Demon(s) Why haven't I got one?

this is just one of those threads that you got to laugh at, really.

all i see here are a couple of ignorent brats saying that everyone who is spiritually aware is a f***ing psycho, honestly, i have seen demons, i have seen an angel, i constintly see ghosts, i go to the doctors regurlary and theyve all checked me out fine, i do not get attacked by demons or angel or ghosts, the simple thing to do is ignore the things which are harmfull.

i understand what you mean legalizer, but if you experienced something like this you would call yourself insane would you, you'd bleleive and you'd freak out.

and mister jedi, you seem like a rational man apart from your over reacting to a skeptic, please try what he said and dont argue, then give him the results, if hes right you'll be doped, if your right photo the results and post them.

i have seen ghosts since i was 6, im a normal child, i have a normal life and theres nothing wrong with me, but this world is allways changing, if i hadnt started seeing ghosts etc at a young age i wouldve questioned myself, but you have to think about people, not as attention seekers, but as emotional people with feelings etc.

il be honest and tell you that i am an indigo child. you can ridicule me if you want but i will forgive you.

peace out dudes and have a good one

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
i go to the doctors regurlary and theyve all checked me out fine,

Which kind of doctors are checking you out? Your local MD?
Has he done an MRI on your brain?
You tell the doctors you hallucinate and they say you are fine?
Sounds like either you not honest somewhere in this.

i understand what you mean legalizer, but if you experienced something like this you would call yourself insane would you, you'd bleleive and you'd freak out.

If I started having persecution complex like you or miller I'd definately
get myself on anti-psychotic medication and go into therapy.
I would not for an instant believe that any of these events were more than
my own mental state, because I know better.

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmeri have seen ghosts since i was 6, im a normal child,

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmeril be honest and tell you that i am an indigo child

Which is it, normal or indigo? Can't decide?
Why is it that the people who claim to be indigo always have trouble with spelling simple three letter words like "I'll".

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmeri have a normal life

Seeing ghosts, angels, demons, etc is so far from normal, you'd need
a plane ticket to get back to normal, or a steady dose of medicine, maybe electric shock therapy.

everyone is diferent so for me this is normal, for you, what your doing is normal, i understand what you mean and in a vast ammount of cases you are right and id say your a very smart guy but, life is life and nothing is normal.

i think i rest my case on me being normal

peace out

Originally posted by anglosaxon
Correct me if my perception is a little off track but I cannot fathom why some of our community are citing Demons are responsible from sleeping disorders to a bump in the night and more. What perplexes me is that some replies to posters foster this and submit opinions and advice blindly without examining other options first.

I think for the most part mundane explanations for common problems are usually the first offered. If somebody has a nightmare, the first response is generally not to suggest that it's demons, but rather that spicy pizza they ate before going to bed.

As for demons, though, the literature and history of incorporeal entities is a long and colorful one, and is certainly worth considering in spite of the general 19th Century Newtonian/mechanical philosophical prejudice against such things.

It's simple enough to just label an experience "sleep paralysis" or "night terrors" and blithely explain it away as having something vaguely to do with brain chemistry, which is itself a kind of catch-all, magical mantra chanted without having to do any actual study of a case, and intended to make the spooks go away.

The catch is, of course, that even if "brain chemicals" were responsible, it still doesn't explain why the brain chemicals may have reacted the way they did or how they got all riled up in the first place. Genetic predisposition? Maybe. But so are a lot of things. Could some people have a genetic predisposition for interacting with annoying bodiless intelligences/personality constructs? Why not?

If demonic forces indeed exist stop and think... Why me? Then come to a sensible conclusion.

A perfectly reasonable question, but it might not produce the answer you're hoping for. One might just as easily ask "why me" about color blindness, or being left-handed... or maybe being a naturally good conduit for demons. And the fact is that some personal accounts of strange happenings fit the historical descriptions of demon encounters better than vague psychological prognoses explained by the holy "Brain Chemical Interactions."

Originally posted by Legalizer

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
i go to the doctors regurlary and theyve all checked me out fine,

Which kind of doctors are checking you out? Your local MD?
Has he done an MRI on your brain?
You tell the doctors you hallucinate and they say you are fine?
Sounds like either you not honest somewhere in this.

i understand what you mean legalizer, but if you experienced something like this you would call yourself insane would you, you'd bleleive and you'd freak out.

If I started having persecution complex like you or miller I'd definately
get myself on anti-psychotic medication and go into therapy.
I would not for an instant believe that any of these events were more than
my own mental state, because I know better.

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmeri have seen ghosts since i was 6, im a normal child,

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmeril be honest and tell you that i am an indigo child

Which is it, normal or indigo? Can't decide?
Why is it that the people who claim to be indigo always have trouble with spelling simple three letter words like "I'll".

