BETTY ONG / FLIGHT 11 Was A Mock Hijacking Exercise.

reply to post by Boone 870


Then why wasn't the alleged caller hacking, choking and acting in pain from being burned by mace/tear gas? Why were no other sounds heard from alleged passengers alleged to be hit with mace?

reply to post by deltaboy


Do you know they do not stay in the area very long for obvious reasons, and they are not trying to spray everyone else away coming to gawk? They are not spraying it in confined areas.

Do you understand it? Because you do not write as if you do.

reply to post by weedwhacker


When did they start doing all those security checks prior to 9/11/2001? They were not doing them up to 1997 at any airports I was in. I was in quite a few up until that date.

reply to post by deltaboy


Pepper spray and mace are not the same product. Mace is tear gas. Pepper spray is not.

reply to post by Boone 870


If the cabin crew has not a clue to what is actually going on, what makes you think any alleged hijackers took any alleged keys off any alleged cabin crew members?

reply to post by Boone 870


Well, perhaps it is just one more significant detail that does not fit well into the "official" reports of severe inconsistences is why. Did you never question any of those inconsistencies at all? If not, why not?

reply to post by OrionStars

Then why wasn't the alleged caller hacking, choking and acting in pain from being burned by mace/tear gas? Why were no other sounds heard from alleged passengers alleged to be hit with mace?

You seem to know everything that there is to know about mace, so you will have to explain it to me or maybe because she was at the rear of the aircraft and the mace was sprayed in first-class.

Maybe their voices could not have been picked up by the receiver on the air phone. What is your opinion, do you think the air phones were designed to pick up voices 60 to 70 feet away?

reply to post by Boone 870


I hear you.

If this audio clip is to be believed no one can get into the flight deck. (half way through the tape). Not only are they not getting info from up front, but they are not able to enter.

So, are we to believe that it was forced open in such a manner that it was lockable again? Or was there a big guy with his shoulder against it?

If it was opened by key how do the "terrorists" know about one, where it was, or which one it was on an attendants person or stowed coat?

reply to post by OrionStars
Yes I have a questioned them.

I've changed my mind on a couple of things as a matter of fact. I used to think that the hijackers killed or disabled both pilots within seconds of entering the cockpit. I don't believe that any more.

reply to post by scrapple


I can't say for sure. Some of the hijackers had taken as many as seven transcontinental flights in the weeks leading up to September 11. That could have given them a chance to learn were the keys were.

reply to post by Boone 870


Mace is tear gas. Do you know anything about tear gas, besides it can bring tears to the eyes and loud piercing screams to the ears?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
The B767 door opens forward, into the cockpit. There is an 8 inch, or so, step down. The B757 door opens aft, there is an 8 inch, or so, step up. Really, you can look this stuff up at Boeing, it's not top secret.

WW,

This is not intended to question your integ. just looking for clarification. This site mentions that you step UP with a door opening into the 767 CP. This is reverse of your statement. I do not doubt that the 767 door opens into the CP, but simply a heads up on the discrep.

One difference is that one steps up to enter the 767's flightdeck and steps down to enter the 757's flightdeck...

I keep tripping on those damn steps! It's really embarrassing when I visit the cockpit and try to act all professional and then take a header into the cockpit. I also manage to hit my head on the overhead panel, which also adds to my embarassment.

-Neil, Boeing designed the cockpit door so you wouldn't embarrass yourself. Pull the door open = gives you time to see the step down. Push the door and your foot hits the step up before you trip.


- Neil Harrison

www.airliners.net...

[edit on 14-1-2008 by scrapple]

[edit on 14-1-2008 by scrapple]

reply to post by Boone 870


If anyone got hit with mace, there would be no way anyone on the receiving end of a call would not know it.

reply to post by OrionStars


I've been exposed to Mace twice. The first time was a direct shot to my face from 5 feet away. Extremely unpleasant.

The second time was from 20 feet away and it was uncomfortable. I did not choke, scream, or cough.

Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by scrapple

 

I can't say for sure. Some of the hijackers had taken as many as seven transcontinental flights in the weeks leading up to September 11. That could have given them a chance to learn were the keys were.

Hmm, Maybe if they were flying fist class.

I never heard of that one, but multiple first class transcons ( probably on fake passports) might jeopardizes the big operation -no?

Exactly where is all that room to accomodate a cockpit door opening to the insider of a 757 or 767?:


www.airliners.net...

If someone opens a cockpit door from the outside, and someone has a shoulder against it on the inside, the one on the inside will be sprawled on the floor if someone opens the door from the outside.

reply to post by Boone 870


Then what are you asking me for if you experience it? I already explained what it was before you asked.

reply to post by Boone 870


Then you must be an extreme exception to the rule of effects from mace/tear gas:

police.berkeley.edu...

"Physical Effects - Mace

Mace has six physiological effects that may be experienced:
• Central Nervous System: headache, dizziness, and
extreme general discomfort.
• Chest: tight feeling in upper respiratory system,
coughing.
• Eyes: tearing and burning.
• Mouth: accelerated secretion of saliva.
• Nose: discharge, burning, irritation.
• Skin: burning and stinging feeling on surface nerve
endings on the face."

If anyone would know about mace, it would be those on Berkley campus having experienced it during 60s and writing about it later.

reply to post by OrionStars


That cockpit photo does say something,

Its going to be difficult to get a stabbed man (menx2) out of their flight seats if the perps are sitting/standing behind them in the jump seat space.

Did the suspected perps drag pilots up over the center consol / controls? Or just one, propping him in the jump seat? Dont forget the second 'terrorist' with shoulder against the door inside the cockpit.

No wonder the inflight phones were not being answered.

reply to post by scrapple


They were in first class. The 9/11 Commission talks about the pre-9/11 flights.