World must rally against Iran, says Bush

Originally posted by desert
Burginthorn, how about the SAUDIS having nuclear power!! Once again, I nearly choked on my coffee when I saw this this morning. How relevant to your post, and looks like Iran ain't the only ME nation to want to go nuclear.

As oil gets more expensive and harder to find, more nations will be going nuclear, eventually the whole world. Is that such a bad thing?

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
The US has shown a tremendous amount of restraint, too much in my opinion.

With regards to Iran, yes. If the Romans had their embassy taken hostage by the Persians in 79 BC, they would have invaded, and publicly crucified or impaled every militant so-called student.

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
A couple of MOABs on the Iranian Presidential Palace as well as on the bloodthirsty Mullahs would cure the problem.

Wait, so who's the blood thirsty ones again?

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
As oil gets more expensive and harder to find, more nations will be going nuclear, eventually the whole world. Is that such a bad thing?

I will say one thing and leave it at that (although more could be said, but this is not the place to advocate for/against nuclear power for energy usage): waste.

The point of my post was one, to highlight one reason why Iran says it should also be "allowed" nuclear--everyone else is getting it, and two, to point out that the focus is on Iran when it could very well be on other ME countries.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo
...If the Romans had their embassy taken hostage by the Persians in 79 BC, they would have invaded, and publicly crucified or impaled every militant so-called student.

Oh, dear, I should hope that humanity has advanced more than that in all that time.

reply to post by IAmTetsuo


you spoke of restraint on the part of united states, would the Shanghai Cooperation Organization’s Growing Influence Felt Worldwide be a contributing factor to this restraint?

“What Russia and China are doing, in places such as Sudan and Iran, where they are making common cause to block the liberal West’s efforts to impose sanctions, and in Belarus, Uzbekistan, Zimbabwe and Burma, where they have embraced various dictators in defiance of the global liberal consensus,” Robert Kagan, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, observed in the Washington Times, April 30, 2006. Kagan further questioned whether the United States should expect anything else from “an informal league of dictators … www.jinsa.org...

Originally posted by TheoOne
How come I never hear on the news about what Iran says? Is it me, or does Bush makes more talking than Iran?

It appears to me that the President of Iran is not only more educated than GWB - he has a PhD in Civil Engineering, I believe it is...he is also wiser and not easily pulled into an unnecessary conflict with the neighborhood pit-bully.

All we hear is what GWB says and what his propaganda experts want us to hear....that is, unless we take it upon ourselves to FIND OUT ourselves just what is actually said and who said it and who said it first...

This is actually not a hard thing to do, at all. Especially in the last year or so, from my experience.

But the first thing that must be done is to turn off the TV. Find news elsewhere (aka the internet) - even CNN and the BBC are more informative and not as filtered for public consumption on the web.

ALSO...you should check out both the official website of Iran for the president and also he has a personal blog! I just found the latter yesterday when I was roaming around.

President Ahmadinejad's blog is here and you will also find the other link I mentioned on the main page, as well as several others.

He is a 'letter-writer' and while his English is rather formal he is definitely at least bi-lingual in that respect and he has even written a letter specifically addressed to the PEOPLE of the US - not the G-men but the regular joe's - it is a very interesting read as is the letter that he sent to GWB last year that called George out on his christianity-justified hypocrisy. GWB didn't even bother to reply but instead starting complaining that Iran was becoming a threat to us.

Iran is a Muslim nation but yet the President is a wonderful example of what any true-hearted GOD-believer should be - tolerant and not at all militant.

We only get to see the worst side of Islam - and it is no different than the worst side of christianity or any other religion - think about those bible-belt folks that go around carrying signs like 'GOD HATES FAGS' and those that blow up abortion clinics....it is the same in everything. Extremes are what stand out to those that don't know and also the media plays up on that in order to continue to terrorize us in the name of other religions and countries.

I personally think Bush is scared of Iran's president because he KNOWS that Iran KNOWS that he has gone across the line and that President is not afraid to speak out. I honestly think that we have IRAN to thank that we aren't already at war with them!

It takes two to tango and I don't think Iran wants to dance with Bush. Nor does Bush want to wind up in any dark corners with someone speaking Farsi!

