Originally posted by LDragonFire
I have no idea what your talking about. I have to assume that mans sin is why we have had so many species go extinct? This is interesting since most species that have gone extinct did so before humans where here, at least there is no evidence that humans where here.

And the point is...
Btw are you trying to impose creationism as belief of Christians?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
It amazes me that people still believe or have faith in a story with so many flaws, that they will believe aliens are really demons

Even aliens are not demons [in which I don’t believe], what so called aliens have with my faith?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
and the fossilized remains of dinosaurs where put here by the devil.

Please, who spread that stupidity?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Again if God Created all species, then why would there be a 99.9% failure rate?

This is basic thesis’ switch.
Animals weren’t created immortal.

Originally posted by Austin9599945

First off..I never said I needed anyone.
I was simply desrcribing the ignorant girl(women)I dated.

second..Im not too young to date...i AM too young to love.I have never claimed to love a girlfriend...I for one understand loves complexity and realize its beyond my maturity level.
thanks.

I find him unjust,sorry.Infinite punishment for finite sins.
He judges beliefs over actions.
If you believe = you get heaven.
you dont believe in me but save lives,cure cancer,help people etc = you burn for eternity.

There was once two scientists who went on a journey to a remote part of the jungle. They argued for some time as to whether a guide would be best for them in their journey but one of them got frustrated because the other scientist could not find a guide he trusted so he trekked off on his own, even though the other highly objected. Finally he meet up with a guide he trusted so they went off into the jungle and they reached their destination in good time but no sign of the other scientist for another 2 days. He came stumbling out of the jungle into the camp bleeding, missing several fingers, with a fever, severe blisters and dehydrated. Near death in other words. He was cared for and when he woke up he asked the other scientist, "How did you get here unscathed?" The other scientist replied, "I had a guide" So he looked over at his friends guide and we was missing part of one leg, an eye and had a mangled arm. He said to his friend, "Couldn't find a good guide, huh?" "Oh no" His college replied, "He was the best because after speaking with him he knew where all the trouble spots were!"

Do you understand that in regards to your "girl troubles"? That was my intention.

Do you agree with every scientist who preaches his or her theory on evolution? Is there 100% accord across the plain of the church of evolution? That answer would most likely be "NO". So how is it any different for preachers giving a sermon? If I claim that evolution says this and says that but you correct me I would be in error to think ALL evolutionists believe the same thing. I debate and argue against many "preachers" of Gods word because many are ignorant and teaching false doctrine.

Lastly, you disagree with someone being punished for infinity because they committed finite sins, correct? Tell me please, did they commit those sins against an Infinite or finite God? Since God is Infinite His Love and also Wrath are Infinite.

Originally posted by SilverSmith

Originally posted by Austin9599945

First off..I never said I needed anyone.
I was simply desrcribing the ignorant girl(women)I dated.

second..Im not too young to date...i AM too young to love.I have never claimed to love a girlfriend...I for one understand loves complexity and realize its beyond my maturity level.
thanks.

I find him unjust,sorry.Infinite punishment for finite sins.
He judges beliefs over actions.
If you believe = you get heaven.
you dont believe in me but save lives,cure cancer,help people etc = you burn for eternity.

There was once two scientists who went on a journey to a remote part of the jungle. They argued for some time as to whether a guide would be best for them in their journey but one of them got frustrated because the other scientist could not find a guide he trusted so he trekked off on his own, even though the other highly objected. Finally he meet up with a guide he trusted so they went off into the jungle and they reached their destination in good time but no sign of the other scientist for another 2 days. He came stumbling out of the jungle into the camp bleeding, missing several fingers, with a fever, severe blisters and dehydrated. Near death in other words. He was cared for and when he woke up he asked the other scientist, "How did you get here unscathed?" The other scientist replied, "I had a guide" So he looked over at his friends guide and we was missing part of one leg, an eye and had a mangled arm. He said to his friend, "Couldn't find a good guide, huh?" "Oh no" His college replied, "He was the best because after speaking with him he knew where all the trouble spots were!"

Do you understand that in regards to your "girl troubles"? That was my intention.

