BETTY ONG / FLIGHT 11 Was A Mock Hijacking Exercise., page 3

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reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:32 PM by OrionStars

If they tried to jam 7 or 8 adult people into a 767 cockpit, plus, shut and/or lock the door, they could not pump enough oxygen in fast enough, to keep anyone awake breathing in primarily their own and everyone else's exhaled CO2. Without oxygen supply, it gets stuffy in small, confined areas very quickly. Try sitting in a small closet with only the crack under the door for oxygen supply to test it out.

They would be suffocating one another.That means no pilot could possibly get out of any cockpit seat either. Did they spray the mace before or after all the crew was tossed out, and then shut and locked the cockpit door? Now 5 people are squeezed into that small cockpit instead, probably with mace having streamed in when sprayed.

Surely part of the alleged hijakers were not sitting in the middle of all that alleged mace that allegedly stayed confined to the first class section. Nor were they back with the other passengers, or alleged Betty Ong would never have made any alleged 20 to 25 minute phone call. Mace will linger and spread very rapidly. Can a 767 effectively handle mace and how quickly can it handle mace if it can? Which I seriously doubt it can.

No one in the background was reacting to any mace. What type of mace was it? There should be piercing screaming if people are hit with mace. Alleged Betty Ong's voice would not be heard for all the screaming from mace victims.

Where would 3R jumpseat be? Coach? Or another section?

All done with box cutters and mace as weapons. That is truly amazing. Hijackers would be stupid to spray mace in first class and open the door of the cockpit, and then shut themselves in all that mace coming in from first class. First, they have to take the time to throw everyone out. That means mace streaming into that cockpit.

For those who are unaware of what mace is. It is tear gas, and spreads very quickly. It can severely burn when it hits the skin, eyes and lungs. The ventilation system cannot cleanse mace. It takes the wide open air to get rid of mace effect.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:35 PM by OrionStars

reply to post by spitefulgod

There is no certifiable proof any alleged people name on any alleged planes have died. That has been the point in many discussions in this forum. We do not know what happened to any of those alleged named people. That is also what we want to know. The answers lie with the Bush administration. They are not being honest with any of us and never have been.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:35 PM by krill

seemed a awful lot like she was reading a script to me, lack of emotion, lack of confusion and worry, it all seems just a bit to well performed .

and the oscar goes too....

starred and flagged keep up the good research ivan im realy beggining to love your threads.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:41 PM by IvanZana

"S/he confirmed that the pilot gave them permission to make one call while they were on the plane. S/he remembers it as being while they were still in the air while her initial letter says that it was after they landed. Either there were 2 calls allowed, their memory (5 years later) differs from what happened, or s/he was incorrect in the initial letter. Remember that s/he wasn't, at the time, writing for posterity but to reassure family and friends. S/he doesn't remember what time s/he was able to make a call(s) that was but for reason thinks it was closer to 1000. It was around the time the first tower collapsed. That was one piece of the information they got while still in the air. They were later able to make more calls after they had landed in Cleveland.
They were told to make one call but people might have snuck more. S/he remembers thinking that it was a very inappropriate joke when someone mentioned one of the WTC towers collapsing."

256.com...

What do you think some of those calls sounded like?

"mom, i think we are being hijacked, bomb on board"

or

"Hi, this is the captain, please remained seat,we have a bomb on board we will be landing at the nearest airpost"

can you imagine the calls after that one?

"Mom, Mom, this is Ivan Zana, we are being hijacked, you do believe me dont you?"

The pilot had radioed that there was suspicious activity in the cabin since one of the passengers was speaking urgently on his cellphone and ignored repeated flight attendant requests to stop using his cell phone while in flight. Also, there was an irregularity in the passenger manifest because there were two people [with the same middle eastern name] who were listed but only one aboard.

.... Let's Roll.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:45 PM by eyewitness86

Betty Ong was too calm and reading obviously from a prepared script. In addition, she is relaying info from the front of the plane to the back..you have to understand this point: Betty says a lot of things. She has seen NONE of them herself. She is repeating what she is being told is happening up front. I guarantee you that the posters here that are saying Betty was just being professional have never listened to the tape at all. They could not have and still think that was normal conversation, even under the circumstances.

