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Hezbollah 'proud of being US enemy'

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posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


I was in the Al Anbar province(in support of both the 1st MEF/1st MARDIV, and 2nd MEF/2nd MARDIV), and can concur that the security situation was such that no one in their right mind would try to go around giving surveys. I will say this though- Al Anbar is very sparsely populated compared with other regions in Iraq, so the high casualty figures wouldn't have been able to come from there. Ramadi was the major population center, and while dangerous, there weren't tens of thousands of fatalities occurring there.




posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


With regards to Western Media sources- it was my experience that their reporting was more negative than what we were observing, not less so.
The Arabic media was completely biased against the US, and was reminiscent of the Iraqi information minister's level of accuracy.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Just as well, if there was no way to measure them


I would still take the accepted figures of around 660,000 - 750,000.
These fall within the median range of published figures - 1.2 million is too high IMO. but we'll probably never know the exact figure.

And whichever way you look at it, that's an awful lot of dead people.

Then there's the 4 million+ displaced persons directly attributable to the war.

As for the media - that's why I chose as my figures two highly respected sources.

I don't see the western media as being critical of the war - rather the opposite in fact, in their own way.

Regional media in thegulf states is always going to very critical - which is why I always check for verification when I see something on a site like presstv

[edit on 28/1/2008 by budski]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by budski
Just as well, if there was no way to measure them


I would still take the accepted figures of around 660,000 - 750,000.
These fall within the median range of published figures - 1.2 million is too high IMO. but we'll probably never know the exact figure.

And whichever way you look at it, that's an awful lot of dead people.

Then there's the 4 million+ displaced persons directly attributable to the war.


I agree- whether my numbers are right, or yours- war is never pretty.
I may be willing to agree to higher numbers if all causes of death are included. Before the surge, Al Anbar was the most violent location in Iraq, and if those numbers weren't coming from there, the rates/incidence of violence in the other 3 unstable provinces wouldn't make up for it.(14 of the 18 provinces were for the most part stable, with little to no violence of any significant numbers). With Al Anbar being stable now, that would be at least 15/18 provinces where there aren't regular incidents. That's another reason I have a hard time with the numbers. The 600k to 1.2 million fatalities would've had to all have come from only 4 provinces, making it even harder to be unobserved.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 

These are fatalities since the start of the war, with more occurring at that time.

One of the articles I posted previously states that the casualty rate has been dropping, and that it was greater at the start - which makes sense

The sooner both our countries are out of there, the better.

There was no evidence for the excuses that bush/blair used, and I think we have better things to spend the money on than propping up private companies in a mistaken foreign adventure.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
 



The sooner both our countries are out of there, the better.





I agree with this too, but....my timetable would involve certain conditions being met first, rather than just immediate withdrawal. I believe it's in everybody's interest that the Iraqis be able to handle their security needs, prior to leaving, so they're not out their flapping in the breeze.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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I agree with you Bud,I wonder what the total sum is for the USA and UK's involvement in these conflicts out there?

Just think the amount of good that sum would do if it was spent on good causes rather than lost causes.

The main thieves out there are the Private contrators who should all be shown on crimewatch here!Just crazy to have them there in massive numbers-fair enough if someone wants delta or sas trained body guards and are willing to pay the market rate for their expertise,but there are so many more out there doing jobs that could and should be done at normal army rates!



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


Once we went in there, that was inevitable - no way could we just pull the plug and leave them to it, that would very likely be a disaster of epic proportions.

BUT we have to get out ASAPP - then we have to leave them to it and stop frittering money away on wars of greed and ambition and do something worthwhile.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by noangels
 


I know a few ex-marines (royal marines) who are making a LOT of money over there.

This is war the bush/blair way - corporate driven with little accountability.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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No money is worth being over there mate,you have to be insane to risk your future for money.Army recruitment must be dropping quicker than britnys knickers,how on earth can even the young jobless here want to end up in Afganistan or Iraq for terrilble pay?

I have some old buds from 2 para and next regiment up that stuck lazers on scuds in the 1st war for the air crew.there still in the uk doing well in civvy street,glad there not risking life for bits of paper



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 02:48 AM
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I wonder how Uk forces will feel when they are home again, nobody will welcome them home like the falklands or world war 2 . Nobody thinks they have fought for the UK like the few of the RAF against the luftwaffe or the navy of Nelson . They will think of them as foreign interlopers and imperalists , or do british troops think the public supports them ? , I do not think the british are as easily fooled as the americans as to their troops true objectives in the ME.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by Rahl Darc
 


If you want to assign blame, then Blair and the government should be the recipients. Soldiers don't make foreign policy, and I would take a dim view on any folks treating them like American vets returning from Vietnam.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Yeah...

Here are some of those "evil" troops hard at work for the "big" "bad" oil corporations...



Question:

When we stop fighting injustice over there and let the Islamic Fascists take over, would you be the one to tell those children that democracy is not possible because you don't want to spend any more money? Are you going to tell them their sister, the one in the video clip, is going to be stoned to death because she slipped up and went to far on a date? How about that little boy on there, what if he steals an apple because he is hungry, because the "troops" were pulled out and aren't delivering any more food, now he gets his hand cut off. You going to tell him why? Are you going to face up to your responsibility and tell him and her it is YOUR FAULT?

