Hezbollah 'proud of being US enemy'

reply to post by masonwatcher


Nicely put

My personal opinion is that the israeli's have been far more guilty of "terror" tactics than hezbollah ever has.

reply to post by Sublime620


I never said that cluster bombs hadn't been used, but was taking acception to the assertion that huge numbers of Iraqis had been killed by them, or that they were routinely used against civilian targets. As for the reasons for being in Iraq in the first place, that's a whole other debate.

reply to post by budski


Regarding Israeli terrorism- how many Israeli sucide bombers, car bombers, random mortar/rocket attacks into urban areas have there been over the years? Am I saying that the Israelis have never caused civilian casualties?- absolutely not. Have their targets been civilians? -no.
I'm failing to see how one can compare civilian casualties as a result of an attack against combatants, vs. intentional targeting of civilians. When Israeli civilians are killed having lunch(riding a bus, participating in the Olympics, etc..) why is there no outrage, but if Palestinian civilians are killed because they were near an explosion aimed at combatants, there are apoplectic fits? I'm not trying to say Palestinian deaths are irrelevant. I'm just saying that if your true concern is civilian deaths, all civilians should receive equal concern.

Reply to BlueRaja

Regarding Israeli terrorism- how many Israeli sucide bombers, car bombers, random mortar/rocket attacks into urban areas have there been over the years? Am I saying that the Israelis have never caused civilian casualties?- absolutely not. Have their targets been civilians? -no.

Regarding Palestinian terrorism-how many Palestinians have drove bulldozers flattening houses? How many Palestinians fly apaches and shoot at disabled people? How many Palestinians have built ‘Buffer zones’ walls/electric fences full voltage with mines? How many Palestinians have tanks shelling towns leading to entire blocks flattened?How many Palestinians sanction on human basics?

Live in Palestine as a Palestinian than come to me and tell me the Israelis are Right.OK?

A lot more Palestinians have died than Israelis.
Basic human rights are being rejected.
Civilians have died because they couldn’t get the medical treatments because of Israeli checkpoints.

Palestinians don’t have hi tech weapons to fight with.

And When life becomes soo harsh than One indeed is forced to use his body as a bomb.

If you love Jews soo much than Re-shift them back in Germany or US.

Understand?

And please don’t reply saying Ohh the hamas did this so Israel did that in response.

Think of the situation.

reply to post by BlueRaja


I am appalled at any atrocity regardless of who committed it, but it is usually the israeli's who are the instigators, and they KNOW they are firing into civilian area's - they just don't care.
I've said before that I have some sympathy for the israeli position, but I detest their tactics as much as I detest the suicide bombers tactics.
This tit for tat has been going on too long, and the israeli's seldom give an inch, whilst expecting all others to capitulate.

Let me ask you this - if a foreign power attacked your country and the only way you could fight back was using guerilla tactics what would you do?

Suicide bombings are the ultimate guerilla tactic - that doesn't make them right, but we live in an age where the media are controlled and where whole countries are labelled just because they object to foreign occupation, and some people just have no other way of fighting back.

People will always fight back against what they perceive as oppression by whatever means at their disposal.



[edit on 17/1/2008 by budski]

reply to post by kangjia57


So it's perfectly acceptable to target Israeli civilians to be murdered? You do understand that the walls, buffer zones, check points, bulldozing, are a direct result of attacks on civilian targets. The terror techniques used against the Israelis are what's responsible for the increased suffering(or should the Israelis just stand by and suck it up?). If the Palestinians were willing to discuss matters peacefully, they'd get much better results. What has ended up happening is you have 2 sides, and neither wants to budge, compromise, or bury the hatchet.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by BlueRaja]

Originally posted by BlueRaja
The terror techniques used against the Israelis are what's responsible for the increased suffering(or should the Israelis just stand by and suck it up?). If the Palestinians were willing to discuss matters peacefully, they'd get much better results. What has ended up happening is you have 2 sides, and neither wants to budge, compromise, or bury the hatchet.

If you pull back a bit farther, you'd see that the Palestinians had their homeland taken from them by England to please Lord Rothschild and set up the Israeli state he wanted, and which has been relentlessly enlarging itself and oppressing and terrorizing them. It's a question of perspective, you see.

And as for discussing matters peacefully, every time that occurs, the US comes in and promises the Palestinians a pony, while the Israelis receive billions yearly in foreign aid and weaponry.

And never once did they get that pretty pony.

reply to post by gottago



If you'd look back even further you'd see that Israel was home to the Jewish people before the Palestinians, and that the Arabs sided with the wrong side in WWII.

reply to post by BlueRaja


Then using your reasoning, the Jews should have received Egypt as their homeland.

