I will stick by what I said about a notebook always kept in the same place.

It seems that more people experience changes in time than matter. Time is obviously the most difficult to master, but for the average person changes in states of matter are found to be to the bone shocking. Ridiculous when we can buy sell and create matter(metal, pottery etc), but it is so.

People may not even know what is happening due to their own internal protection mechanisms. Why do some people always have problems wearing watches? After a while they seem to run slow and stop. For some reason we feel the device has failed, never thinking to set the current time and...observe its current state...

I have a box full of watches. So do many others. Were they damaged? Will a watch repairman comment, or avoid you.

We assume the battery ran out too soon. The mainspring has gone soft. We didn't move around enough to self wind. Our cell phone rebooted.

We are fools in our own fools paradise.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Thanks,

So can you will away a colds or allergies?

I also see a little of the age old “money is evil” type mentality, and I really feel that what you do or do not do with money is what makes it evil or good.

As example; more than 90% of us work not for enlightenment but to create security. I fail to see evil in wanting money to create that security, or to prove the means to not work anymore and do other endeavors that are more fulfilling.

What is your thoughts on this?

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Thanks,

So can you will away a colds or allergies?

If I put some effort into it, sure. But sometimes its easier to just take that aspirin once in awhile. We call it "path of least resistance". Since I apply a lot of meditation and body relaxation, combined with spa and sauna, I dont get colds that often anyway. Last cold may have been 2 years ago.

I also see a little of the age old “money is evil” type mentality, and I really feel that what you do or do not do with money is what makes it evil or good.

As example; more than 90% of us work not for enlightenment but to create security. I fail to see evil in wanting money to create that security, or to prove the means to not work anymore and do other endeavors that are more fulfilling.

What is your thoughts on this?

My personal view on it is that I dont seperate between "spiritual" and "material" as I see everything as energy, simply. Although I work in the spiritual counseling profession, I dont believe in trying to "get away" from this life in the sense of ascension or enlightenment or whatever they call it. Furthermore, I believe it is good to take a lot of money for valuable services.

Im sorry to see a lot of people working in my field who believe that they mustnt take many for spiritual services and thus deprive themselves of being able to continue their hearts desire as a profession or means of livelihood. By not taking money they are also, subtly saying "it aint worth anything".

As for "money is the root of all evil", its sad that so many people have had this statement literally force-fed into them. What utter nonsense. A knife can be used to kill and to cut bread.

Creating money allows for easier spiritual practice because it creates a base from which one can relax and be creative.





[edit on 15-1-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Thanks,

So can you will away a colds or allergies?

I also see a little of the age old “money is evil” type mentality, and I really feel that what you do or do not do with money is what makes it evil or good.

As example; more than 90% of us work not for enlightenment but to create security. I fail to see evil in wanting money to create that security, or to prove the means to not work anymore and do other endeavors that are more fulfilling.

What is your thoughts on this?

I had a minor 1 day cold last year when the real bad one was going around, no colds or flu for the 14 years before that. I never take a flu shot, aspirin, or other items. I have used sinus spray a couple of times in the last couple of decades. Both times were cleaning Garages when the dust was very thick.

I do not believe I can get colds or flus so I don't, and I don't stay away from those that do have them. If the body and mind are healthy its not really a possibility. The body is a healing machine. As you believe, so it is unto you. Your belief has made you whole.


Is money or anything inherently evil? Nope. All things may be partaken in moderation, with no fear of ill effect. Since every day we print more and more useless, paper, work credits...If one desires those one should treat themselves as the see fit.

So do you go after money? Well there is a gal on the Secret forum that has hit the lotto 3 or 4 times, but since it was not a byproduct for the betterment of all it will probably fizzle like most of the lottery winners. There. You see the collective consciousness of a larger group of powerful people will effect a generic change of sorts. Since many believe it will fizzle and the media confirms the belief with shows on the subject, the collective battery may have a powerful influence on the result.

It would be best to build a business that works for the betterment. If so, people will be happy to give you their useless paper work credits. It will continue to rack up credits as long as the end users are enriched and the people you end up employing are paid well and happy. Kind of smacks of the SIMs huh?



Money is in no way evil.


Had to trim this one. I did not intend to sound agressive and a re read made me feel it did.

