Girls Age 3 Hitting Puberty : Hormones In Food and Water to Blame

What is the relevance of the quote from the journal you posted.

It doesn't have anything to do with lack of research on the subjects from ten, twenty, thirty, name any date in the past.

American racism has everything to do with this and I will not leave it at the door.
You are the one pushing the agenda that there is something wrong with African American females without considering that maybe its totally natural for them in their environment.

If African American's are historically treated with second class status, and their normal or abnormal reproductive development was not looked into for a thousand years, then
your claim in increase of precocious puberty is not valid.

There is zero data to compare to, so you can't have any increase.

From the same article you linked to

Yet not all scientists are convinced of an actual rise in precocious puberty; reports have been anecdotal, and studies have been small or inconclusive.

The premise of your thread is not holding up under scrutiny and you are getting defensive about it.

Maybe its just puberty.

reply to post by Legalizer


The relevance is that though NOT ALL SCIENTISTS believe in this, there has been a rise. I illustrated an article that had some data - since the original link was to a newspaper in England (the Sun) that some people consider a rag paper.
There is no hard data from 25+ years ago on this topic. Hell, honestly, there is not good data from the last 10 years. This topic is not something the American Government or the CDC requires reporting on. Every case does not require a phone call to a database to log the numbers.
American racism has nothing to do with this. Unless the Big Bad Government is poisoning a specific group of people, then yes, it does.
I am NOT pushing some agenda about a problem with African American females...
How does this sound - WE BOTH start this over - since we both seem to be very emotionally charged on this issue when it most likely is a misunderstanding...

I can see that things are getting somewhat tense, so let's remember to be civil with one another.

I really don't think Legallizer intended for what he said to be construed as racist; I think he was making a point about the effects of past injustice.

That being said, those kind of misunderstandings will be a lot less likely if certain people who have been hostile and insulting in this thread would cease doing so.

Originally posted by harddrive21
How does this sound - WE BOTH start this over - since we both seem to be very emotionally charged on this issue when it most likely is a misunderstanding...

I have no emotions on this subject at all. Are you having emotions?

I read more data than you have apparently.

The POS..I mean PROS study, is considered to be potentially biased and full of inaccuracies.

The data seems to be nudged in the direction of what they wanted to report, which is the rise in early onset puberty. There were too many age groups left out of the study, therefore negating results for late onset puberty to affect the data. The reports came from many doctors with many methods of applying their data to the study.
This is bad science.

There is no consensus on this topic scientifically or medically speaking, because the data is inaccurate, the method is flawed.

This is not my opinion, this is the opinion of the scientists who deal with these data.

Racism certainly plays a role in collecting accurate data.

Google is never far way: Racist medical history

Originally posted by scientist

Originally posted by harddrive21

Girls Age 3 Hitting Puberty : Hormones In Food and Water to Blame

www.thesun.co.uk

doctors having to give increasing numbers of tots jabs to keep puberty at bay.

yikes... doctors having to give more "jabs?" I assume that means shots, which means more chemicals. So let me get this right.. you fight hormones and chemicals with more hormones and chemicals? Something about that just doesn't add up. Oh well, the American way...

No. It's not the American way. Why do you automatically assume this is American? I haven't even read the article and know its in the UK....

Reading *is* fundamental

reply to post by Quazga


The study Legalizer and I were discussing was one posted earlier from the Journal Pediatrics that was had some data from the US. The Sun article is British.

And Legalizer - Not everything has to do with Race. It plays a part historically, yes, and even now. But there is data available, whether you agree with it or not, that show Soy and Phthalates as chemicals that can affect development of children (onset of puberty early).

There are over 50,000 new man made chemicals in our environment.
How can you point to just two?

Did you know that chewing gum is PVC with phthalates in it? MMM yummy.

Did you know the dosage in a 1960's or '70s contraceptive pill was 800% of the current dose, they had no idea how much was needed so they just went for a high roll.

