Organs to be taken without consent

Originally posted by sean_uk
This has been planned for a few years now, by the Nanny State, and has been carefully constructed so as not to appear too radical & controversial; careful not to upset certain religions & beliefs; careful, because they need "LIVE" donors.

People who are in comas and on life-support systems will have there organs removed while they are still alive...


What utter garbage. Hardly worth even responding too, really.

BMA June 2000

"Each year many people die waiting for an organ transplant. At the same time, bodies are buried or cremated complete with organs that could have been used to save lives, not because the deceased objected to donation but simply because they never got around to carrying a donor card or informing their relatives of their wishes...”

[How ******* patronising!]

The plan begins:

Brainwash the Public

“Some of the changes proposed in this paper are likely to be controversial and need to be debated thoroughly before being implemented. Recognising the risk of alienating some sections of the public by appearing to move too quickly, the BMA nonetheless considers that there are good arguments for seeking change. Furthermore, it believes that with careful explanation, these proposals will win the support and backing of a majority of health professionals and the public.”


Wanted Dead or Alive

“The BMA would like to see a thorough review of the existing legislation and some changes to the existing organisational structure and established practice. In particular, we are calling for:

1. The introduction of a single, comprehensive, piece of legislation covering all aspects of organ donation - from both live and cadaveric donors:

- to provide a clear and unambiguous framework within which organ donation may take place;

- requiring that the most up to date guidelines are followed in determining death by brain stem tests before organs are removed;

- to remove the distinction between related and unrelated live altruistic donors. All live donations should be subject to the same rigorous assessment, either by ULTRA or some other mechanism, to ensure that the potential donor is acting voluntarily and free from pressure;

- to give legal authorisation to the use of invasive procedures, after death, to protect organs in the period leading up to the transplant in order to facilitate greater use of non-heartbeating donors; and

- to introduce a system of presumed consent… "

www.bma.org.uk


Like I said, I don't have anything against people who "choose" to donate, it is their choice. I have no respect for arrogant & ignorant "lumps of meat", who cannot understand that people have different beliefs to themselves and they have a choice on how they live their lives, and what happens to them when they die.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I got the impression that this thread was about FREEDOM & CHOICE, not a Pro-Life / Pro death debate.

People have NEVER debated about organ donating, like they do about abortion. Doners have always been in the minority because most people do not want to donate; all that BS about surveys saying 70% of people would donate... how many people did they survey? a few thousand?





[edit on 15-1-2008 by sean_uk]

reply to post by sean_uk


Care to address any of my points and questions instead of bitching on about a non-existent plan by the Government to harvest everyones organs for monetary gain?

Thought not, as it would expose you as a hypocrite and you wouldn't want that, would you.

Let's just hope you don't ever need a transplant then, shall we?

Stumason get over it, people want to exercise choice, you have no proof of what will happen to organ donations if they will be sold to the highest bidder or not and you are only looking at this from a totally selfish perspective.

reply to post by magicmushroom


I have no proof?

The burden of proof lays with muppets who think people will do this, not me.

And I hardly think me willing to give up my organs to help others after my death is selfish...

Withholding them for no other reason than "It's my choice" is selfish though.

And calling transplant patients Frankenstein and cannibals is totally out of order and sick.

I suppose you'll be making fun of other unfortunates soon. Lepers perhaps? Cancer patients (who also recieve transplants, I might add)?

Sometimes the human race sickens me.

reply to post by stumason

Care to address any of my points and questions instead of bitching on about a non-existent plan by the Government to harvest everyones organs for monetary gain?

You are totally off-topic; the OP started this thread out of concern for us poor Brits who are been stripped of our rights, even the right to make a simple decision as whether or not to donate our body parts - hence the Nanny State-ment.

biggie smalls

Organs to be taken without consent

A scheme to save patients with body parts from dead people...Rather sickening.

I am not concerned about the organ 'donation' so much as it will be mandatory for all people who have passed away, UNLESS they sign a waiver saying they do not want to donate.

This does not sound like a donation, more like a case of stolen organs.

I am not surprised to see this come from the UK nanny police state. We are on our way to the same kind of personal right infringement here in the US as well.

I chose not to donate my organs - yes, I actually took the time to think about it, and I decided not to volunteer. The Government "presumes" that because there is a lack of donors, it's because people are too ignorant to do it themselves, so they need Nanny to do it for them. This is typical of the CFR - I'm sure Mr Bean is an active member.

I am not scared of dying, and I know one day that my heart, lungs & liver... will stop functioning and then I'll die. I won't be looking for a new organ; waiting for somebody to die. Technology will do away with the need for human donors in the near future.

Man you greedy people can keep your organs . Im starting to think no one would want them anyway.

