I'm a little frazzled form an all-nighter, but I'm loving this thread!

I've found the techniques to be invaluable in the past, and I'm pretty sure it will work again in the future within the limits I give myself.

As soon as I can settle my mind down a bit more, I'll start applying more focused constructs.

Flag and Star! Thanks for a true ATS thread!

Originally posted by starstuck
Yes I agree the phrasing is quite obvious, so perhaps rephrasing in my heart will help to turn the tables. It is a bit weird though, because I am not at all a practicer, in my preferred hobby which is music, I perform, I never practice
and I love music for that because the magic of performing without a safety net is the biggest thrill I know.

it would seem that music is the place where you can effortlessly "let it flow" rather than what you described about "becoming a global player". So
there´s two choices: Resort to stuff already flowing (such as music) or combine that already-flowing thing with money-making, or try to get into a similar flow for your profession. If you could tackle a project in the same manner you make music....wow....youd start overflowing with cash.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
I may have to U2U you some questions some time. Unless of course, that is why you didn't want to divulge that information before. If you don't want people soliciting advice, I completely understand.

I am not keen on this becoming another "oh spiritual master, please give me advice" thread.

In fact, seeing someone else as "higher" than onseself, somewhat denigrates ones own creation-abilities, doesnt it?

Nevertheless, I enjoy answering good questions, simply because I have a lot to say after a lifetime of working with the stuff.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant

Perhaps that (lucid dreaming I mean) is proof that somehow we are gods in god preschool (this reality) or womb so to speak. To put it simplisticly.
Just a thought.....

[edit on 13-1-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Thats the conclusion many people have come to that were dabbling in these topics since a long time.

The more you know, the more mysterious and fascinating it all gets.

Originally posted by WraothAscendant

To be honest with you I LOVE the mystery of it, it's all so well wierd.
Sure I would love to know exactly, but then I would grow bored and the world would lose its magic for me, and well that would really really suck.

After all the journey is far more important then the goal will ever be.
And we are all on some sort of journey, IMHO.

[edit on 13-1-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Not so much a ramble as you just touched on something important: All these people wanting a "final solution", "enlightenment", "winning the lottery" are (imo imo imo) missing the point of being alive on this planet...with surprise, challenge and excitement.

So how do you change the subconscious? I became very interested in this subject after watching the Secret but after mushing it around in my mind for a while it seemed like an almost impossible feat to try to get your subconcious to change the attraction process. If a person has 20, 30 , 40 , 50 years of "logic" imprinted on their subconscious, how would they change that?
For instance, I can visualize and put myself into my dreams (Living on some land, growing our own food, making our own products and selling them, bringing in enough money to not have to worry, raising our children and keeping them safe and happy) but if my subconscious does not bend because of a lifetime of negative thoughts then how would my conscious override my subconscious?
Does that make sense? It was always something I had a problem with with The Secret.
I do, however, believe beginning this though process with my children at a young age before their subconscious has been negatively affected would have the power to bring wonderful experiences to their lives.

Another area that seems conflicting, we are taught all of our lives that if we want to be succesful in all areas of our lives we must work for it, we must grab life by the reigns and control our own destinys "No Pain, No Gain" so it is ingrained in us. So many times in my life ceratin things have happened and I believed those things were happening to get closer to my dream but when I followed (grabbed them) those things they all led me to dead end.
So with the laws of attraction do we sit back and let our dreams happen or do the laws of attraction bring you the correct ingredients and we actually have to work to make them happen?

[edit on 13-1-2008 by WraothAscendant]

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
So how do you change the subconscious? I became very interested in this subject after watching the Secret but after mushing it around in my mind for a while it seemed like an almost impossible feat to try to get your subconcious to change the attraction process. If a person has 20, 30 , 40 , 50 years of "logic" imprinted on their subconscious, how would they change that?

Thanks for the good input to lively up this thread. "Law of attraction" is a little bit different than contemporary "positive thinking" in that you are not required to UNDO negativity or override the "subconscious". You could have been travelling on highway 1 for 30 years but you can take an exit to highway 2 within a few days. This only becomes difficult when you are working to "undo" highway 1, analyze highway 1, "handle" highway 1, "override" highway 1.

For instance, I can visualize and put myself into my dreams (Living on some land, growing our own food, making our own products and selling them, bringing in enough money to not have to worry, raising our children and keeping them safe and happy) but if my subconscious does not bend because of a lifetime of negative thoughts then how would my conscious override my subconscious?

