2008 by dbates]



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