Do you agree with every scientist who preaches his or her theory on evolution? Is there 100% accord across the plain of the church of evolution? That answer would most likely be "NO". So how is it any different for preachers giving a sermon? If I claim that evolution says this and says that but you correct me I would be in error to think ALL evolutionists believe the same thing. I debate and argue against many "preachers" of Gods word because many are ignorant and teaching false doctrine.

Lastly, you disagree with someone being punished for infinity because they committed finite sins, correct? Tell me please, did they commit those sins against an Infinite or finite God? Since God is Infinite His Love and also Wrath are Infinite.

Yes your story made good sense.

and so did the second part...perhaps those sermons were incorrect.

although I understand what you mean in your last part...I still find in unjust.
but otherwise you made sense.

Originally posted by Austin9599945
I find him unjust,sorry.Infinite punishment for finite sins.
He judges beliefs over actions.
If you believe = you get heaven.
you dont believe in me but save lives,cure cancer,help people etc = you burn for eternity.

That’s Protestant dogma from Reformation and Protestants believe in that. Sadly as they claim that is derived from Bible, but it's not true. But that’s not the situation in Orthodox Church [and Roman Catholic, too].

You're both incorrect.

Scripture, which is read by both Roman Catholics and Protestants (Reformed Theology) declares that God alone "saves" those whom He has predestined for such.

No one ever chooses to be saved, no one ever seeks God unless first called by God. For those citing "free will" then I challenge you to find that for me in Scripture.

God is the Potter, we the clay, who are we to say to the Potter, "What are you doing (with me)? Some God has set aside for a blessing and others to be damned. There is no working oneself into heaven, there is no amount of goodness that we can do on our part to be saved nor can one pray themselves into a position of Gods grace.

God alone saves us and also calls us.

Originally posted by SilverSmith
You're both incorrect.

Scripture, which is read by both Roman Catholics and Protestants (Reformed Theology) declares that God alone "saves" those whom He has predestined for such.

No one ever chooses to be saved, no one ever seeks God unless first called by God. For those citing "free will" then I challenge you to find that for me in Scripture.

God is the Potter, we the clay, who are we to say to the Potter, "What are you doing (with me)? Some God has set aside for a blessing and others to be damned. There is no working oneself into heaven, there is no amount of goodness that we can do on our part to be saved nor can one pray themselves into a position of Gods grace.

God alone saves us and also calls us.

I was just saying what I was taught by educated christians.
And from talking to them the only way to get to heaven is through christ.

doing good gets you nowhere..saving lives etc.

thats my problem with it.
But you said something about Roman Catholics and Protestants?

what was that again?That no one can choose to save themselves?
Basically your life is already planed out and you cant be saved etc?

if thats what you meant I didnt know that.
I never really understood the different branches of christianity and stuff.
so if someone could sum them up it would be awesome.

Originally posted by Austin9599945
I was just saying what I was taught by educated christians.
And from talking to them the only way to get to heaven is through christ.

doing good gets you nowhere..saving lives etc.

Yes, yes, that's the exactly in what Protestants believe! And that's wrong.

Originally posted by Austin9599945
what was that again?That no one can choose to save themselves?
Basically your life is already planed out and you cant be saved etc?

Again, that's Protestant dogma.

Originally posted by Austin9599945
I never really understood the different branches of christianity and stuff.
so if someone could sum them up it would be awesome.

There are huge differencies between Orthodox Church, Roman Catholic and Protestants [I talk about traditional Protestants from XVI c].

Originally posted by Austin9599945

what was that again?That no one can choose to save themselves?
Basically your life is already planed out and you cant be saved etc?

if thats what you meant I didnt know that.
I never really understood the different branches of christianity and stuff.
so if someone could sum them up it would be awesome.

Everyone is capable of doing both good and bad deeds and this is in the realm of subjectivity. Lets say that good deeds could grant us entrance into heaven. What if I then said that my good deeds are far greater than yours thus I have set the bar higher for entrance into heaven or that my position in heaven should be greater?

So then my deeds are based on selfishness. Scripture though states that no one is "good" for when we state "Oprah is good because she helps so many people" sure it's a good thing but Oprah herself is not "good" in the sense that her goodness can save her for God is the Ultimate Good and is her "goodness" greater than Gods?