Rather than practicing to override something, you can practice that vision you just mentioned. One day you visualize it (dream it). The next you write a film-script detailing it. The next you act it out in pantomime. The next you actively follow a few opportunities that have presented themselves which may be connected to that vision. The next day you talk about that vision and talk yourself into a sort of pleasant "buzz" about it...and all of a sudden the idea of that vision being true doesnt seem ALL that unlikely anymore. You have progressed from level 1 (total disbelief) to level 2 (maybe it could be true). Just continue with the same type of focus to level 3 (hm....I can feel this could be real) and to level 4 (wow...this is going to happen) and to level 5 (oh my god...this is really starting to happen) and level 6 and so on.

Does that make sense? It was always something I had a problem with with The Secret.
I do, however, believe beginning this though process with my children at a young age before their subconscious has been negatively affected would have the power to bring wonderful experiences to their lives.

I opened this thread because I think the popularized movie "the secret" is a bit too watered down to grasp the whole picture. As already mentioned earlier, I do not acknowledge negativity as something "bad" or "blocking" or "hindering" me, but as a useful tool to determine where I stand and what I want instead. An example: If it rains, that might be negative for some, but not for the umbrella-salesman. And not for me either because I use it as an opportunity to stay at home and get some stuff done. Or as an inspiration for booking a trip to the sunshine. This is metaphorically speaking on "negativity".

Another area that seems conflicting, we are taught all of our lives that if we want to be succesful in all areas of our lives we must work for it, we must grab life by the reigns and control our own destinys "No Pain, No Gain" so it is ingrained in us. So many times in my life ceratin things have happened and I believed those things were happening to get closer to my dream but when I followed (grabbed them) those things they all led me to dead end.

Yes, "no pain, no gain" is the consensus view on this planet. Its like paddling upstream a river. It makes you stronger, but doesnt necessarily achieve the fullfillment of something in the fastest way possible.

So with the laws of attraction do we sit back and let our dreams happen or do the laws of attraction bring you the correct ingredients and we actually have to work to make them happen?

It does take some deliberate practice but not in the sense of "hard discipline" or "hard work". Work/Action is fine (as long as it matches that dream), but, as already mentioned in this thread, its not the primary effective force in creation. Thats where a lot of people still have a lot of confusion on the subject.

Hope that helps.

Excellent thread. It's good to see that the poster has devoted a great part of his their life to it.

I agree I believe in the power of thought, and that the universe is a thoughform, and we are the universe, experiencing itself. That love is the ultimate productive force, and light is a perception within the spirit, but it bothers me a little when it is watered down as someone says. I like when they try to meet us on middle ground, for some people rely on logic, whereas some people have a little more faith. We need to see that science and religion are one in the same, and we need to break down those boundaries. After-all, science requires an open-mind, and a lot of faith in ones theories. It bothers me too when I hear scientists say "That's not scientifically feasable". For me to accept that statement, I want to hear them say they have unlocked all the mysteries of the universe. Don't they see that the "wacky" ideas create science? It's ok to demand an enormous amount of proof to support the claims, but you know... some people will never be satisfied. To me there's no such thing as proof, and that it really relies on that part of us inside that says "this is truth, truth to myself"

It just botheres me when people use the word "impossible"

Anyways, as I was saying, it's good to see the poster knows his stuff better then most. People respond more to research then someone's own personal wisdom. Both are equally good in my opinion.

Great thread.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Karlhungis
I may have to U2U you some questions some time. Unless of course, that is why you didn't want to divulge that information before. If you don't want people soliciting advice, I completely understand.

I am not keen on this becoming another "oh spiritual master, please give me advice" thread.

In fact, seeing someone else as "higher" than onseself, somewhat denigrates ones own creation-abilities, doesnt it?

Nevertheless, I enjoy answering good questions, simply because I have a lot to say after a lifetime of working with the stuff.

Ha, yes, you're absolutely right, in acknowledging that is what you must do when asking any advice from anyone. You have to know you are completely equal, and that nothing is lesser or greater then you. But simply on your path you think, maybe it wouldn't hurt if I stopped asked for directions? . For the past few years I've been asking all sorts of questions and it wasn't until a little while ago that I realised I don't care anymore, and that at this point in time, I need to figure out everything for myself. Hearing what others had to say has given me a good "base". Now it's time for me to work on that.

