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Is Once Saved Always Saved?

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posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 09:19 PM
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Once Saved Always Saved is a fallacy. If Once Saved Always Saved was true, then there would be no need for us to walk the Narrow path. There would be no need to follow the Scriptures either because we would have already received our Salvation simply by accepting Christ into our hearts just one time. If I was “Saved” last week and murdered a person this week it would be of no consequence because I am exempt having been “Saved” the week before and there would be no need to repent for that vile sin.

The truth is that Christ died on the cross to balance the scales because we were born into Secondary sin. This is different from Willful Sin. Being born into Secondary sin is what makes us all sinners. It’s Secondary sin because Adam and Eve committed original sin and we are all of Adam and Eve’s line. It is always possible for us to willfully sin because we are all given Free Will. That’s why it takes endurance to walk the narrow path. To follow the Commandments and Christ’s teachings to the best of our ability and to repent when we know we have failed. The Narrow Path is just what it says, Narrow. And it’s hard to stay on it. By the Word becoming Jesus Christ and his unselfish willingness to take on Mankind’s sin as a relief from spiritual death from being born into secondary sin was a turning of Yahweh’s wrath from those that put faith in the Sacrifice. It was the undeserved kindness that Yahweh was presenting to all of Mankind. All that was necessary was to accept the truth of the living Word – Christ Jesus into their hearts because it was he that balanced the scales of righteousness and absolved us of secondary sin.

But accepting Christ is only the beginning of the catalyst of his Holy Spirit’s positive energy to help bring people to salvation. Accepting Christ into our hearts is only part of what is required. Because meanwhile Satan has been permitted to test us and he aims to get us to willfully sin in order to determine if we are worthy of Salvation and that is why it takes constant work and effort and endurance on our part to walk that Narrow Path. If Once Saved Always Saved is true, then why allow us to be tested if we cannot fail?

This is WHY it says at Matthew 19:24 “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God."

That is WHY that in addition to an acceptance of Christ into our hearts, it also requires cultivating a good heart condition in order to obtain Salvation. That is also why it says at Proverbs 4:23 Above all else guard your heart, because it is the source of life.

It’s both an acceptance of Christ AND a good heart that will enable us to obtain salvation and ETERNAL LIFE. It’s through both of these things that we are deemed righteous in the Father’s eyes.

Now, let’s look at some Scriptures to back this up:

Matthew 24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.

So what happens to those who believe Once Saved Always Saved if they don't endure to the end? Are they delivered anyway? “Delivered” in Matthew 24:13 is literal. Those who endure will be delivered into Christ’s Kingdom

Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible to renew to repentance those who were once enlightened, who tasted the heavenly gift, became companions with the Holy Spirit, tasted God's good word and the powers of the coming age, and who have fallen away, because, to their own harm, they are recrucifying the Son of God and holding Him up to contempt.

This explains how it’s possible to be enlightened, to accept Christ into our hearts, to become companions with the Holy Spirit and have tasted God’s good word and STILL fall away through willful sin.

Hebrews 10:36-39 For you need endurance, so that after you have done God's will, you may receive what was promised. For in yet a very little while, the Coming One will come and not delay. But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him. But we are not those who draw back and are destroyed, but those who have faith and obtain life.

This says it all in the first four words of the verse. We need endurance in order to be saved. The righteous will live by faith but if they “draw back”, in other words, if they fall away through willful sin, or draw away wilfully they are deemed lost and will be destroyed. It’s those who endure and have faith will obtain eternal life and Salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Discipline is part of endurance. Endurance takes discipline. Paul was aware that because he had free will, he could fall away at anytime and that he could be disqualified and lose his salvation should he fall away via willful sin.

Philippians 2:12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

If Once saved Always Saved, there’s no need for “fear and trembling”. It’s because our salvation CAN be lost that we “work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.”

This, my friends, is why Once Saved Always Saved is a fallacy. Yes, we were Saved from spiritual death of being born into Secondary sin by Christ’s willingness to sacrifice his perfect life for us so that we may live; but in addition to accepting Christ, it takes endurance and the cultivation of a good heart by which we will be judged in order to obtain salvation.




posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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So if it takes a good heart, then would a good heart want someone to be fearful?



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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This is where I differ with many Christians as I do not accept the OSAS doctrine. Hey, I hope I'm wrong but I don't think so. If you also notice, when someone leaves the faith, the most common explanation given to defend the OSAS doctrine is saying, "Then they were never saved to begin with!" That doesn't fly.

If a person accepts Jesus into their heart at the age of five, renounces it at the age of 20, and converts to fundamental Islam and starts beheading Christians they are still saved? This makes no sense.

They also often quote the parable of the prodigal son. HUGE POINT: The prodigal son returned in the end. He did not die while away from his father. He is only accepted back when he comes back. Not just because.

But this is a major debate between Christians so I usually don't defend my view adamantly. They bring up some good points too and I hope I'm wrong. Same thing with Hell. The Bible certainly seems to imply it is eternal but if it is just temporary then great! I don't think so but great!



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 09:41 PM
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If you think about it the OSAS doctrine really doesn't make any logical sense. That's why I provided scriptures as we're told to always reason using them. Paul spoke a lot of endurance and self-control, but for some reason many shepherds leave all of this out in favor of the OSAS doctrine and "feel good gospel" that is so rampant these days.