Did you happen to read the research where they found it very likely that early onset puberty was decided by the physician because of the appearance of breast budding, when in fact this very same appearance is caused by obesity. Oh whats the big plague in America today? Right Obesity and its cousin diabetes.
Obesity itself causes early onset puberty.

Come and sing a ghetto athem with me "I like big butts and an can not lie, you other brothers can deny, but..."...watch the video, you'll get the idea.

66% of the American population is now overweight.
78% of African American women are identified as overweight.
See a picture here yet?

There are too many variables for all the non scientists in this thread to do any more than speculate wildly and make largely one directional assumptions. Especially since so many people here seem to have woken up yesterday with no sense of history.

There are cases of child pregnancy going back to Kentucky 1834, surely they were big soy eaters and plastic users back then right? The girl was 10.

There are cases with children entering puberty within 12 months of birth.

Here's wikipedia page of the youngest mothers There is a picture from 1871 of a pregnant girl around eleven years old. Guess it was soy and phthalates again there?

At least read as much of the data thats available before you skew your opinion and that of others. Instead of one article in a tabloid, and another from a journal which you mostly ignored.

reply to post by Legalizer


OK Sir, since you are the expert, and our opinions and beliefs so crazy, please list all your references outside of a google search a wiki page that proves man made chemicals are safe for all people and the environment. We had two mods earlier in back to back posts that presented data on Soy and Phthlates, please post some data that shows those chemicals are 100% safe (no government limits on amounts used or restrictions) and that their data and references are completely wrong.

I think he's saying its way to soon and theres too little research to through stones in any one direction .

Theres allot of good arguments here.

Also i dont think he's saying your wrong . Just that theres soooo many other things that can be at play here that blaming any one thing seems like a cop out .

Maybe i read wrong . But like i said theres allot of good points that shouldn't be over looked cause they don't support the article at hand.

reply to post by Mindless

Mindless - yes, Legalizer brings up some great points, including that the research is not all there. But, there is some data available that shows some chemicals in food cause problems. Aspartame (brain tumors and Lymphona) is one I can think of off the top of my head. But what does growth hormone, steroids and antibiotics that end up in our meat and milk do to us? Is there a problem? Could there be a problem? Could Soy in formula or Phthalates in plastics cause problems? That is the heart of this thread. What do people think of it, post information, comment and discuss.
To just pass it off as chemical exposure is not a problem at all just seems careless. Some scientific discoveries happen by accident or because of the scientists conviction. This may be a situation where the companies using the harmful agents just won't say anything because of the liability. Information is not available because there is no national or international database that tallies, for example, early puberty. That would be one way to get information. We can't go back in time to get it. We have to start somewhere. If a trend is noticed now, we can retrospectively ask people about their experiences, but memory is a hell of a thing - we lose it or forget it. Are there links between early puberty and, lets say, caesarian delivery or from formula (no breastfeeding)? We gotta start somewhere.
Frankly, right or wrong, my opinion is we need to look further into these issues NOW, not later, not retrospectively. There will be some human created preservatives, sweeteners and additives that will be OK, but some will not. Time to look into this, the sooner, the better.

I am certainly not saying the massive pollution of this planet is good for anyone.
But it is a run away train driven by corporations which are 51% of the world's largest economies, they run the show, there is no stopping them.

Who is "We" hard drive? ATS?
What effect has this forum had on anything?
Real scientists have no effect on the amount of chemicals in our environment.
Reactionary forum posters have even less say in the matter.
Hell the President just said the Navy is exempt from environmental laws.

Breast feeding in the United States isn't any safer than formula.
Woman store the chemicals they receive over a life time in their body fat,
they pass it on to children in their breast milk
This is documented.

You or a mod (who are just privileged forum users, not sacred fonts of knowledge) can say this or that chemical, but then you aren't paying attention to the 49,998 other chemicals that could be an issue.