[edit on 15-1-2008 by Illahee]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I also see a little of the age old “money is evil” type mentality, and I really feel that what you do or do not do with money is what makes it evil or good.

As example; more than 90% of us work not for enlightenment but to create security. I fail to see evil in wanting money to create that security, or to prove the means to not work anymore and do other endeavors that are more fulfilling.

What is your thoughts on this?

I know you were not addressing me, but I have thought about this a lot, and this is my take. (Others feel free to comment on any errors you see me making) Money is not evil. And that has never been the biblical quote to begin with. It is the LOVE of money, or the desire for it that creates trouble. Desire for something can only occur when there is a perceived LACK of that thing, or a FEAR that there will be some future lack of that thing. These feelings of fear and lack that stir the desire for money are the problem, called the "evil." Creation via the LOA occurs regardless of postive/negative labeling on our part, and creation from feelings of lack/fear tend to work against your ultimate best life if that life is assumed to be one free of fear and insecurity. I forget which one of these poster's called "evil" "live backwards" but thats how it kind of looks, it was a nice way of phrasing that concept.

For instance, in your post you say "As example; more than 90% of us work not for enlightenment but to create security." Thats kind of living backwards. (Evil) Security could just as easily be ASSUMED as the natural state, (if we realized our own nature/power) and we could work to express our natural and inherent talent for the benefit of all as a vocation. That would be living a life worth having. Instead many of us take "jobs" we loathe, our underlying assumption being that we are NOT secure, and that we MUST work like drudges in order not to starve. We create insecurity when we act from an assumption of insecurity and fear. It may not be an evil in the sense that you are actively or intentionally harming another, but spending large portions of your life doing things you dislike cannot help but harm your Self, and it rubs off on all those around you to some degree when you are less than satisfied. You are also part of the All that is, and harming you is no more acceptable than harming another. So, instead of assuming that the freedom to live a satisfying life must be BOUGHT, with x years of "forced" labor, we could equally assume with the LOA that the freedom to live a satisfying life is inherent.

Not to promote any specific religious slant, (I personally do not have a favorite to promote, I like them all-I study philosophy and religion) but since your post included a reference to a biblical semi-quote I will assume some familiarity or comfort with that source. The bible itself instructs about this aspect of the LOA when Jesus admonishes his followers not to let "security" be ones driving concern in Matthew 6:25-34. (I am not posting the quote from Matthew as it is easily searched on the internet and kind of long)

So, money itself is neutral. Having a lot is not an evil. Getting paid fair value for what you do is not an evil. Letting the fear of not having it, (even if this fear seems to be a "positive" desire for more of it) motivate your choices, that would be the actual problem. Some fears help guide us away from danger, as Skyfloating points out, and helps us stay on our optimal path. But some types of fear, and I am not exactly perfectly clear on the distinction, (perhaps it is body/physical fear vs mental/ego fear,) actually guides us AWAY from our optimal path. Skyfloating feel free to clarify the difference between these types of fear, I would love to understand that better myself as it is where I tend to lock myself up as well.


[edit on 15-1-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by Illahee

You see the collective consciousness of a larger group of powerful people will effect a generic change of sorts. Since many believe it will fizzle and the media confirms the belief with shows on the subject, the collective battery may have a powerful influence on the result.

Doesnt this sort of negate the effect one's own belief has and sort of neuter the whole foundation of LOA? Its kind of like saying the sports team that will win is the one that has the most people believing it will win, regardless of the athlete's own beliefs. Or are you saying that having an idea in the collective consciousness influences your own beliefs by the sheer weight and presence of such a large number people reflecting this belief to you? Kind of like "psych-ing" you out?

It hard to have an opinion based on any examples with this.

We know about the test with the lowering of the crime rate through collective influence. In various occult systems they naturally assume collective ability. There is also a theory that your belief can and does shield you from the negative thoughts of others if you are in a positive state.

My personal belief that is based purely on feeling with no testing or even a commonly known philosophy stating the ideas is this: If you are aware a collective consciousness could affect a process you are involved in, you may chose to disbelieve the effectiveness and negate the entire effort as it relates to you. Others that are not aware may be affected from the collective ideas.

