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Guantanamo Detainees Are Not Human Beings

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posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 01:58 PM
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Try looking at prison statistics from another perspective. There are certainly many people in prison, and even on death row, who are outright innocent. But then we have to take a step back and look at who is really guilty. How many people that are in prison today came from impoverished conditions? If there was education, work and opportunity in this country, there wouldn't be people out robbing gas stations, selling drugs, and killing eachother over leftover scraps. Well, not in anywhere close to the numbers we are seeing anyway. The majority of people in prison would have probably much rather worked a regular job and raised a family, like any other American hopes for.

Then there are the those who never even had the chance to consider such dreams, being born on welfare in crime-ridden drug infested communites. Is it any surprise that such people display such detachment from traditional social values, when they have never even been taught them and have been deliberately denied the ability pursue a life based on those values? Please don't misunderstand me, I am not advocating the abolishment of our prison system. Whatever caused the sickness, rabid animals cannot be set loose on the streets. What I am advocating is meaningful socio-economic reform that will bring an end to the self-perpetuating and swelling cycle of conditions that is eating away at this country to the detriment of all Americans, and even to the world at large.

In relation to the prisoners there in Guantanamo, I think of the saying, "clean up your own back yeard before you go knockin' on your neighbor's door."

Movie suggestion in regards to the nature of criminality: Murder in the First, with Christian Slater and Kevin Bacon.

[edit on 1/13/0808 by jackinthebox]




posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by Umbra Sideralis
 


The real problem here in America and in other western countries, a revolt would do little good. It is not the government itself who is to blame. The government is just a tool that is being used by those who are the real threat. The threat sits behind closed doors, in bank vaults, and well insulated from public scrutiny. The United States of America and all of its citizens are, quite literally, privately owned by the recievers of the 1933 bankruptcy. That is, we are owned by the Federal Reserve Bank, a private corporation with majority control held by the Rothschilds.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


Innocent, who is innocent? You cannot throw away your own values just to pass judgement upon someone else. That's like OJ saying, "Ha ha, I got away with murder, but now I want the DA to go to jail for prosecuting me."

I am not saying that the prisoners may not be murderous international criminals, and that they do not deserve punishment. What I am saying is that we have no way of knowing one way or the other. That is why we have courts and laws. To determine the facts and find the truth. To stoop to the level of the very atrocities we are blaming them for makes no sense. As you said, two wrongs never make a right.

You say they had innocent blood on their hands. How can you, or anyone else possibly know this? There are no charges against them or evidence to support such a claim. Enslaving their own people is your own arrogant personal opinion. I happen to know a Muslim woman who always wears her veil, and is not forced to by anyone. She is a very happy person.

I am not defending animals either. I am defending human rights and American values. It is a Taliban trick to throw someone in prison without charges or trial. It is inexcuseable for America to be doing the very same thing, especially when it goes against the very foundation of our entire system of values. Furthermore, if "they" can get away with this now, how long do you think it will be before American citizens are rounded up and taken away whimsically?



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 02:24 PM
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I have to agree, the majority of them are terrorists and aren't human in my book either. In fact they are less than animals.


SR

posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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What's amazing is the blantent hypocricsy going on here It's a'ok for the USA to class naval cruisers that are off near Iran and other parts of the world as 'sovereign land' with all the legal rights allowed to them but a human being is no longer classed as a human being when their in prisoned by the US.


Who made the USA the field overseer and master of the world to see fit what is acceptable and to pick and choose what it wants to follow crime or no crime they should be allowed human rights.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


My post was not directed at you. Someone else made a comment about these Poor People and I overreacted. Sorry.

I have no problem with them having a trial where they are and in a Military Court. I don't want them receiving the O.J. Treatment in normal court while they get free Legal Help from Media Hounds. They will get a reasonable trial. They have been so fair up till now that some have been released and are shooting at American Soldiers as we speak.

I'm sure most of us here have Muslim Friends as do I. I don't equate the two as the same thing. Fanatics are fanatics. These people were captured while fighting along side other fanatics. Even though the laws are odd and they don't have the courage to wear a uniform; they are POW's. They should be treated as such. Where are all the posts condemning them and their actions?

