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Organs to be taken without consent

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posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 


I agree with you Fred this a matter of personal choice not government choice.

BTW I am an organ donor by choice I have no problem with been a donor at all, but I see no reason why Government should force that choice on others.




posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by _Phoenix_
It just worries me for some reason, it's a scary thought, a feeling of whats next? if this goes through what else is he planning. I know it sounds like it may be a good idea, but I don't trust many politicians.


It should worry you - and everyone else. Trust me, you don't want any government deciding if you get to live or die.

A previous poster asked how long before they start putting pressure on someone's family to agree to letting them die, just because they might be a tissue match?

A very slippery slope being set up here, IMO.


[edit on 1/14/2008 by centurion1211]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


I think that is the majorities point here. Make me opt in. Rather than forcing this issue, set up a national database with an 1-800 number. People can chose to fill out the form opting in and its a matter of a phone call to check.

People seem to be under the conception that it is a decision that need to made that instant. The patient must still be alive mind you for organs to be viable. Brain dead or no hope of recovery yes, but the body must still be kept alive (even if on total life support) to donate organs.

They have time to make these calls. and consult with the family.



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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Good idea an 800 # then anyone can call and register you lol ..
That seems to open about the same type of debate here . Then anyone can decide . Maybe even cause they need the organ .


[Edited in a few minutes later.] I think that would work better the other way round wouldn't ya say? Especially with identity theft on the rise.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by Mindless]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Mindless
It could (dog forbid) be argued that politicians are people too (omg i cant believe i typed that ) j/k

So who do you think should decide this type of stuff?

Individual people decide for themselves, no vote of majority etc, just you own individual choice, simple.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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So you want to ask dead people about there beliefs on organ donation eh ?

Like i said tho i support a vote on it to see which way it goes before making a decision .
Its easier for a living person to opt-out than a dead guy to opt-in .

Most of these things are not even though about till its too late .



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by Mindless
Good idea an 800 # then anyone can call and register you lol ..
That seems to open about the same type of debate here . Then anyone can decide .


This would simply be a registry of those willing to donate. Just an idea mind you, obviously there would be many issues needed to be worked out.

The bottom line though as I have said is that there is no reason that consent should be presumed. Its not like a decison to do CPR or give life saving fluids etc. There is time to find out exactly what the person wants. At the very least several hours. More often than not (As I explained in the 4th post of this thread) the "donor" can wait as long as 24 hours to have his organs harvested. It can take that long to get all of the potential recipeints lines up adn ready and tissue typing done etc.



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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Well i guess i just hope these people get the organs they need .

But your point is moot till abortion and prostitution is legal . Sorry
This proves you have no right to your body at all alive why when you die would you all the sudden get these rights?



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by Mindless
So you want to ask dead people about there beliefs on organ donation eh ?

Like i said tho i support a vote on it to see which way it goes before making a decision .
Its easier for a living person to opt-out than a dead guy to opt-in .

Most of these things are not even though about till its too late .

A vote like that wouldn't be right, if the majority votes yes, the remaning (example) 30-40% would still have their free will taken away from them, they will be dis-respected, their family will be dis-respected, take away free will and respect and you have a bad world. For those that voted yes they wouldn't have had their free will taken away yet, but it will come because the goverment now knows that they can get away with it.

I recommend spending more money to spread education to people on the matter, get more people thinking about it, get them to make an idividual, free will choice.



[edit on 14-1-2008 by _Phoenix_]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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whats the system now?
in the states you are asked if you want to be a donor when you get your drivers license...it is pretty simple. a yes or no answer.

can the uk do this as well? nice and easy.



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by Boondock78
 


I think that already exists.



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:43 PM
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reply to post by _Phoenix_
 


You did see the opt-out option right? Also who told you you have rights to your body ?. This amuses me more than anything .


[added a ?]

[edit on 14-1-2008 by Mindless]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
whats the system now?
in the states you are asked if you want to be a donor when you get your drivers license...it is pretty simple. a yes or no answer.