For myself, I do not believe in being controlled by the media or advertising, and make almost all of my choices without being affected. The key is I avoid both of them as much as possible. The DVR can change what you are exposed to and if you are aware of subliminal queues and NLP, as well as make safe veiwing choices you are 100% better off than most of the population. Of course you won't drink much pepsi or eat toaster strudel often, but you can make those choices on your own without help. That old saying "kill your t.v." is a good one. Dumbing it down is almost as good.

Again this is all just personal belief, but that is the only way to relate to the question. I can only reference one occult text that describes anything close to the idea and its in a different situation alltogether.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Some fears help guide us away from danger, as Skyfloating points out, and helps us stay on our optimal path. But some types of fear, and I am not exactly perfectly clear on the distinction, (perhaps it is body/physical fear vs mental/ego fear,) actually guides us AWAY from our optimal path. Skyfloating feel free to clarify the difference between these types of fear, I would love to understand that better myself as it is where I tend to lock myself up as well.

Disclaimer: All of my views are personal opinion only, never "the truth".

Imo all type of fear is guidance-fear as described earlier. The fear only becomes a problem when it is not used to switch to the right path (of ease, joy, courage), but suppressed or held on to (which is the same thing).

The Analogy was that without fear I would be jumping off the balcony while smiling like an idiot. Fear shows me the inappropriatness of an action or thought/belief or circumstance. If I do not listen to the signal and do not take the fear as what it is meant for...a signal, a barometer, an indicator...or I start getting afraid of the fear, then it becomes the type of fear you are talking about...and may even spread to other things unrelated to the original signal. This type of fear inhibits proper perception, action, communication.

Another way to see it:

Energy flows through the body.

When it flows through a helpful belief-filter the energy is felt as joy/peace.

When it flows through an unhelprful belief-filter the energy is felt as fear.

In this sense fear and joy/love are the very same energy flowing through different filters. Suppressing the fear is therefore suppressing life-energy.


You know whats funny though? How this thread has 53 flags and only 2-3 people, sometimes 4 engaging in conversation.

Originally posted by Illahee
For myself, I do not believe in being controlled by the media or advertising, and make almost all of my choices without being affected. The key is I avoid both of them as much as possible. The DVR can change what you are exposed to and if you are aware of subliminal queues and NLP, as well as make safe veiwing choices you are 100% better off than most of the population. Of course you won't drink much pepsi or eat toaster strudel often, but you can make those choices on your own without help. That old saying "kill your t.v." is a good one. Dumbing it down is almost as good.

I like to measure TV-shows in BPM....beliefs-per-minute...of course accompanied by imagery/sound they do have their hypnotic effect.

Which is why I recommend to people to watch movies which present something they would like to create for themselves, and allow themselves to be hypnotized and touched by it.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Time, we have been conditioned to believe, is linear past-present-future.

Imagination, we have been conditioned to believe, is not-solid, insubstantial, has little meaning or effect on physical reality, is without substance, etc.

Once my I loosened my definitions of time, space and imagination a bit, more of this "stuff" started happening. Some call them "reality shifts".
They have not happened fully intentionally to me....the car-dent being gone took me by surprise.

There has been other stuff...about one "miracle" every two years is the rate for me. The ingrained belief that these things are "far out", "miracles", "wowzaaaaaaaaaaaa", "weird", "far-out maaaaan" actually makes them occur much less. By declaring them unnormal we seperate from them.

To answer your question, yes Ive experienced the reverse of cause-and-effect on a few ocassions. But not before I was familiar with the concept that I could "change the past".

Great points here.

I do firmly believe in the concept that time is NOT linear, as we have been conditioned to believe.

When sitting an exam, for example, i will NEVER start even thinking that i have done badly, not even after the test is complete. I have always thought that if i say that i did badly in the test then that belief will manifest itself backwards, so to speak, and perhaps some of those guesses i made will turn out to be incorrect.

However, if i walk out with nothing but a positive outlook, regardless of how i actually went, then perhaps that belief in myself will create a reality where some of those guesses i made were actually correct.

I described this concept to my girlfriend and ever since, be it by coincidence or not, her results have improved. Just an interesting example of changing the past in the present.

The use of this concept with the car dent would work but i think you are right about your reaction to it. If you had gotten worked up about it then i doubt you could have changed it posthumously.


Just wanted to add that this thread has been invaluable with some great advice. Thanks to all

sorry for the double-post here, just finished reading what i had missed in the thread

I know this may be somewhat off-topic now but i wanted to quickly comment on the multi-verse theory as it relates to LOA.

