Hezbollah 'proud of being US enemy'

reply to post by kangjia57


Falling back on semantics and trying to read meaning into gods words that aren't there.

Pretty typical of organised religion.

If you are religious, then gods word should be GODS WORD - not somebody else's interpretation of it.

The passage you quoted states implicity that god doles out the punishment - but yet gain, man has taken alleged holy words and interpreted them to suit himself.

Par for the course really.

Originally posted by kangjia57
These laws are soo harsh because it creates fear in whoever is thinking to commit crime. Crime rate is minimised greatly and society is maintained and disciplined properly.

Seems like an easy AND lazy way to control the populous. Rule through fear.

Reply to budski

Quran- 4:15 "If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four (reliable) witness from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them. Or God ordain for them some (other) way."

Quran-24:2 "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication-flog each of them with hundred stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the last day."

Quran-17:32 " Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

Quran-33:33 "stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display."

The 100 whips are for those who hav sex before marriage.Stoning to death is for those who do it after marriage.

Originally posted by kangjia57
The Bible was corrupted...

I fully agree with that.

...that’s why God sent the Quran because he himself has taken the responsibility to prevent The Quran from alteration/modification that’s why its text has remained pure for 1400 years till today since revelation.

And how do you know that?

reply to post by kangjia57


And yet nowhere in any passage does it mention stoning (old testament punishment) or putting to death.

Your point is moot.

I am unwilling to discuss this area with a person who believes it is OK to change the words of their god to suit their own purposes - whether this be through sharia law or the mouth of an imam.

Thanks



[edit on 29/1/2008 by budski]

Reply to intrepid

Seems like an easy AND lazy way to control the populous. Rule through fear.

Well God has made humans the Best of creations and sent guides to follow. Otherwise there would be no difference between humans and animals.
Controlling society to keep maintain moral values is not a bad thing.
But controlling them with lies to carry out wrong actions is indeed terrible.

reply to post by intrepid


Control and rule through tyranny and fear using "religious teachings" as an excuse is the oldest trick in the book.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Well God has made humans the Best of creations and sent guides to follow. Otherwise there would be no difference between humans and animals.

Creations that he also imbued in them lust and other desires. He also gave us free will. Then he sends a law to counteract what he gave to us? There goes free will out of the window. That doesn't make sense.

Controlling society to keep maintain moral values is not a bad thing.

Yeah, but WHO'S in control.

reply to post by intrepid


And yet we are now supposed to rein in our "baser" urges and submit to the law of an alleged deity - or rather, mans version of what they think the deity means.

I've yet to see a passage that isn't quite implicit in its meaning, but man continues to twist the meanings for his own ends.
Bit like being in the debate tourney really

reply to post by kangjia57


Using your logic to punish and prevent recidivism, you could either use capital punishment for all crime(very low recidivism rate with this solution), or perhaps less severe methods-

Crime/Punishment-

pornography- gouge out eyes
liar-remove tongue
glutton- remove stomach
rapist- immasculation

I'm being sarcastic of course, but do you see how mutilation as a deterrent is uncivilized? What's the root cause of these things in a religious sense? Sin, right? That's committed in the mind before any action is ever initiated. Mutilation is just treating the symptom, but not addressing the causation. Would it not be preferrable that people do the right thing because they know they should, rather than because they fear the consequences of doing the wrong thing. If the only deterrent is fear, then someone will do the wrong thing if they think they can get away with it, whereas the person that does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, will always choose correctly. In civilized societies, people are punished by imprisonment/fines, or both. In a religious sense, God will deal with anything not addressed by the aforementioned solutions.

reply to post by intrepid


I see no contradiction between freewill and laws that must be obeyed. With freewill, one can choose to obey or not to. God wants man to choose the right thing, but doesn't force him to. There are consequences for choosing the wrong thing. If humans were merely robots, incapable of making wrong decisions, then what point would there be in their love or worship of God. The fact that humans can choose to do wrong, but don't is what God wants to see. Striving to do the right thing should be the goal, as it's easy to do the wrong thing.

reply to post by BlueRaja


That is exactly my point. Worship god out of free will. But here we've got "worship god properly or you're going to be flayed." What free will is there then? That's not worshiping god because you love him, it's worshiping because you fear him.

Btw, you still didn't answer my question about how you know the Qu'ran is unspoiled after 1400 years.

reply to post by intrepid


I wasn't defending the Qu'ran, Koran, or whatever other spelling there is, or that anyone should be flayed.

reply to post by intrepid


I think that was kangija intrepid.

reply to post by budski


That is who it was. He was the one extolling the use of mutilation.

reply to post by BlueRaja


I'm not sure about extolling - he seemed to be basing his opinion on bad interpretations of what the koran says, which is quite typical of those who rely on "scholars" or imams to tell them what their religion means.

Some points in the koran are quite contentious, particularly with respect to sharia law.

But then, the bible has often been misquoted or misrepresented to reflect certains views or values.

IMO it's not the religion (ANY religion) - it's what man has made of it, usually to suit their own goals.

Originally posted by BlueRaja
reply to post by budski

 

That is who it was. He was the one extolling the use of mutilation.

My apologies. I quoted the wrong member.