Reply to BlueRaja

No the real problem is that Israel wants to Extend. And Palestinians want their land back. There won’t be any Peace till the Palestinians don’t get their land back.

The Europe has sent the Dirty Disease to Middle East and now it’s hard to control it. It just wants to spread.

reply to post by kangjia57


The extensions that Israel has made was as a result of winning several wars(i.e. '67 and '73), where it was attacked. You'll notice that Egypt got its land back(because it sat down at the table and talked sensibly). What new territories have been claimed since then, as being Israel proper?

reply to post by gottago


Egypt wasn't the historical land of the Jews. Israel was. The Arabs sided with the power that tried to exterminate the Jews. The Jews got their historical lands back. Are you seeing a pattern here?

reply to post by budski


I would fight a foreign military. I wouldn't indescrimately kill civilians. So long as that tactic is the preferred means of fighting, I can't give my sympathies to the cause.

reply to post by BlueRaja


Well that's my point - if the occupying force (as you saw it) was unreachable, or if the only way to hit back at them was with your own death, or you lacked the weapons to hit anything but softer targets, and this after your felow citizens had been targetted.

And let's not forget that all israeli's over 18 are required to serve for a minimum term, and men are reservists until their mid forties - so some would see all isreali adults as legitimate targets, although personally I disagree.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja

 

And let's not forget that all israeli's over 18 are required to serve for a minimum term, and men are reservists until their mid forties - so some would see all isreali adults as legitimate targets, although personally I disagree.

Every time I see this arguement it just makes my blood boil.

Is like me saying that every palestinian female is a legitimate target for murder because they could give birth to a terrorist. Its insane!

Or lets kill every male dont matter if it is a child, elderly because they could be a terrorist.

reply to post by Bunch


It's not my argument - it's an observation and extrapolation of the way SOME people think.

I don't like it, but unfortunately, some people DO think that way.

reply to post by budski


I would fight soldiers- not go to their home and kill civilians. There's no political cause that justifies the intentional targeting of soft targets, just because they're easier to kill than soldiers. Just because an Israeli may be on a Reserve list, that could be called up, doesn't change their status. If you go out with the intent to kill someone that's not wearing a uniform, or carrying a weapon, only because you hate them, that's indefensible.
If the Palestinians would use peaceful means to address their grievances, I believe the Israelis would be much more accomodating, and even make significant changes to improve their situation. So long as they only resort to violence, they're not going to get the red carpet rolled out.

reply to post by BlueRaja


I think you may be underestimating the historical factors and also the intransigence of the israeli's, not to mention the fact that while they are backed by the US they will continue to bully.

I also think it's a little simplistic to say that you wouldn't do something - of course there's honourable intentions, but until you have actually been in a certain situation I'm not sure a person can know how they would react.

reply to post by budski


The Israelis get along with the Jordanians and Egyptians, because they were willing to talk their differences out. The Israelis returned a huge portion of land to the Egytians in fact. They have even talked to the Syrians. The problem with the Palestinian leadership is that anyone who is moderate, isn't gonna be the popular leader, and anyone who isn't moderate isn't gonna be able to deal with Israel diplomatically. I truly believe that if the Palestinians could get some moderates representing them, they'd get a much better chance of having demands met. Their quality of life would go up dramatically, as would their self autonomy.

As for what I would do under extreme circumstances- I know I'm not a religious, political, environmental, etc... extremist. I know what constitutes a legitimate target, militarily speaking. There is no circumstance that would cause me to go after innocent civilians. I've been under fire before, and never had the urge to do anything against my nature.

Originally posted by noangels
Your wrong my friend,from the 1st day of this disgusting war your killing machine has targeted civillians.Your pathetic leader Bush tryed to kill Saddam when he was eating in a bagdad restraunt(incidently this act also shows Bush is not a man of his word-he gave saddm 24 hours to leave and then bombs him before that!)
He knew damm well others would be killed,but gave the go ahead.Disgusting lil druggy

So there you go sunshine.right since day one your corrupt war machine has targeted civies,and missed the main target!

Well, don't read a thread for a while and you can miss hate-filled little chestnuts of wisdom like this.

You got any sources for your story about the bombing of Saddam? Sure you just didn't get some time zones messed up?

"Corrupt war machine" targeting civilians? Well, I've already come up with sources stating the US doesn't civilians. You can choose to believe it, or go back to the Playstation. Ask Mom to trim off the crusts of your sandwiches first.