These are not Muslims. They are Monsters. Why even call them Muslims when they are in fact not? I have never considered them Muslim any more than I consider Nazi's as representative of Germans.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.



Now I'm sure most of these men are bad, and with that said if they are so bad They must be charged and given trial, If they are as bad as our Government claims then both of these should not be an issue as the evidence against them must be overwhelming, or they wouldn't be there, right?


Look at it this way, regardless of how evil they may be The same laws being used against them apply to us thanks to Congress, so these men could be many of the people who post OPINIONS on this website..

Demand justice for these men for the very least your own self preservation.


[edit on 13-1-2008 by C0le]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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Laiguana, you do realise this site is about denying ignorance dont you, how ill informed and ignorant your statement is. The people in Gitmo have had no right to due process so no one knows if they are guilty of anything and who are you to pass judgement on people with no evidence of any alleged crime being committed.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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OJ: 'If I did it'
American judiciary: Well, they are not on American soil. Phew!
Perverted justice, or lack there of. No right to legal defense, or basic human rights.
USA! USA! USA!
Oh yeah, we da best. Take your pick between the Sorros's 650k dead Iraqis, or our countries official 151k figure. Either way. If we spent the trillion we put into this God forsaken Bushky/Pee wee herman adventure into alternative energy sources we could even flip off the Saudis. I can hear the war mongerers sharpening the swords already to rebutt. Slice and dice. A country has been occupied and destroyed.
Was it worth it?



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


I doubt they would be there without sufficient evidence to begin with. What would be the purpose of holding random people there? That makes no sense. These -detainees- are there for a reason and if our government can extract crucial information that would aid in our efforts to fight terrorism then I see no problem in that.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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Let's stop the torture of 3 square meals a day, Qu'ran and Imam access and show the inmates the 72 virgins.
Those who would extend the constitutional protections afforded citizens of the U.S. to those foriegn combatants who would destroy that system in favor of maintaining a system where women are kept illiterate and covered, and judgements of wrong doing are met with chopping off of hands and other body parts have no place in the rational world.
America-hating is an irrational disease that consumes people to the point of suicide, sad to see people of that persuasion posting here.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
Well, it's even worse than that. We don't own our food supply either. Coporations shut down almost every private farm in the midwest during the early 80's. Remember the farmers having standoffs with cops refusing to leave the land their grand and great-grand ancestors had settled? Those private farms were shut down, foreclosed on, and sold to corporations who turned the many smaller plots into several larger mega-farms. Today, most farms are run by machines. GPS navigated un-manned tractors do all the work in the grain fields. But it was the same for other sorts of farms and ranches as well.

Now comes the best part. You are the private property of the Federal Reserve Bank which is a private corporation, not a government office. Majority control of that corporation is held by the Rothschild family, with the remainder divvied up among a few other elite families and international banksters. This was the cost of America's bankruptcy in 1933.


What do you suggest we do? If we surrender our drivers license, social security etc. Could we then be considered "free"? I felt for a long time that I honestly wasn't "free" I just couldn't pinpoint why or how. Your posts have enlighten me now and I do understand. I have always believed in being truly free. But how can it be done? I simply refuse to be a slave to the system, especially not to some greedy p**ks in the federal reserve.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Question
 


It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. - Emiliano Zapata



Civil disobedience is a start, most Americans fear doing it as it generally gets you arrested...

Spread the word, learn all you can about yours rights and he true role of government...

Government by consent of the Governed and the fact, this country is supposed to protect the rights of the individual regardless of Man, Majority or Government.

oh yeah

ARM YOURSELF.


As far as social security, if you've paid into it, keep it...


But at the same time don't live on Gov handouts.... don't use credit cards....


[edit on 13-1-2008 by C0le]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 07:25 PM
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You think they are actually interrogating the detainees for information, maybe to cover up what they are really doing. They have unlimited access to adult specimins for MK Ultra mind control sessions. They will turn them into robots capable of any act and fully controlled through a brainwashing fracturing science started by the S.S.
They have had them long enough to make them dance The Swan Lake under Mind Control.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 07:45 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
What an incredibly one sided thread


Not a word about who these Detainees actually are. Most of them had innocent blood on their hands long before this war started. Most of them are crazed fanatics who helped to enslave their own people.


