Organs to be taken without consent

Organs to be taken without consent

www.telegraph.co.uk[/u rl]

Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, the Prime Minister says that such a facility would save thousands of lives and that he hopes such a system can start this year.
The proposals would mean consent for organ donation after death would be automatically presumed, unless individuals had opted out of the national register or family members objected.
But patients' groups said that they were "totally opposed" to Mr Brown's plan, saying that it would take away patients' rights over their own bodies.

(visit the link for the full news article)


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[edit on 1/13/2008 by biggie smalls]

Mod Edit: Fixed link

[edit on 1/13/08 by FredT]

A scheme to save patients with body parts from dead people...Rather sickening.

I am not concerned about the organ 'donation' so much as it will be mandatory for all people who have passed away, UNLESS they sign a waiver saying they do not want to donate.

This does not sound like a donation, more like a case of stolen organs.

I am not surprised to see this come from the UK nanny police state. We are on our way to the same kind of personal right infringement here in the US as well.

Patients' groups said that they were appalled by Mr Brown's intervention. "They call it presumed consent, but it is no consent at all," said Joyce Robin, from the watchdog Patient Concern. "They are relying on inertia and ignorance to get the results that they want." She said that the Government had made little effort to get people to register to give up organs after death. "Where is the big media campaign, where are the leaflets? Why, when I go to see my GP, doesn't he ask me about organ donation? These are the things they should be doing - not taking away our right to decide what happens to our bodies."

Link
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 1/13/2008 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
This does not sound like a donation, more like a case of stolen organs.

Tell that to the Prime Minister.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

A scheme to save patients with body parts from dead people...Rather sickening.

Thats actually a common misconception actually. When organs are donated the person is still technicaly "alive" in the sence that th heart is still functioning etc. In most cases (at least here in the States) after a determination of brain death is made, and the consent to donate is given, the body is kept going to allow for tissue typing, finding recipients etc.

Been there, dont that, myself in the Peditaric ICU. We also will leave immediatly and pick up recipients and fly them back to our hospital to recieve the organ.

Once the body is dead, organs are no longer viable for donation. I think that tendons and like can still be taken but major organs are done.


That being said I have issues with this plan. Even here in the US if a trauma victem has the donor button marked on thier drivers licens, the family is still consulted.

I'll bet the records of a lot of people on the "opt-out" list will get lost. And how would this affect foreigners? Here in the US, what happens if you die out of state? "Well gee, we chopped up your loved one's body because we couldn't acces the records from your home state. We didn't want the organs to go to waste waiting for you to get here."

But on the other hand, I guess we're lucky they're not doing that here already anyway. After all, we are the private property (in the most literal sense and all joking aside) of the international bankers who were the receivers of the US bankruptcy in 1933. Ever wonder why its illegal to commit suicide? Because you are a slave.

[edit on 1/14/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by biggie smalls

"A scheme to save patients with body parts from dead people...Rather sickening."



Unless it's your loved one who is hanging on to life waiting for a transplant.


[edit on 07/21/06 by Fang]

And what of people who's religious beliefs contradict this policy, but who's family isn't available and records don't indicate one way or the other?

This seems like a violation of religious freedom and privacy.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

A scheme to save patients with body parts from dead people...Rather sickening.

Do you know anything at all or are you one of these fundy, bible belters whose campaigning against it due to ignorance of the matter? My younger brother was saved by a kidney transplant, but thousands die yearly because people don't bother to register for donation. It's not that people don't want to do it, they just never get round to it.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I am not concerned about the organ 'donation' so much as it will be mandatory for all people who have passed away, UNLESS they sign a waiver saying they do not want to donate.

So, what on earth do they need with their organs, once dead? I think it is pathertic some people get funny about this when the donors are DEAD.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
This does not sound like a donation, more like a case of stolen organs.

How selfish an outlook.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I am not surprised to see this come from the UK nanny police state. We are on our way to the same kind of personal right infringement here in the US as well.