God demands perfection from His creation but who is perfect? Who can then be saved? No one can, thus none can save themselves and no one can do any amount of good deeds to work for their salvation. Christ alone, God Incarnate was and is perfect. This is why Christ died for He alone was perfect and in Him the Believer rests their salvation. Therefore when God looks at the Believer He does not see their imperfection but rather Christs Perfection for He is our Advocate. Yet in my daily life I am a sinner, in a practical manner but perfect IN Christ in a positional manner.

So it is then asked, "What can I do to be saved?" The answer is, "Believe upon the name of Christ Jesus" Works are what the Believer does IN Christ so as to be a witness of their salvation and changed life for again Scripture states....."If a man be in Christ they are a new creation, all things of old have passed away, behold new things come"

I'm sure this will only stir more questions which is fine. I'm trying to give the most concise reply as possible in this limited format.

Originally posted by SilverSmith

Originally posted by Austin9599945

what was that again?That no one can choose to save themselves?
Basically your life is already planed out and you cant be saved etc?

if thats what you meant I didnt know that.
I never really understood the different branches of christianity and stuff.
so if someone could sum them up it would be awesome.

Everyone is capable of doing both good and bad deeds and this is in the realm of subjectivity. Lets say that good deeds could grant us entrance into heaven. What if I then said that my good deeds are far greater than yours thus I have set the bar higher for entrance into heaven or that my position in heaven should be greater?

So then my deeds are based on selfishness. Scripture though states that no one is "good" for when we state "Oprah is good because she helps so many people" sure it's a good thing but Oprah herself is not "good" in the sense that her goodness can save her for God is the Ultimate Good and is her "goodness" greater than Gods?

God demands perfection from His creation but who is perfect? Who can then be saved? No one can, thus none can save themselves and no one can do any amount of good deeds to work for their salvation. Christ alone, God Incarnate was and is perfect. This is why Christ died for He alone was perfect and in Him the Believer rests their salvation. Therefore when God looks at the Believer He does not see their imperfection but rather Christs Perfection for He is our Advocate. Yet in my daily life I am a sinner, in a practical manner but perfect IN Christ in a positional manner.

So it is then asked, "What can I do to be saved?" The answer is, "Believe upon the name of Christ Jesus" Works are what the Believer does IN Christ so as to be a witness of their salvation and changed life for again Scripture states....."If a man be in Christ they are a new creation, all things of old have passed away, behold new things come"

I'm sure this will only stir more questions which is fine. I'm trying to give the most concise reply as possible in this limited format.

yes more questions indeed.
but you've said it in a way that makes better sense then Ive heard before from others.

the way YOU said it makes the good deeds situation make sense...

but what if there were no rankings in heaven?you're in and you're in.
therefore no ones BETTER deeds show.

I kinda just made a pro christian argument in my head...if deeds were the case then people would omly be good just so they could be in heaven.
well...thats sorta true.
But I think if it were based on deeds alone the world would be better off..possibly...
But I think the belief in scripture is kinda the same way.For example...WHY are you religious?

I dont think its because you love God that much...I dont think you're a christian BECAUSE you love Him,that stems off later....I think it STARTS with the fear hell...(im sure im wrong...but eh..just hear me out)
But alot of them wont admit it for fear of being accused of "only believing it out of fear"

regardless..its STARTING to make more sense...but some things still stump me.

Theres sooooo many religions the whole "what if im wrong" situation always pops into my head.

I just wish the first commandment was "thy shall not travel faster then light"

man i'd so be religious.

Originally posted by Austin9599945

yes more questions indeed.
but you've said it in a way that makes better sense then Ive heard before from others.

the way YOU said it makes the good deeds situation make sense...

but what if there were no rankings in heaven?you're in and you're in.
therefore no ones BETTER deeds show.

I kinda just made a pro christian argument in my head...if deeds were the case then people would omly be good just so they could be in heaven.
well...thats sorta true.
But I think if it were based on deeds alone the world would be better off..possibly...
But I think the belief in scripture is kinda the same way.For example...WHY are you religious?

I dont think its because you love God that much...I dont think you're a christian BECAUSE you love Him,that stems off later....I think it STARTS with the fear hell...(im sure im wrong...but eh..just hear me out)
But alot of them wont admit it for fear of being accused of "only believing it out of fear"

regardless..its STARTING to make more sense...but some things still stump me.