I can't believe he actually went over there like he did a week or two ago! It's a wonder he made it back!

reply to post by NWOmaskedman


Russia did not say that. Russia would not risk all out war with us over Iran. We could smash Iran before Russia do anything about it.

reply to post by IAmTetsuo


I'm shocked Regan did not do that. Iran has been a thorn in our rear for along time. Its time to remove the Iranian extremist government. The new MOABS have been fitted to the B-2 bomb bays and soon Iran will be without their new found nuke toys.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by Sky watcher]

Originally posted by musselwhite

Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin.

"And this is the inscription that was written: Mene, Mene, TekeL, Upharsin 26 This is the interpretation of each word. Mene: God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it; 27 Tekel: You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting; 28 Peres: Your kingdom has been divided, and given to the Medes and Persians." Daniel 5:25

I find this most interesting if applied to the United States and iran. As you know, Iran used to be known as Persia. What say you?

Actually...Babylon was divided into what we now know as Iran (Persia) and Iraq (Medes).

But this is something I was thinking about the other day.
Perhaps 'Persia' will inherit 'Medes' and the two will be one again.

Who knows? I do think it is significant and relevant!

I can't agree with your assessment of Ahmadinejad.

When we see the demonization directed at the Iranians it's a natural tendency to overcompensate, but frankly I think Ahmadinejad is much like Bush - a fundamentalist demagogue who uses fear and misdirection to set his country on a regressive course.

He may be a bit more articulate than Bush but he is no more trustworthy.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by IAmTetsuo

 

I'm shocked Regan did not do that. Iran has been a thorn in our rear for along time. Its time to remove the Iranian extremist government. The new MOABS have been fitted to the B-2 bomb bays and soon Iran will be without their new found nuke toys.
[edit on 21-1-2008 by Sky watcher]

Reagan had his hands tied. He was busy propping up the economy at home, fighting the Cold War in Central America and Afghanistan; and at the time the Iraqis looked like they could do the job for us in Iran.

I agree that some sort of military action against Iran in the early 1980s was justified, if only to teach those bullies a lesson. Words are not enough. I don't mean extreme measures such as nukes, concentration camps, or public crucifixions of mullahs. A small surgical strike would have been enough. It's too late for that now, though.

Attacking Iran in 1980s or so would also have taken some of the wind out of America's Religious Right, as well.

Originally posted by xmotex
I can't agree with your assessment of Ahmadinejad.

I totally respect that. I don't even desire to persuade anyone of anything other than it is all up to us to do our investigation and then make our best personal judgment as we feel comfortable with.

That is a freedom that perhaps we all take for granted - the privilege to have opinions AND voice them without fear of reprisal. As well as the freedom and means to find out for ourselves as much about any given situation as is possible!

However that is also one of my most personal grave concerns these days...this so-called war on terror has really accomplished nothing other than some major damage to the foundation of the constitution. I refuse to be bullied by fear into losing my human right to freely speak my mind in a reasonable fashion. But it is getting nearer and nearer to that every day and the reasons given are such things as Bush is saying about these other leaders. If it's true then I would welcome protection. But if not true then I see it as a form of imprisonment!

When we see the demonization directed at the Iranians it's a natural tendency to overcompensate, but frankly I think Ahmadinejad is much like Bush - a fundamentalist demagogue who uses fear and misdirection to set his country on a regressive course.

Well certainly that is often true. I can only speak for myself, though, when I say that I neither like to make excuses for others or overcompensate for their opponents. All I REALLY want is the same as John Lennon said:

Just give me some TRUTH.

I can handle anything if it is the truth.

He may be a bit more articulate than Bush but he is no more trustworthy.

That is also something I know is your right to believe. I must say that when I have examined both men's words (their own words...not the media's paraphrased hearsay nor what they might say each about the other one as criticism) I have so far caught Bush and his crew in SEVERAL proven lies but so far I haven't found the same to be true for the other man.

Of course, I have more background on Bush as well as more of his words to examine...but a liar is a liar all the time and the only way for any of us to ever certainly discern fact from fiction ourselves is by making fact our own habit in all things rather than fiction.