Every moment of our lives we are subconsciously making choices between potential realities and outcomes - choosing between channel 2 and 3 for example.

The LOA practitioner makes these choices consciously by 'attracting' or tuning in to channel 3 for instance.

So if we lock into channel 3 and that particular reality unfolds, does channel 1, 2, 4, 5, etc, etc continue on as a reality similar to the multi-verse model?

I would assume it does, but just wanted to hear some quick opinions.


Additionally, in regards to the media debate.

Recently on Australian TV they have been show adverts stating "There is nothing healthy about a tan" and showing a clear animation of how skin cells get damaged and turn into cancerous cells and how they then can move through the body, in the bloodstream, and pass the cancer in to other organs.

My thought was that i wonder if this sort of an ad could potentially lead to an increase in skin cancers as people are now very open to how this could occur and therefore may open themselves to that reality.

Lets say channel 8 was you getting skin cancer.

Now that people have seen this advert and have a clear understanding of how this can occur, will more people inadvertently tune to channel 8?

In the past people said a tan was healthy, if they now believe (due to the ad) that it isn't, then could their tans start having an unhealthy affect on them?

I hope that made sense...

Although we had the technology for a while we have never seen the level of sophistication in the art of manipulation that has come across the screen in the last 10 years. This is all uncharted ground in the last great frontier, our own minds. 100 years from now they may look back and examine us the way we look at using large amounts of mercury in medicine in the past.


Because each person creates their own reality I am convinced there is no harm at all in choosing a coach with a good track record for guidance in that work. More so if you have difficulty in grasping the concepts.

It would be wrong for me to state a particular package for anyone but myself since I know all about me. A coach will ask the right questions to learn all about you and then select the correct tailor made techniques for success. For this very reason the commercialization and one size fits all dvds should be avoided, unless we are administering clones that are all the same.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
You know whats funny though? How this thread has 53 flags and only 2-3 people, sometimes 4 engaging in conversation.

People are afraid to let their freak flag fly and possibly wind up with the nut job award. Some of us wear the award as a badge of honor for not being like the others.

It does seem like too much golden material for not much response. If one was to copy all of the posts so far dissect them into thoughts and list them in an outline....

Originally posted by srsen

When sitting an exam, for example, i will NEVER start even thinking that i have done badly, not even after the test is complete. I have always thought that if i say that i did badly in the test then that belief will manifest itself backwards, so to speak, and perhaps some of those guesses i made will turn out to be incorrect.

Its somehow nice to see someone else with streams of thought like this.

Originally posted by Illahee

Originally posted by Skyfloating
You know whats funny though? How this thread has 53 flags and only 2-3 people, sometimes 4 engaging in conversation.

It does seem like too much golden material for not much response.

Honestly, I sort of fizzled out when the whole "what is reality, anyways?" thing popped it's ugly head out. Thanks, but I'll go rearrange my garage first,

I'm still very intrigued by all of this, but I feel like it's already gone over my head about 4 pages ago. Now the waters are a bit too deep to just dive in.

Originally posted by srsen

I know this may be somewhat off-topic now but i wanted to quickly comment on the multi-verse theory as it relates to LOA.

Thats not off-topic but spot on.

[
Every moment of our lives we are subconsciously making choices between potential realities and outcomes - choosing between channel 2 and 3 for example.

The LOA practitioner makes these choices consciously by 'attracting' or tuning in to channel 3 for instance.

So if we lock into channel 3 and that particular reality unfolds, does channel 1, 2, 4, 5, etc, etc continue on as a reality similar to the multi-verse model?

I would assume it does, but just wanted to hear some quick opinions.

That was brought up earlier in the thread. Its my opinion that all channels are constantly running according to exactly that multiverse model.
Does the smiley you posted on another thread stop to exist just because you no longer see it? No, its still there, still moving its little face. You just dont experience it, it has no relevance to you.

This is a reason why I no longer subscribe to systems of teaching that advise one to "get rid of" something or other. Within infinity, it is impossible to get rid of anything. All one can do is change the importance/relevance of something by shifting ones attention.

So, in the analogy we dont beat against the TV-Set. Neither do we drive to the TV-Studio and beat up on the studio execs. Instead we switch channel.