What worries me is that it's really deceiving and endangers the eternal lives of many people. But, it's accepted because it seems easy and people will always accept what is easy over what is hard. Some level of fear is required to obtain obedience. If as a child, you're not afraid of your parents and their punishments for things you do that are wrong, will you listen to their discipline or obey them?

The OSAS dosctrine also contradicts what Christ said at Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God."



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron
If you think about it the OSAS doctrine really doesn't make any logical sense.


Actually it makes perfect logical sense, The true nature of it is a simple thing when you truly accept Christ into your heart it is a life altering event and then manifests itself accordingly. Your example of one being saved then commiting murderdoesnt really hold up because if one had within them the capacity to commit murder then they could hardly have been really saved to begin with.


Paul spoke a lot of endurance and self-control, but for some reason many shepherds leave all of this out in favor of the OSAS doctrine and "feel good gospel" that is so rampant these days.


You are correct here to walk the path takes alot of discipline and self control in order to prevent backsliding. But it is also our nature to stumble along the way. The OSAS doctrine is not a permission slip to go out and do whatever you want, even though many will attempt to turn it into such. Those that do use this line of thought immeadiatly call into question whether or not they truly are saved and that should be apparent in the fruit they are producing.


The OSAS dosctrine also contradicts what Christ said at Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God."


This has little to do with OSAS doctrine at all as it is taken out of context in your inerpretation of it. This is clearly a reference to those who are willing to say that I am saved yet I am unwilling to do anything to actually walk the path camp, in which case you could hardly say those people were saved at all. Again being Saved is more than just actually saying you are it is something that shows through in everything you do.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 


I Agree.
Great post!
It took me a long time to shake off the leaven
of the once saved always saved doctrine.
Jesus will stand by us, but we can willingly leave him.
Why else would the verses about having our names blotted out be there, also In Revelation, the 10 virgins ALL had oil in their lamps,
the oil is the holy spirit.


[edit on 12-1-2008 by Clearskies]



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 11:21 PM
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What about predestination?



Romans 8

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?


That says once saved always saved to me.

Then we have the parable of the talents.



Matthew 25

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.


You might think the experience of the one talent man would work against the once saved always saved concept, but then we have the parable of the wheat and the tares, and I say to you, the one talent man was a tare. It is our works after salvation that determine our role in the kingdom of heaven.

I think, also, that you have misinterpreted Hebrews 10. Hebrews 10:39 indicates that the truly saved are "them that believe to the saving of the soul."

This discussion may rest in large part on what it means to be saved. "Confess your sins, repent, and trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and you will be saved. What remains to occur at this point is the salvation experience itself. The anointing with the Holy Spirit. Once that takes place, it cannot be undone.

As another poster said above, there may be many Christians who believe thay are saved, but haven't had a true salvation experience. "For many are called, but few are chosen."



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 07:16 AM
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The question is, how many were once dead men and now hear the voice of the Son of GOD, and live?

It's a serious matter and not one to be taken lightly. If anyone questions within themselves even in the slightest whether they hear (not as in one singular instance, but as a continual thing) him or not, they should seek him until they know exactly what that means and do hear.

Within John 5:18-47 he explains all of that in detail.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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I missed a defining quote yesterday in the case for once saved always saved, and I want to add it here now.



1 Peter 1

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory

11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.



posted on Oct, 23 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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I fully agree that true Christians do not sin but instead they take delight in abiding by the laws regulations and decrees of the Lord. A big problem is that MANY potential Christians are led by the wolves, those seemingly harmless people who fiercely defend their motto, "EVERYONE sins and there are no exceptions to THAT!! Hmph!". This is a clever guise of false humility and also, is an utter lie. These wolves choose to adhere to St. Paul's "discovery" (Romans 7:9-10) instead of the infalliable words of Jesus Christ.
Please allow me to explain further. Around 57 A.D., Saul/Paul wrote, "So I discovered that the law's commands which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead." Here Paul basically says we are made spiritually dead because of God's commands. Which means, the mere fact that God told us to do anything means that we're being spiritually mutilated.
On the other hand Jesus says that his words are spirit and life, (John 6:63) Please keep in mind that Jesus doesn't make up truths as he goes along, he never spoke on his own behalf. People do not live off of food alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
That being said, I'd also like to point out that Jesus said, "If you recieve a prophet as one who speaks for God, you will be given the same reward as a prophet." (Matthew 10:41) This means that if you adhere to the ways and "deeper truths" of Paul's misleadings then you aren't much different from Paul at heart, and thus will be given the same reward/punishment as Paul. Be careful though, those of you give precedence to Paul's writings over the words of Jesus. Jesus quoted scripture, "You must worship the Lord your God and serve him only." Paul must not have known this scripture because he claimed to be a slave of God (Romans 1:1), and THEN claimed to be a slave of sin (Romans 7:14), and THEN proceeded to write several more books on the "Free Undeserved Gift of Eternal Life". Jesus clearly said that there is a COST to being a follower of God and that ANYONE and EVERYONE who sins is a slave to sin, a slave is not part of the family and does not get an inheritance.
Of course there is so much more I'd like to say but I'll finish with this clincher. Jesus said in John 15:6 "Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned."



posted on Oct, 24 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 
ReginaAdonnaAaron,

It's for sure man is a weakling when it comes to staying in the straight and narrow way for we are nothing of ourselves and our stength is the abiding Saviour in us. Christ in us is our only hope of glory. Col. 1:27

KJV. .Pr 26:11 ¶ As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

The humble teachable ones who know their weakness. "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth" Mat. 5:5. These hold on to the True Saviour.

Truthiron.



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