Feel free to visit this thread with regards to your woefully piss poor perception of the UK:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Rasobasi420


I would assume that any 'religious' person who wanted to take their organs to their grave would make sure they opted out of the scheme. (I'm not sure how many religions would take exception to this.) I find it the height of hypocrisy for anyone to invoke 'religion' as an objection to this proposal. Of course individuals have rights. They also have duties and obligations to their fellow citizens. This proposal doesn't prevent anyone being selfish or oblige them to help others who are suffering. They just have to sign on to a central data base, carry a card or make sure their friends and relations know how they feel.

I know some religions object to receiving transplants, but I don't know of any that refuse donating organs.

I wonder how tempting it will be to cause the premature death of the poor, or homeless, or disabled....just to have the organs for those other, more important citizens in society.
How many family members will be pressured to pull the plug before they are ready? If my heart is beating, I am alive....so, no, society doesn't have the right to my organs just yet!! Unless, of course, I chose beforehand to give up my pathetic existance for someone else.

I got a feeling that unless there's close scrutiny of this, it will lead to some pretty gross abuses, since well, it's all too natural for humans to place far more value on a select few people, while seeing so many others as more in the line of liabilities. Would a doctor be willing to end your life before your time, to save his precious prince?

by the way, I've heard of people refusing to allow the autopsy of their loved ones based on religious believes. if they object to an autopsy to find out why you died, I'm sure they would object to having the organs swiped?

[edit on 14-1-2008 by dawnstar]

Whilst I agree that organ donation is a good thing, the distrust of the government I have makes me wonder who'll be making money off this scheme.
Will all the harvested organs be used by the NHS for patients here in the UK or will they be sold to higher bidders / private medical establishments for profit?

Unfortunately, the cynical side of me says they'll start selling organs to bidders while some poor bugger on an NHS list sits at deaths door waiting for a replacement part.

reply to post by stumason


Hasidic Jews believe that all parts of a person, to the last drop of blood, need to be buried with the dead. This was what i had in mind when I made the statement.


My next question is, how far does this go into scientific research? Could this law apply to agencies using organs for experimental purposes?

The list for transplants is really small, but the problem is no one actually bothers to sign up for donation. No one will "make money" as nearly all transplants in the UK are done on the NHS, seeing as it is costly for both the operation and the lifetime of aftercare needed.

I find it really depressing that some people in this thread appear to be cynical to the extreme or just plain ignorant about transplantation.

If someone rejects the idea of donation based on religion, then I personally regard them as backward, subhuman animals. Being able to help many others live after your death is bound to earn you more brownie points from whatever pathetic God you believe in than being buried with all your squishy bits for them to rot.

It just worries me for some reason, it's a scary thought, a feeling of whats next? if this goes through what else is he planning. I know it sounds like it may be a good idea, but I don't trust many politicians.

reply to post by stumason


Thanks, you've just convinced me to retract my standing as an organ donor.

i will never agree with this legislation . Why? because this would open doors for fraud. People with healthy organs will curiously die in hospitals , and people with chances of survival will be disconnected to make sure the organs are available, Or even suspect accidents to healthy subjects ordered by rich ones.This is the worry number one. then

- number 2 - i would be worried for NDE cases (Near Death Experience) - there are thousands and thousands of them each year. Just google "near death experiences" and you will see there are a lot of people that will turn back to life even if declared clinically dead. Sure, with this legislation there is no point to do that as your organs would be chopped off.

I suggest more research into artificial organs or genetically modified organs from animals ( we got a farm with pigs back in Romania , all the pigs got human hearts with the matching DNA of the patient - this is the only of its kind in Eastern Europe - and i think it is a good idea)

Fantastic.

I don't understand why people are saying it's sick and stealing organs from people. If you're dead, why not let someone else take an organ that they need to LIVE. If you object, go and say "don't take anything from me", and it'll be fine.

And I agree that thousands die each year because people just don't get around to becoming a donor. It's not that they don't want people to, they are too busy, or just keep saying "I'll do it later", then they die in an accident, before they become a donor, and are buried, and someone dies because they can't get an organ needed to survive.

To be honest, i think not signing up for the donor registration is the sick part. Your dead, you dont need your organs, I say give em to some car accident victim that needs them.

Seeing as there is more than one way to opt out of it (singing the waiver or opt out option, or your family objecting) this doesnt seem like a case of stolen organs at all. I think this is just getting blown out of preportions.

Of course it's a good thing. Of course people should do it.

But it should be a choice.