But then, again, I am not an Iranian citizen. I am a citizen of a country whose government's integrity is, for me, no longer even something I can try to believe in with the most generous benefit of doubt. We don't pay our taxes and obey our laws in order to be lied to and manipulated in such a way.

It has often occurred to me that it is more than possible that much of the problem with deceit in our leadership is simply due to the fact that truth has been neglected for so long as something not only proper but imperative...that they no longer recognize what is truth and what is not.

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
A couple of MOABs on the Iranian Presidential Palace as well as on the bloodthirsty Mullahs would cure the problem.

LOL .... that didn't work on Milosivik and it won't work
with President iNeedAJob.

No what we need is a noose hanging on the white house lawn
with Bush's neck attached. Cuz that some beach would invade the
North Pole if he thought Santa was holding something he wanted.

we haven't become the world policeman
we've become the world's bully

[edit on 21-1-2008 by SimonSays]

Originally posted by queenannie38
...We don't pay our taxes and obey our laws in order to be lied to and manipulated in such a way.

It has often occurred to me that it is more than possible that much of the problem with deceit in our leadership is simply due to the fact that truth has been neglected for so long as something not only proper but imperative...that they no longer recognize what is truth and what is not.

Deceit in the mortgage/finance industry has lead to the home loan meltdown with its ensuing damage. (Didn't we get enough deceit with Enron??)

Deceit in gov't gave us Iraq.

You know, I remember as far back as early 1980's (and I've never been able to either find the article I saved or a source online) one of Ronald Reagan's campaign advisors saying with glee, how democracy is just an "illusion", in other words something that can be manipulated to get someone to elect someone into power.
Are citizens finally waking up?

Queenannie, I'm much more cynical than you--they recognize what is the truth, but choose to manipulate it.

Originally posted by IAmTetsuo

I agree that some sort of military action against Iran in the early 1980s was justified, if only to teach those bullies a lesson.

Bullies?!?

Do you even know why they took the hostages?

Hint: it might have something to do with the brutal dictatorship we put in power there and propped up for 25 years, and having a trump card in case we tried to put it back in power

It worked, too.

reply to post by queenannie38


Thanks for a cordial and well-thought-out reply.

I must say I agree with what you said.

reply to post by xmotex


And you know, X, Iran back then was using their oil money to buy US military hardware, lots of it. The CIA had its listening posts in Iran, trained on Russia, our enemy then. All the $ spent on CIA, NSA, etc, and we still got it wrong. Remind anyone of something more recent (hint--9-11)?

All the military/spy technology, and we ignored the human level. We didn't understand, and, God help us, we still don't.

Can we even afford another war? All this debt is going to turn the country into a third world hell-hole owned by foreign companies.

reply to post by desert


Because our culture does such a good job convincing us of our own inherent righteousness, we almost never question it.

Tetsuo's post is a good example.
Everyone knows about the Iranian hostage situation, gets worked up about it, and glosses over why it occurred. Apparently the crazy Iranians did it because they hate Mom, the Flag, Apple Pie and all the rest....

It's considered almost treasonous to point out that this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum, and a lot of it is just payback. Look at Chris Wallace and Rudy Guliani jumping on Ron Paul for having the nerve to admit that 9-11 was a direct result of our interventionist foreign policy.

Even a five year old has the sense to see that it's true, but actually saying it is a no-no, and tantamount to betraying the tribe.

Originally posted by xmotex
Because our culture does such a good job convincing us of our own inherent righteousness, we almost never question it.
...

saying it is a no-no, and tantamount to betraying the tribe.

Excellent post. Excellent post.

People do not stop to think that we live in just one tiny point in time. 200, even 2000, years from now we will look just as tribal, just as primitive as we view other cultures (past/present) today.

I write this on the day set aside to remember a great leader, MLK. He betrayed the tribe and was killed. Tribal elders want to water down his lessons, to avoid his anti-war lessons, his urge to non-violent collective action, for this is what they fear.
Today's tribal leaders are a fearful lot. They are so afraid, that they fear truth and justice. They are selfish beings, only wanting what is good for them.