Theres sooooo many religions the whole "what if im wrong" situation always pops into my head.

I just wish the first commandment was "thy shall not travel faster then light"

man i'd so be religious.

Questions are fine, in fact in Scripture God says, "Come let us reason together"

You are confusing "religion" with being a Believer. Religion, much of what we see today, is man made. It's mans way of trying to "feel" more righteous or closer to God by way of doing ritualistic things such as saying the same prayers over and over. The way "religion" is described in Scripture is to "visit orphans and widows in their distress"

It can be looked at in this manner. Religion is a person seeking to reach God by way of deeds and a Believer is one who knows God has reached down to them in their sin and saved them. So a Believer then seeks to do good deeds BECAUSE they have already been saved. The religious person seeks to do good deeds to obtain salvation.

Again, I did not seek God but rather God called me, as with all Believers. So the "turn or burn" sermons are of no effect. I had no fear of hell because I had no fear of God as a non-believer.

Lets sit down with a Hindu, a Buddhist, an agnostic, an atheist and a Christian and have some pie. This is a special pie called "Truth" How can each group get a slice of this Truth when each group claims to have the sole Truth?

A Hindu or Buddhist may claim that they are "all inclusive" yet the atheist then says to the Hindu, "I would like to be a Hindu yet I wish to keep my atheist tenets" This would be impossible because the Hindu believes in over 2 million gods. Suddenly the Hindu belief is not so "all inclusive" is it? So as long as you believe as other Hindus you can then be a Hindu. See how that works? So again Truth can never be relative but must be Absolute.

Originally posted by AshleyD

But I'm going to preempt your 99.9% extinctions vs. new species from an evolutionists point of view. I get emails from them daily and know how they think. Envy me. They'll simply say these newly discovered species are nothing more than evolution popping up new species in our own time.

The point of evolution is that things don't just "pop up". Plus, when the world is 3/4 ocean we're bound to be discovering new species every now and then.
I always wonder... haven't Christians ever thought that maybe God's plan was to have things evolve? Is that such a terrible thought. After all, in alot of ways we're just an experiment to him/her/them/it, right? When a scientist wants to see how a bacteria grows they throw it in a petri dish and see what happens next. I think Earth is the petri dish, and we're the bacteria.

I just wanted to provide from a different point of view, and answer to the OP of this thread. d
this world is imperfect because of Mans sin, not just because Adam sinned, but because man continues to grow more self-centered and further from God.
if you read the bible it explains why we have suffering in the world and death.
God made a perfect world and man wrecked it. Its not Gods fault, thats like getting in a car accident and asking the dealership why the built a smashed car. its crazy.

this is my view.

I was gonna give you a story but the very fist reply from Phoenix says it way better than my story could of!

Originally posted by Methuselah
I just wanted to provide from a different point of view, and answer to the OP of this thread. d
this world is imperfect because of Mans sin, not just because Adam sinned, but because man continues to grow more self-centered and further from God.
if you read the bible it explains why we have suffering in the world and death.
God made a perfect world and man wrecked it. Its not Gods fault, thats like getting in a car accident and asking the dealership why the built a smashed car. its crazy.

this is my view.

Incorrect, most species went extinct before humans were here. So what you say is impossible.

Originally posted by LDragonFire

Originally posted by Methuselah
I just wanted to provide from a different point of view, and answer to the OP of this thread. d
this world is imperfect because of Mans sin, not just because Adam sinned, but because man continues to grow more self-centered and further from God.
if you read the bible it explains why we have suffering in the world and death.
God made a perfect world and man wrecked it. Its not Gods fault, thats like getting in a car accident and asking the dealership why the built a smashed car. its crazy.

this is my view.

Incorrect, most species went extinct before humans were here. So what you say is impossible.

Im going to have to agree with you on that one. Personaly I think its more the fault of the "demons" etc... who continue to pull man kind away from God.

-fm

[edit on 30-3-2008 by funky monk]

In answer to the OP, creationism only APPEARS imperfect. We haven't discovered everything God made, nor are we probably ever going to.

God is the creator and is above all earthly knowledge. If we knew everything, then wouldn't we ourselves be Gods?

Our God-given gift is to be creative...to create. But we will never be able to create a universe or an earth. That would require the knowledge of God.