Betty says " WE cannot breath " in business class ', as if she herself were experiencing it. She was not. She was repeating word for word a relayed message " We cannot breath "..see?Now, as another poster observed, there is NO sounds of choking, coughing, or any raised voices of alarm or panic or prayer..it is unnaturally quiet for a plane under the threat of death for all. No one really was unable to breath..that was on the script. there were no highjackers storming the cockpits:

No one saw any cockpit entries, and the stew in the front of the plane was as puzzled as Betty was about whether or not a highjacking was taking place!! They were unsure because no one saw anything resembling a takeover. there was no gas, and no pilot radioed even one second of alarm, as if the highjackers were super fast and super lucky, four times in a row...these odds are too far out. No way possible.

This whole mystery will unravel along these lines someday:

The cockpit takeovers were impossible under the evidence given. The government will not even discuss the takeovers.

The Norman Mineta testimony: All one has to do is get the ' young officer ' before congress under oath.

there are more, but you get the idea.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:49 PM by billybob

"the two gents" she says, describing the hijackers who just stabbed someone, gassed first class, and then locked themselves in the cockpit.

and, as pointed out, the guy on the phone knows there are 2 men, when he hasn't yet been told.

"flight 12" she says, and then repeats it, later to change it to , "no, flight 11".

this audio reeks of bad acting and scripting. cable television would laugh it off the airwaves.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:54 PM by IvanZana

New theory.

Mabey The four planes involved in 911 were in the middle of a mock hijacking exercise amalgamating all federeal and local authorities and Bin laden and the Terrorists electronically hijacked the planes and fooled the U.S defenses because everyone thought it was all part of the exercise.

I wouldnt put it past those extremists to have resources to pull it off.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:54 PM by IvanZana

dbl post

[edit on 14-1-2008 by IvanZana]

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 01:55 PM by IvanZana

What caught me was this part:

NYDIA GONZALEZ: Okay. It seems like the passengers in coach might not be aware of what�s going right now.
MALE VOICE: These two passengers were from first class?

The AA officer asks Nydia about 2 passengers. At that point, she (Nydia) hadn't mentioned anything about 2 passengers .

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 02:20 PM by TheoOne

Sounds like remote-controlled aircraft.

It's possible that the planes hit the towers were remote-controlled, perhaps.

But again, I don't know.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 02:27 PM by smans

Maybe there were no pilots to begin with.
The assailants go into the empty caBin?
Make sense?

[edit on 14-1-2008 by smans]

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 02:31 PM by rhynouk

Controlled planes aren't out of the possiblity i wouldn't think,the ones we see today are not quite ready but just imagine what the higher up's have.
The whole of 9/11 could have been caused by something that we would never ever thought of.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 02:49 PM by scrapple

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 02:56 PM by OrionStars

reply to post by TheoOne

If people start searching the Internet for pictures of wall holes, they are going to find the double steel walls are too clean cut and unbent to be an outside impact against the walls by anything with weight and mass. Try this one with or without a woman standing there waving.

www.whatreallyhappened.com...

Double steel walls, appearing to be bent, are bent to the outside not the inside, if bent at all. That is the same hole picture, without any woman, across the Internet.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 02:59 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by OrionStars

Orion, um....I think I can speak to something you said about 'cramming 7 or 8 people into a B767 cockpit' and it getting stuffy. You see, I actually used to fly the airplanes...and the B757, MD-8-, B737, DC-10 B727 and A-300. 22 years with a major US airline, so I believe I have a little bit of credibility.

8 in a B767 would be pretty cramped, surely. However, 4 or even 5 isn't that bad. (This assumes that we're all getting along, and not trying to cut the throats of the pilots with boxcutters...)

In addition to the Caption and First Officer seats there are two other jumpseats, one right behind the Captain (where the FAA or his designee will sit when conducting in flight checks of the Captain since it provides a very good view of the forward instrument panel) and the other is starboard. Even with four people up there, in each seat, there is enough space on the floor for one more, plus one could stand upright at the threshold.