I agree with a post a few pages back .(maybe less)

If your not a registered donor . You should NOT be able to get an organ . Flat out . (Excepting family organs)

I assume those people who complain about their "rights being stripped" are fully aware you can not only opt out yourself, but your family can still opt you out after death, even if you did not...

Originally posted by stumason
I assume those people who complain about their "rights being stripped" are fully aware you can not only opt out yourself, but your family can still opt you out after death, even if you did not...

That's why I left you the link to BMA, so you can educate yourself. They are proposing to remove that OPTion, and...

"introduce a system of presumed consent, with safeguards, for adults which allows doctors the discretion not to proceed if the potential donor's wishes are not known and it is clear that the donation would cause major distress to a first degree relative or long-term partner."

Keywords "doctors discretion"

reply to post by sean_uk


You can read English, can't you?

What you just quoted was saying that the BMA are proposing (what they propose and what actually happens are two different things) to give doctors the option to not harvest, even if it was law to do so, in case of causing distress.

You can opt out for organ donation. So, it's just changing the system sothat there is a presumption that you'd like to donate your organs unless you opt out.

The organs are not taken without consent. I think that your heading is missleading.

reply to post by sean_uk


Sean
There are very very few BUPA or even private Hospitals in the UK that have the facilities or even surgeons for Heart, lung or even in some cases Kidney Transplants.Most are done by the NHS.
However those hospitals which DO have those facilities wont be allowed to charge for the organ they are 'putting in' they will only be allowed to charge their notrmal operating charges.
I repeat. The selling of Organs in the UK is illegal.

Well that clears that up dont it ?
No organ selling means nothing but good . Everyone can put there "jump to conclusion mats" away .

Sean I wonder if you would PM me with your name address and Blood type?
Im a regular blood donor and I would hate to think my blood might go to prolong your life, thereby going against your wishes.

reply to post by realyweely


Yes, the selling of organs in UK is illegal. The Private Hospitals would receive "expenses".

Stumason, so you can have rights but I cannot is that it, and I dont recollect calling anyone names or making fun of persons who may need organ transplants. Your selfish in that because in your opinion everyone should donate their organs therefore removing choice from an individual.

Maybe you want to sign up to the brain dead nanny state but I dont, this planet is overpopulated as it is with millions dying through the lack of basic neccesities and yet to want to rob people of their rights and their bodies. People like you make me sick you think of yourself and stuff everyone else if they dont agree with you or your views.

reply to post by biggie smalls


I think some posters got the idea that it will not be a matter of choice.

Your organs will be taken without consent if you have not filled out the proper paperwork.

That sounds like a tyrannical government telling me I have to do something and the only way for it not to happen is if I sign a waiver letting them know I do not want to donate.

I am all for donation, I think folks are misconstruing this.

Its about choice though.

As others have said, my body, my choice.

The government does not have the right to tell me what I put in my body, nor do they have the right to take things out without my permission.

I just thank God I don't live in the UK. Sorry Steve although I wouldn't be surprised this sort of thing moving over here to the states fairly soon with Hilldog on deck.

I don't know why the PM would do this. I mean does he know within the next 10 - 15 years we will be able to 'print' organs ?

to have an opt out system instead of an opt in system does mean that the gov't is claiming your body after death...they only way you can get it back it to fill out a form requesting it back, otherwise, it is theirs to take whatever they want, or need, whatever.
organ donation would no longer be a donation, it would be the default....what is expected. of course, you may if you like, go against the grain, and fill out these papers, here, sign here, and here and here, oh, ya, by the way, that will be $100 filing fee, and there ya go, your body is now yours again!!!

when the law is passed, the body, it's organs, becomes society's upon your death....it will remain so until you sign some papers, then they will give it back to you.....THEY ARE claiming your dead body as their property, but then, they are being nice and offering it back to you, if you do this or that.....and they accept what you did. of course, in a few years....they might not accept your reasons anymore, and well, they still have the claim on your body, they just have decided not to be as nice.


[edit on 16-1-2008 by dawnstar]

Biggie, what people like Stumason dont realizse that in the UK there are roughly half a million deaths each year from all causes if only 10% of those have their organs removed that means there will be a massive surplus of organs for sale to the highest bidder.

And that my firend is what its all about, making money, how can the NHS generate an income well there is your answer organ transplants are big bucks so under the guise of its to help save life money will be made and plenty of it.

A kidney saved my life, allowed me to help challenged children and teenagers with learning disabilities and drug problems, allows me to continue writing and illustrating...

For those who are uneducated in the process of organ removal...there is no mutilation, they do it and the body is left in great condition...besides, a dead body is a dead body...

It's definitely NOT like some low budget Hollywood B movie.

Besides, if you live under the rules of a religion that does not let the mummy cross over without it's elaborately contained organs, well then i guess Anubis won't be able to weigh your heart and ya don't get to cross over into the Afterlife with Osiris!