Can't tell them the troops don't want to be there, that would be a lie no matter what you type on here. They know it, I know it, anyone not lost in wanting to be the next big contributer to the politically correct band wagon knows it. I have TONS of friends over there that I write to each and every week, they all want to be there doing what they are doing. FACT, not just speculation or someones "POLL" or some other easily manipulated number, or sitting home typing what you think... Just plain fact...

Funny I wonder who you all will blame at the next 9/11 event... Will you blame yourselves for calling for us to stop fighting them over there? OF COURSE NOT... It will again be someone else's blame. Some obscure corporation that you all believe is the Antichrist or some such reptilian drivel..

Instead of looking for blame, why not look at what is being done over there? Or is it too difficult to look past your politically correct preconceived ideas?

Semper



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 09:07 AM
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Reply to semperfortis



When we stop fighting injustice over there and let the Islamic Fascists take over, would you be the one to tell those children that democracy is not possible because you don't want to spend any more money?


Yes of course we can definitely see democracy forming!

Half a million Iraqis dead with a Civil war.

Justice has been made.




Are you going to tell them their sister, the one in the video clip, is going to be stoned to death because she slipped up and went to far on a date? How about that little boy on there, what if he steals an apple because he is hungry, because the "troops" were pulled out and aren't delivering any more food, now he gets his hand cut off. You going to tell him why? Are you going to face up to your responsibility and tell him and her it is YOUR FAULT?


Its called Sharia Law and every Muslim agrees to it. When one living under those laws also knows the consequences of being caught committing that crime. Thus decreasing criminal activites.



Instead of looking for blame, why not look at what is being done over there? Or is it too difficult to look past your politically correct preconceived ideas?


Back to square One again. Why be there in first place?

When those kids grow up and wonder why their country is in such a messed up state.
They will wonder why did the americans come in when there were no WMDS.
They will wonder why is Iraq soo poor when they have got soo much oil.

Yes we see how much has been learned from Iraq.

Plans are being made to spread democracy in Iran aswel.The people are waiting for 'the liberators'.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 09:19 AM
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One...

Their Civil War, as you so easily put it, is being fought and supported by Syria and Iran. This has been proven time and time again but I am sure you missed that little fact. Over 80% of all enemy combatants captured have been NON Iraqis.. Google it, but look deep you have to sort through the politically correct hyperbole you apparently are subject to. So it is NOT a civil war..

Two,

Are you really supporting stoning and maiming?

MAN!!! if you are we are worlds and ages apart in our societal evolution. I have no idea how to relate to someone that believes in such barbarity..

Semper



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 10:10 AM
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Reply to semperfortis



Their Civil War, as you so easily put it, is being fought and supported by Syria and Iran. This has been proven time and time again but I am sure you missed that little fact. Over 80% of all enemy combatants captured have been NON Iraqis.. Google it, but look deep you have to sort through the politically correct hyperbole you apparently are subject to. So it is NOT a civil war..


Does it matter who supports who?
Would there have been a civil war if the US hadn’t invaded Iraq?



Are you really supporting stoning and maiming?


Its part of Sharia law.
So Yes I fully support it because I am a Muslim.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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Would there have been a civil war if the US hadn’t invaded Iraq?


ONE.. It is NOT a civil war...


a war between political factions or regions within the same country.

Online Dictionary


TWO

Barbarism and inhuman behavior are acts that civilization has moved beyond, no matter what religion...

Semper



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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Reply to semperfortis



ONE.. It is NOT a civil war...


What is it than? Beautiful democracy?



Barbarism and inhuman behavior are acts that civilization has moved beyond, no matter what religion...


Islam is one religion that has stayed the same for past 1400 years.
So what in the world makes you think that Muslims will change the scriptures to follow your liberal ways?



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 11:10 AM
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Did you see the definition of what a Civil War is that I posted above?

Don't believe that one? Look it up yourself..

What is happening in Iraq is the singular invasion of foreign adversaries attempting to disrupt and depose the Democratically Elected Government.

You can think what you want, but you can't change a definition.

Two

If being civilized is being liberal, then yes I am liberal.

If being against the torture and maiming of people due to some unprovable and unsubstantiated belief is liberal, I am gladly liberal.

I am a Christian. (yes also unprovable and unsubstantiated) If the Christian church still advocated the barbaric policies you support, I would no longer be a Christian. I have no place in my life for one human being justified in inflicting brutal, cruel and inhuman behavior on another due to some belief system.

People change as a normal function of society. We learned, well at least some of us, that we don't have to act like animals and engage in inhuman behavior to achieve our goals.

I really never thought I would meet anyone that believes in that kind of barbarity and inhuman actions here on ATS... Logic would dictate that an intellectual mind would be repulsed by that. Guess I was wrong...

Semper



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to semperfortis




Barbarism and inhuman behavior are acts that civilization has moved beyond, no matter what religion...


Islam is one religion that has stayed the same for past 1400 years.
So what in the world makes you think that Muslims will change the scriptures to follow your liberal ways?


Which is why the culture has been stagnant since the time of the Crusades.
Is it the masses that want such oppression, or the few in charge that decide for them, and brutally enforce it?



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