Another thing...it would definately NOT get stuffy!! The airflow from the number 1 A/C Pack is prioritized to the Flight Deck, not only to ensure the freshest air for the pilots, but also to provide sufficient cooling for all of the Avionics. Those CRTs get pretty warm...in fact, if you looked at schematics from Boeing you could learn that for yourself. On the ground there are electrics fans that will operate, then they automatically shut off in flight based on landing gear position (up or down), and temp sensors in the ducting, and the cooling relies on the outflow from the pressurization system. IN fact, one of the many systems we have to learn about, besides fuel and electrical and power plant...is the E&E cooling system (E&E is Boeing-talk for Electronic and Equipment, the magic stuff below the cockpit as well) since it is actually fairly complicated, though it operates mostly by itself unless there is a malfunction that requires Pilot action. We have the yellow light, 'Equip OVHT', with a chime...and switches to select 'Override' if needed...there is a whole page devoted to our QRH (Quick Refence Handbook) checklist just for equipment cooling.

I guess the point of this is: You must understand the reality of an airplane before talking about it as if you know, just from 'looking in' whilst boarding!

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 03:02 PM by OrionStars

reply to post by scrapple

Replace that picture with both of W's grandfathers standing behind the chairs. Replace the seated men with Hitler and Hess. That would not be only an accurate photo but true as well.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 03:09 PM by weedwhacker

reply to post by weedwhacker

OK,

I originally came to this thread to say something else, but got a little sidetracked (it's all about disclosure and denying ignorance, right?).

My initial thinking was, since Ms. Betty Ong's name was put into the title, doesn't it seem to anyone a little callous to be discussing her, and all the other victims, in a way that could be perceived as hurtful if her family were to read it?

Just thinking some sensitivity should be employed...

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 03:18 PM by OrionStars

reply to post by weedwhacker

With all due respect writing and asking the following:

So are you telling us that many people would not sitting or standing on one another in the cockpit of a 767? If not, what you are telling us? They certainly never looked that big to me when I passed by them on the way to being seated in a 767.

A struggle is going to take place in that confined area? Are one or two people with box cutters going to overpower two people or more in a 767 cockpit? They certainly are not going to be macing them and staying in the cockpit with them. Pilots are instructed to never give up their planes unless they become completely incapacitated. Takes time to remove dead bodies from cramped seats. How long did it take to throw all that crew out into first class?

Since you say you have flown, are you going to tell us that any inexperienced person, with commercial jetliners, could just take over the controls and be expert pilots, with manuevers only expert military pilots might be able to make? If so, how? By flight simulator play? Or some other way?

I have been on commercial jetliners. They can get exceptionally stuffy if fillled with enough people - almost or fully booked flight. It was worse when people were allowed to smoke on flights. We normally opened the air vents which put in cold air but was not really ventilating anything. That was just to stay awake and nothing more. The cockpit is even worse for confinement with an overload of people.

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 03:28 PM by scrapple

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by OrionStars

22 years with a major US airline, so I believe I have a little bit of credibility.

HI Weedwacker,

Could you help then inform us back of the bussers under what circumstances you would let someone other than the flight crew into the cockpit?

Thanks
Scrap

reply posted on 14-1-2008 @ 03:35 PM by eyewitness86

Originally posted by IvanZana
New theory.

Mabey The four planes involved in 911 were in the middle of a mock hijacking exercise amalgamating all federeal and local authorities and Bin laden and the Terrorists electronically hijacked the planes and fooled the U.S defenses because everyone thought it was all part of the exercise.

I wouldnt put it past those extremists to have resources to pull it off.

Nope, no way. How in the world would Osama and crew manage to ' electronically highjack ' the planes? The only people who can do that are the military and civilian corporate entities that developed it. Osama is a CIA asset and has been forever. He was not involved in the 9-11 events.

There are NO terrorists that attacked the USA. It was all an inside job by the Neocon / Israleli cabal that controls the highest echelons of the power structure in this nation. The electronic highjacking was very real; the planes were remotely taken for sure...no highjackers piloted any planes. But it was done by OUR guys..the supposed good guys, and not some terrorists group. Qui bono? WHO PROFITS? That is who did it.