Whats your solution?
Stop treating people with drugs and just let the corpses pile high?
Stop birth control?
Stop the use of plastics and cut down trees instead? (there is Hemp..oh but thats illegal)

I'm waiting for some cracker to come and say "Its gods will" or "Pray and it will go away" or quote scripture that says "And the lord said in the end times precocious puberty would be abundant."

That fact is that you are being blind to precocious puberty that existed for centuries before any of these chemicals were even dreamed of.

Your assumptions that all of this is directly related to only one or two causes is a false premise.

There are environmental stress factors involved, there are genetic abnormalities, there is glandular damage, there is obesity, there is teen pregnancies, there are old women giving birth now more often, the entire food chain from fish eggs to buffalo is contaminated, there is the issue of 50,000 chemicals.

On the case of old women and birth, if a 24 year old has toxic breast milk, what do you think a 40 year old has, yeah double the toxic breast milk.

My daughter had plenty of milk, most likely dosed with hormones and she drank from plastic bottles and cups. She has no sign of puberty.

So what is your explanation for the majority percentage of people simply never seeing the effects you are saying are definitely coming from the sources you claim they are coming from?

Again what is your solution?
Besides ranting on ATS?

Europe is wise enough to ban many chemicals, but the USA still uses them, and ships them off to third world countries. The best solution for now is to move to Europe, oh but not Britain since their drinking water has abundant anti-psychotic medicines in it.
Not Spain, their water has abundant coc aine.
The list of "not" keeps going.

The hormones they inject into cows, so that they can produce more milk, enters our bodies too, anytime we drink that milk.

It's no longer true that "milk does a body good." Real natural milk used to expire a day or two after it was made, but these days, you can keep milk for 3 weeks before it expires, because of all the chemicals they put in it.

Originally posted by harddrive21

Girls Age 3 Hitting Puberty : Hormones In Food and Water to Blame

www.thesun.co.uk

GIRLS are starting to hit puberty at the age of THREE.

Shocked doctors blame hormones in food and water for some British toddlers showing signs of breast growth.

Other pre-school youngsters even experience periods that normally start in their teens – and have temper tantrums just like adolescents.

The phenomenon is feared to have become more common since the 1990s – with doctors having to give increasing numbers of tots jabs to keep puberty at bay.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Hide the pedophiles. Goddamn xD

I am in the US and just this year found my daughter menstrating and going through puberty at 6. She was brought to a major Children's hospital and the endocrinologist there is thinking it may have something to do with hormones in food. She has been diagnosed with McCune Albright Syndrome and tests have set her maturation for the reproductive system at 14 and climbing. She now takes medication to block estrogen production, but it can only slow the progression down. It is a shame that milk and meat producers would put so much on the line for increased profits.

Originally posted by SR

Originally posted by andy1033
Remember guys, the sun is a tabloid, but if true, do not know what to say.

This is true sensationlist claims accurate or inaccurate are printed in 'The Sun' on a day to day basis just to sell the paper with no regard for the readers factual faculties .

Factual faculties?

What are these? I know that humans have "reasoning faculties" but *factual faculties*????

Some people just crack me up.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
The hormones they inject into cows, so that they can produce more milk, enters our bodies too, anytime we drink that milk.

It's no longer true that "milk does a body good." Real natural milk used to expire a day or two after it was made, but these days, you can keep milk for 3 weeks before it expires, because of all the chemicals they put in it.

Ok... first off milk doesn't have an increased shelf life because of chemicals.


Milk has an increased shelf life because of Pasteurization. Which I'm not advocating for, just sayin that it's not because of Chemicals. You really should help to deny ignorance.


And... more and more dairies are moving away from accepting cows treated with hormones. Mayfield here in GA has started doing that.

Now personally I drink Organic milk, and love it. Having some in my coffee right now.

[edit on 21-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Going backwards isn't evolution.

[edit on 21-12-2008 by HunkaHunka]