[loutish remark deleted - Byrd]

You have no idea who the Detainees are or if they're guilty of anything.

Just the way that you say 'Most of them had innocent blood on their hands' makes me want to slap you.

You do realize that the majority of the people haven't even been tried for anything right? And the ones that were were found innocent...

you know that right?

No. You don't. You don't know anything, so you just spout out the mouth that these people were bad and they deserve what they got.

You and every other ignorant person in America deserves to switch places with these innocent people being tortured. I would LOVE to hear you talk to yourself, "I deserve this. I was probably a bad person. I bet I killed innocent people, that's why I'm here."

But you wouldn't say that. You would be just as hopeless and ruined as all the innocent people locked up there.

[truly illmannered "last words" retort deleted - Byrd]

[edit on 14-1-2008 by Byrd]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana

I doubt they would be there without sufficient evidence to begin with. What would be the purpose of holding random people there? That makes no sense. These -detainees- are there for a reason and if our government can extract crucial information that would aid in our efforts to fight terrorism then I see no problem in that.


That's because you're a sheep.

I'm done with you people.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by bigbert81

Guantanamo Detainees Are Not Human Beings


presscue.com

On the sixth anniversary of the imprisonment of detainees at the Guantánamo Bay Naval Base, a United States judge threw out lawsuit brought by four former British detainees against Donald Rumsfeld and senior military officers for ordering torture and religious abuse, ruling that th the detainees are not "Persons" under U.S. Law, which according to another judge, means that they are less than "human beings".
(visit the link for the full news article)


This is disgusting. I am now fully in favor of defecting from this inane country. Im going to South America, folks. This is NO LONGER the USA we all grew up with. I will not condone the dehumanization and torture, nor will I tolerate the scare tactics and false-flag operations used to terrify us into handing over the liberties that our fore-fathers dreamed for us. I will not support the flag, vote, sing the anthem or any such pointless nonsense. There is obviously NO decency left in this Phony place.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana
I doubt they would be there without sufficient evidence to begin with. What would be the purpose of holding random people there? That makes no sense.


Could be to piss them off enough to the point they become zonkers and wacky. And then release them. Then they'd come back with a vengeance and then -- WHAM! Terrorist attack. Released detainees come back to blow themselves up. Defenders of the detention without charge will say "see, they are terrorist! Look what they did."

No need for false flag operations. Make your own radicals.

Perfect pretext for more control and security measures. Oh, so dastardly and sneaky! Create demand for more security spending. Fight the never ending war on terrah (or is it Terran?)

Not really a new concept...
    Therefore a wise prince ought to adopt such a course that his citizens will always in every sort and kind of circumstance have need of the state and of him, and then he will always find them faithful.

    Nicolo Machiavelli
    The Prince, 1513 AD


Aren't you more faithful after the last terror attack?



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 08:31 PM
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Thanks for that enlightenment NWO. It's hard to deal with flag waving, knuckle dragging, Bush loving, NRA bumper sticker ultra nationalists when they have their cumulative heads in points south that see no sun. Truth, not one has been found guilty. Truth, the four detainees released to date have been found 'not guilty'.
e sp

[edit on 13-1-2008 by jpm1602]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Could be to piss them off enough to the point they become zonkers and wacky. And then release them. Then they'd come back with a vengeance and then -- WHAM! Terrorist attack. Released detainees come back to blow themselves up. Defenders of the detention without charge will say "see, they are terrorist! Look what they did."



That really seems like a shot in the dark. To make that the objective for keeping innocent people at Gitmo with the chance that they'll actually become terrorists is a bit far fetched and highly unlikely. For our government to have such an agenda would seem preposterous as well.
We don't need to create any radicals that hate America, they're everywhere fueled by fanatical propaganda. They exist in every part of the world, even in the United States. The -detainees- are there because they have been connected to terrorist activity and have been determined to hold information that is imperative in our efforts against terrorism.



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