If someone has a spider-phobia, you dont attempt to get rid of all spiders in the world, but shift the persons interest-level.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by srsen

When sitting an exam, for example, i will NEVER start even thinking that i have done badly, not even after the test is complete. I have always thought that if i say that i did badly in the test then that belief will manifest itself backwards, so to speak, and perhaps some of those guesses i made will turn out to be incorrect.

Its somehow nice to see someone else with streams of thought like this.

I think like this too, but I attribute it to people mind-screwing themselves. Once you start second guessing every move, you destroy your self confidence and then all you negative or paranoid thoughts become self-fulfilling prophecies. Again, this is all neatly and clearly explained in terms of NLP. I have yet to see an explanation of this in terms of LoA that made sense. Most of the time, I understand the concepts being presented... they just don't make sense to me, logically.

For example, get 5 different NLP practitioners to explain the concept of future pacing, or anchoring. I'll step out on a limb and assume 4, if not all 5 will explain the concept in similar ways, that all make sense.

Take 5 random people that preach LoA, and get them to explain how it 'works.' I would be amazed, and perhaps closer to "believing" in the further out qualities associated with it, if those 5 people explained it in similar terms.

Originally posted by srsen

Additionally, in regards to the media debate.

Recently on Australian TV they have been show adverts stating "There is nothing healthy about a tan" and showing a clear animation of how skin cells get damaged and turn into cancerous cells and how they then can move through the body, in the bloodstream, and pass the cancer in to other organs.

My thought was that i wonder if this sort of an ad could potentially lead to an increase in skin cancers as people are now very open to how this could occur and therefore may open themselves to that reality.

Lets say channel 8 was you getting skin cancer.

Now that people have seen this advert and have a clear understanding of how this can occur, will more people inadvertently tune to channel 8?

In the past people said a tan was healthy, if they now believe (due to the ad) that it isn't, then could their tans start having an unhealthy affect on them?

Just my two cents: In the context of LOA, stuff like this does of course have an effect. Not as strong of an effect as some paranoids claim, but it does effect the belief-systems of the gullible. The higher effect is (imo) created by the individuals responses to it or if the ad were to be repeated thousands of times.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

[
Every moment of our lives we are subconsciously making choices between potential realities and outcomes - choosing between channel 2 and 3 for example.

That was brought up earlier in the thread. Its my opinion that all channels are constantly running according to exactly that multiverse model.

I am thoroughly enjoying the cable-channel reference. I find it to be a perfect analogy to multidimensional concepts. Just like cable, you are getting all channels at once - yet you can only filter one at a time.

Does the smiley you posted on another thread stop to exist just because you no longer see it? No, its still there, still moving its little face. You just dont experience it, it has no relevance to you.

heh... well.... actually, in terms of coding, and in terms of philosophy / LoA - it both exists and doesn't exist.

It doesn't exist, except as a small set of characters in a database. it only becomes a smiley when you go to that page (the act of observation). yet, even then the smiley isn't "existing" on any page at all, it's just energy.

I guess this is where we part ways in logic - as you seem to claim that energy showing the smiley face is the same as the energy that makes up the keyboard I am hacking away on. I beg to differ, however they each have their own places.

Originally posted by scientist


I think like this too, but I attribute it to people mind-screwing themselves. Once you start second guessing every move, you destroy your self confidence and then all you negative or paranoid thoughts become self-fulfilling prophecies.

awww now....its just a little speculative extraploation. No harm done

Again, this is all neatly and clearly explained in terms of NLP. I have yet to see an explanation of this in terms of LoA that made sense. Most of the time, I understand the concepts being presented... they just don't make sense to me, logically.

For example, get 5 different NLP practitioners to explain the concept of future pacing, or anchoring. I'll step out on a limb and assume 4, if not all 5 will explain the concept in similar ways, that all make sense.

Take 5 random people that preach LoA, and get them to explain how it 'works.' I would be amazed, and perhaps closer to "believing" in the further out qualities associated with it, if those 5 people explained it in similar terms.

From the age of 24 to 26 I gave NLP-classes and later NLP-Practitioner classes. I then abandoned NLP (just like Richard Banlder all but abandoned it) for other stuff. Today I teach my own weird variation of LOA.

Should make for an interesting discussion...loa vs. nlp. I´d be able to keep up with your vocabulary.