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmeri have a normal life

Seeing ghosts, angels, demons, etc is so far from normal, you'd need
a plane ticket to get back to normal, or a steady dose of medicine, maybe electric shock therapy.

i answered your question now were have you ran off too?hurry up back so we can talk some more cause you seem like a nice guy

Originally posted by Nohup
The catch is, of course, that even if "brain chemicals" were responsible, it still doesn't explain why the brain chemicals may have reacted the way they did or how they got all riled up in the first place. Genetic predisposition? Maybe. But so are a lot of things. Could some people have a genetic predisposition for interacting with annoying bodiless intelligences/personality constructs? Why not?

Sleep paralysis can be brought on by lack of sleep, stress, fever, and of course brain chemical imbalances like anxiety, depression, psychotic paranoia.

Historical accounts of demons are more fiction. Many of them drawn from forced,ie, torturous confessions. How many of these cases have been examined from a purely psychological and physiological perspective at the time they were recorded?
I'll tell you, ZERO! Medicine was considered sorcery and punishable by death, any explanation other than that of the church was heresy, punishable by death.

More cases of demons and familiars were fabrications of "witch hunters".
They got a third of persons land when that person was convicted of sorcery.
You see a financial stake in making up stories that are patently false?

Look at what the Catholic church is doing. Because of endless pedophile scandal, they are losing massive amounts of adherents and with it funding, their schools are closing left and right over the last seven years. And so they come out with "We are going to train more exorcists to rid people of demons". What a bunch of rubbish.
They are targeting the paranoid, delusional, and ignorant, as usual and it has absolutely nothing to do with demons, and everything to do with money and power.

And for Richard you don't need to quote my entire post which is already quoting portions your post. If you have something specific to say, say it.

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
and mister jedi, you seem like a rational man apart from your over reacting to a skeptic, please try what he said and dont argue, then give him the results, if hes right you'll be doped, if your right photo the results and post them.

Well thank you friend. but I cannot prove the existence of Demons. Only thing I can say is that I have had an MRI brain catscan and it came back normal.

Why did you have an MRI miller?
I sense deception.

If you were given a MRI for your confessions of hallucination and delusion, then why are you not seeing a psychiatrist and medicated enough to stop babbling the nonsense that comes out of you.

Post after post you have zero proof of your claims.

Do you know what a pathological liar is?

In psychology, mythomania (also known as pseudologia fantastica or pathological lying) is a condition involving compulsive lying by a person with no obvious motivation. The affected person might believe their lies to be truth, and may have to create elaborate myths to reconcile them with other facts.

Sound like someone you know? Yes go look in the mirror, he's there.

Wow, someone actually made a thread about nothing. Congrats.

My father-in-law went from a perfectly normal man, suddenly into what was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Time and time again he felt he was being pursued by "something." One time the grandfather clock in my living room began to chime (Westminister chime) and when it did, he grabbed his head, covering his ears and began screaming, saying over and over that it reminded him of a church.

Time progressed and my father-in-law eventually hanged himself in his brother's bedroom, attaching an electrical cord to a door, standing on a shoe shine box and kicking the box out from underneath him. It did the trick. He did leave a suicide note behind and in it he said that the devil was after him and that if he did not do something he would end up hurting someone else. I guess what I remember most about his death, when his brother found him, my father-in-law had his fingernails buried deep into his neck, as a last attempt to get the cord off of his neck. Evidently he realized that what he had done, was not what he had wanted.

Would you say the source of the sickness was purely mental or demonic?

Originally posted by jdposey
My father-in-law went from a perfectly normal man, suddenly into what was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic.

Is this kind of change also "normal"? Was the diagnosis the cause or result of a possession? What caused the change exactly?

Originally posted by jdposey
One time the grandfather clock in my living room began to chime (Westminister chime) and when it did, he grabbed his head, covering his ears and began screaming, saying over and over that it reminded him of a church.

Why would he fear the chimes of a church?

Originally posted by jdposey
He did leave a suicide note behind and in it he said that the devil was after him and that if he did not do something he would end up hurting someone else.

Was he right? How do you know?

Originally posted by jdposey
Would you say the source of the sickness was purely mental or demonic?

You tell us, what did the medical exams say was the exact chemical/neurological cause? Why was he fearing the devil and not giant ants (for example)?

I'm sorry for your loss. It sounds like this event successfully turned you away from exploring the possibility of God.

[edit on 16-1-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God


No, his death did not turn me away from God. I came into the faith 30 years ago and here I am, by the grace of God, still holding to the faith. As for medical results, there were none. Do I think it was demonic possession, no, I can't honestly say that. I believe there are some things on this side of eternity that we can't answer and we have to just leave those in the hands of God.

Originally posted by jdposey
No, his death did not turn me away from God. I came into the faith 30 years ago and here I am, by the grace of God, still holding to the faith.