Despite this they still consult the family before harvesting in the majority of cases



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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I believe that the reason some of these people are on these lists for so long, is not just because of a lack of donors, but because of the conditions neccasary(sp) for their own bodies. rare blood types, and other things can create a smaller pool for donations. Secondly, Previous posters had it right when they pointed out the small window of time that one can viably donate organs. Most deaths do not happen on an operating table. They happen BEFORE most people get to the hospital. And keep in mind, when someone might be able to make a donation, they have to run all sorts of tests to make sure these organs can be used. So we are talking about a very small number of people that die! (meaning that they meet these requirements)
What does that mean? well, in a socialized healthcare system, corruption is inherrent due to the lack of free-market oppurtunity. In a free market system, there could be a heavy fine and corrective system, however the bribes would eventually get to someone.
People will abuse the system. I don't want to sign myself up for Organ donation. I don't want someone rushing me off to my death because I have a rare blood type and you get a bonus for my heart and liver. If I have a terminal illness, or go into a brain dead state, the two best cases for transplant due to the prep time, I will gladly sign over myu organs, and have instructed my family in the event of an accident to make the decision for me.
Just because the British feel that they now take care of you with the socialized health care, they feel like it's theirs to take when they want it.
And I know what socialized health care is like, I'm a veteran who uses the VA health care system.
Realize that until God takes me, this is the only ride I got!
And also, I am signed up for cremation, exactly 3 days after my last heartbeat. If they can take organs once all moves are made to ressuscitate me have failed, then they are yours. (i.e. ligaments)
X-Ps I would gladly give up my extra kidney while I am still alive.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by jasonjnelson]



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 04:01 PM
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Grrr, now while i totally sympathise with the innitial sentiments, i cannot accept that people should have to opt out as apposed to opting in...

Why dont they have a scheme that says if you are prepared to accept donor offers if you ever happen to need them, then you should have to subscribe to being a donor when you pass on...

That to me seems a little fairer. And dont people get a little fed up with this having to opt out scenareo. I seem to remember the Red Cross having this issue a while back with its members recieving unsoliceted mail...

Well, so much for debate eh!



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by Mindless


You did see the opt-out option right? Also who told you you have rights to your body ?. This amuses me more than anything .


[added a ?]

[edit on 14-1-2008 by Mindless]

Your starting to scare me now.



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
I'll bet the records of a lot of people on the "opt-out" list will get lost. And how would this affect foreigners? Here in the US, what happens if you die out of state? "Well gee, we chopped up your loved one's body because we couldn't acces the records from your home state. We didn't want the organs to go to waste waiting for you to get here."

But on the other hand, I guess we're lucky they're not doing that here already anyway. After all, we are the private property (in the most literal sense and all joking aside) of the international bankers who were the receivers of the US bankruptcy in 1933. Ever wonder why its illegal to commit suicide? Because you are a slave.

[edit on 1/14/0808 by jackinthebox]


I've always liked your posts since they seem to make a lot of sense (in that, you explain the subject very well). I gotta admit though, I've always found it funny that it would be "illegal" to commit suicide. Yes, "supposedly" belong to the banks (in paper only though. I'm sure there's a way to escape that fate, we just haven' figured it out.) but what are they gonna do if I commit suicide? sue me? lol!



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by sty
 


Good point. I'm not objecting to organs being donated, whether consentual or not, but I'm with you on the point of where this could lead. I read an article somewhere about funeral homes who take organs from bodies and sell them for profit. As you said, this could lead to mysterious deaths in hospitals and ambulances, etc.

A person in my town had a crack coc aine induced stroke. The ambulance took him to some garage. and waited for him to die. Were they after his organs because they assumed he was a homeless, druggie and that no one would miss him? Makes me wonder.



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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If I died, I'd want my organs to be taken so they could possibly save someone's life.

I can't say I agree with them being taken without the "owners" consent though.

I believe I'm too young to put myself on the organ donor list though
.

-Will



posted on Jan, 14 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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The British People should be wary, most of us know that this government cannot be trusted, they will sell anything.
Remember the proposal for a 'Common Market', equal trading of goods and produce? look what it turned into without our consent.
As an inducement, we were promised Refrenda on all seious issues in future, we are still waiting.
There is no reason to believe that this is not the thin end of a very thick wedge.
Regards,
Horsegiver.



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