This is good news! Nice evidence that a person is not a product of their environment and a subject of the negative events in their life. I think most people in that situation might've turned away.

Originally posted by jdposey
As for medical results, there were none. Do I think it was demonic possession, no, I can't honestly say that.

Not sure why. The whole new testament has several examples of "paranoid schizophrenics" as medical examiners would apparently say today. What did Jesus call these people with this kind of problem? What did Jesus do about it? In the mind of your father-in-law, it sounds like he was of noble intent to lay down his life to ensure he did not harm others. We may believe there are better ways to get through this problem, my hope is there is, but things happened as they did. Maybe you can introduce me to him when we get there?

"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:13

Originally posted by jdposey
I believe there are some things on this side of eternity that we can't answer and we have to just leave those in the hands of God.

Well said!

[edit on 16-1-2008 by saint4God]

if you want to know about demons, then you need to read up an decide for your self what you are 110% of what happens when you pass on to the next life,

I mean we know this much right, Energy, we are made of it, now does energy die? Nope it merely transforms into another state of being, Now with that in mind we have our Negitive and positive energies, this is very basic stuff.

So Would demons be positive or negitive, Believe it or notm they are both.
Everything is Both negitive an Positive, ( refer to atoms ) some are just polarized to the more negitive or positive spectrum, But it still is there.

This is not just science it Metaphysics. Demons trying to burn your house down? We the 1st thing that would mean is Your Not in control,

Somewhere along the line You gave up your UNIVERSAL Right to Freewill, you could of been depressed, upset, angery an just said I dont care anymore!

Thats all another enitiy would need to enter you an try such stuff, This may sound odd but You are Surrounded By other entities EVERY SEC!

You ever get that feeling that starts from the lower back n heads to your base of the neck? Thats a good reference when you have a good being around yout one of mostly Possitive origin. of course these are my views, But honestly they take bits and peieces from ALL religions. Spirits exsist wether you want to admit it or not, energy just doesnt die an go away, it changes form an still is that energy always.

This decade will yeild a Spiritual evolutionary change on a scale no one has ever seen before. Just wait guys I have faith.

Originally posted by Legalizer
Sleep paralysis can be brought on by lack of sleep, stress, fever, and of course brain chemical imbalances like anxiety, depression, psychotic paranoia.

Of course, but what can account for those things? Job and relationship stress? Sure. Viruses? Of course. But what if there's another possible factor, such as the interaction of certain brain structures with what have historically been called "demons?" Some kind of coherent personality structure that exists within certain kinds of EM fields? It would be difficult to detect, particularly if you didn't believe it existed.

Historical accounts of demons are more fiction. Many of them drawn from forced,ie, torturous confessions. How many of these cases have been examined from a purely psychological and physiological perspective at the time they were recorded? I'll tell you, ZERO! Medicine was considered sorcery and punishable by death, any explanation other than that of the church was heresy, punishable by death.

Modern psychology does offer some insight into mental illness, although it has more to do with nomenclature than anything else -- naming certain kinds of recognizable patterns. But it hasn't really done all that much when it comes to determining the causes of such patterns, and it has a few psychoactive chemicals available for treatment that work in ways they don't quite understand, if they work at all.

It's easy to dismiss the historical accounts as fiction, although as with UFOs, the sheer volume of accounts, as well as their consistency, should be of interest to a curious, open mind. Many valid avenues of scientific research have historical anecdotes as their source.

The most difficult part of determining demon activity is that modern medicine is reluctant to acknowledge it, because there's no good theoretical framework that it fits into. A better way to approach demons from a treatment standpoint, however, would be to approach it like acupuncture. There's an effect, but nobody knows quite what's going on. Some suggestion that the affected body is interacting with some kind of subtle energy field.

From there, traditional treatments can be used -- specialized prayers, talismans, etc. -- according to the kind of "possession" manifested. Other treatments, including exposure to varieties of light and EM fields, might prove to be effective, also. Psychotropic chemicals? Although research into this area is sadly limited because of the stigma associated with it. Oh, well.

it is said that people with mental disorders are often more connected with all then just this plane of exsistence. That would drive me batty as well.

your brain is a receptor. gotta wonder what all it can recieve and why it was built to recieve. just our body signals or more?

this is why for the life of me i cant grasp the concept that we in the 21st century havent been more interested in this, we rather cut it open an look inside rather study more what connections it has.

This here on earth isnt the whole picture people, theres a universe of exsistence out there waiting for us to become involved.

Believe

reply to post by saint4God


"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." - John 15:13

It has been 22 years since his death and I have to say that I have never considered his suicide in that light of scripture. Yet, it does make sense. though.

As one of the spiritual mediums in ATS and one who has extensive experience in the area of discarnate demonic attack, I would like to provide some insight on this heated issue.

Originally posted by Nohup
Modern psychology does offer some insight into mental illness, although it has more to do with nomenclature than anything else -- naming certain kinds of recognizable patterns. But it hasn't really done all that much when it comes to determining the causes of such patterns, and it has a few psychoactive chemicals available for treatment that work in ways they don't quite understand, if they work at all.

It's easy to dismiss the historical accounts as fiction, although as with UFOs, the sheer volume of accounts, as well as their consistency, should be of interest to a curious, open mind. Many valid avenues of scientific research have historical anecdotes as their source.

Good points Nohup.

Originally posted by Nohup
The most difficult part of determining demon activity is that modern medicine is reluctant to acknowledge it, because there's no good theoretical framework that it fits into.

BINGO.

The reason why the psychological community at large - with a slowly increasing percentage of progressive therapists - is reluctant to acknowledge it is because of the twisted conclusions of the "Father of Modern Psychiatry," none other than Sigmund Freud

Which is why Freudian psychoanalysts, the viewpoints of which are echoed in this thread, immediately label anything of a discarnate nature to be indicative of mental illness - which of course is complete nonsense.

Sigmund Freud was an atheist who was clueless about the reality of life before birth and life after death, the validity of the discarnate dimensions, and the nonliving and infinite Light that has been reported for time immemorial by near death experiencers.

Psychotherapists are a relatively recent happening. For the vast majority of civilizations on this planet, spanning back many thousands of years, there were no psychotherapists. Instead there were shamans, mystics, and prophets, representative of many different faiths and cultures. To completely dismiss the discarnate dimensions among the "experts in society" is also a recent occurrence.

Contrary to Freud's conclusions based on speculation and ignorance, they knew that spirits existed and that they have a constant telepathic influence on those in the flesh, in various degrees.

They also knew that dreams were not the product of the brain that activated at night to produce them - as Freud espoused - but that when people rested they simply became more receptive to telepathic communications from the Other Side that were usually represented symbolically and not literally.

In other words...all nightmares are actually the result of discarnate abuse, not suppressed thoughts and feelings stemming from one's sex drive.

So now you have a situation whereby the psychoanalytical community at large is in a quandary. They have no medicines that can end a demonic influence. They can only drug-up their victimized patients into being numb from that influence.

Which of course is no solution at all.

Originally posted by Nohup
A better way to approach demons from a treatment standpoint, however, would be to approach it like acupuncture. There's an effect, but nobody knows quite what's going on. Some suggestion that the affected body is interacting with some kind of subtle energy field.

They are very much interacting with energy fields. But those fields cannot be directly measured in a lab and therefore are not even acknowledged as being real by most therapists. What they cannot measure with instruments, they will not accept. A very shallow approach to discovery but that is precisely what happens time and time again in modern psychiatry.

Originally posted by Nohup
From there, traditional treatments can be used -- specialized prayers, talismans, etc. -- according to the kind of "possession" manifested. Other treatments, including exposure to varieties of light and EM fields, might prove to be effective, also. Psychotropic chemicals? Although research into this area is sadly limited because of the stigma associated with it. Oh, well.

Prayer, the visualization of the white and/or gold light around the body, Qigong self-healing techniques, meditation, etc., are all helpful. As is the simple understanding that demons are simply spiritually retarded people who have crossed over and who combine their energies in The Light to sadistically abuse people on This Side.

But there is a price to pay for being sadistic to one or more innocents.

As near death experience research indicates: no one ever truly gets away with anything. It just appears that evil often goes unpunished - for those on This Side who can't see the consequences of Universal Law unfolding on the Other Side.

All abuse to innocents results in the discarnate source lessening or weakening in energy with the corresponding shrinking of their consciousness in The Light. Eventually, they weaken themselves to the point whereby they can no longer combine into a Group Entity and are indirectly forced to reside in the most hellish of discarnate dimensions; this is the First Plane in the traditional Seven Plane paradigm found in many metaphysical schools of thought. It it not place where a devil rules. No one rules there. It is a place, a vibration in the Spirit whereby one is constantly surrounded by hostility, fear, degradation, emotional strife, loud noises, and loneliness.

That is the ultimate karmic punishment of all who follow an evil path.



[edit on 16-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]

More non scientific, untrained sermonizing, ie, lies to yourself and others.

Schizophrenia is no great mystery to science as you claim.
There is genetic disorders that bring it on, post traumatic stress brings it on, brain tumors and glandular problems that bring it on.

You wont' find a doctor shrugging and saying "maybe its demons".

You want to believe and you want to spread lies.

Come up with something more valid then your untrained and uneducated religious dogma.

If thats all you have to stand on then you can simply be ignored, because its clear your only agenda in life is to enjoy the drug high of a lie and have others agree with you about the lies, so you feel better about yourselves.

Your god is not real, and neither are demons.