And rather, when you DO ask for directions on your path, you are really asking yourself. For when you seek knowledge from outside sources, you must still question it within, to decide what to make of the information.

That's why I like to think of truth in layers. We take it to the next step when we are ready.

It's like... one day you feel comfortable knowing the earth is round, the next day you're ok with the idea of planets, and galaxies... And then one day you're thinking on the sub-atomic level. All stages we see as truth to ourselves, but pick and choose what to make of everything.. Only when we are ready can we take it to the next level. And to me this is what life is all about.

Originally posted by CavemanDD
I agree I believe in the power of thought, and that the universe is a thoughform, and we are the universe, experiencing itself. That love is the ultimate productive force, and light is a perception within the spirit, but it bothers me a little when it is watered down as someone says. I like when they try to meet us on middle ground, for some people rely on logic, whereas some people have a little more faith. We need to see that science and religion are one in the same, and we need to break down those boundaries. After-all, science requires an open-mind, and a lot of faith in ones theories. It bothers me too when I hear scientists say "That's not scientifically feasable". For me to accept that statement, I want to hear them say they have unlocked all the mysteries of the universe. Don't they see that the "wacky" ideas create science? It's ok to demand an enormous amount of proof to support the claims, but you know... some people will never be satisfied. To me there's no such thing as proof, and that it really relies on that part of us inside that says "this is truth, truth to myself"

There is this huge multi-floor department store. In this gigantic department store, there is one department called "science". And in this department called science, there is one small rack called "skeptics". And in this rack, there is a tiny shelf called "skeptics vs. believers" debate.

The rest of the department is fine. The rest of the department store is also highly interesting.

All these people wanting a "final solution", "enlightenment", "winning the lottery" are (imo imo imo) missing the point of being alive on this planet...with surprise, challenge and excitement.

This is beyond "important" - for me, for my life, it is crucial.

You see, I have an unbelievably effective "creative imagination" - or maybe I should say, I HAD it. Once I became fully aware of what was happening, once I realised I could, in fact, endlessly visualise - and make become - happy situations to the last detail... a strange, poignant sadness enveloped my heart. It was precisely what you said: I thought it was terrible to be able to dictate one's life, depriving oneself of the excitement and wonder of sweet surprises. So much so that it has paralysed me. And the only surprises I get lately are of the bitter kind.
And yet...

So, yes, as you can see, it's a hugely important question, a very non-trivial quandary. And I am not saying my attitude is "right"; I would love to overcome it.

(In fact, I am writing a novella about it. Or should I say: it is writing itself...
It may even grow into a novel. I hope it doesn't - but such things are out of my hands. )





[edit on 13-1-2008 by Vanitas]

Originally posted by j_kalin

This is an interesting thread. I have been studying this subject recently. It's strange, but I think I have intuitively used this system all my life, but it became clearer when I read The Secret exactly what I had been doing.

Not too strange. Everyone is actually already an expert in it, as everyone thinks, speaks, feels and acts all their life. The only difference is to do it a bit more consciously (thinking, speaking, writing, feeling) or more selectively.

I started with the secret, then went on to read the Hick's books which were helpful. Are there any specific books which you would recommend?

The hicks books are helpful, yes. I´ll add my recommended-books-list to this thread later. Its often helpful not too read too much at once but apply what has already been read/learned. Thats intellectualizing vs. experiencing.

There is so much out there, that I don't have the time to read them all. On a personal note, I have successfully used the LOA to achieve/acquire things, but my problem is that they sometimes arrive via some very unpleasant and disturbing events...I feel like I have an extremely powerful ability to manifest things, but I don't know how to guide their creation. Is there a way to make my desires manifest via positive circumstances rather than negative ones? Or, do I have to just trust the universal mind to do things as it sees fit?

If you create something new within an existing old context, some chaos can arise. Analogy: You create a new room within an old house. That means a bunch of bulldozers and construction workers are gonna make a lot of noise and dirt to tear down the old walls in order to build in the new. This is why practitioners often compare their intended reality to the realities already in place, to see how well they match. The Youniverse selects the quickest way for something to manifest without caring at all about the changes that entails. Thats why its wise to go gentle in your work. Difficulty is also often the result of our indoctrinated belief of what "change" means. So, in your case you may want to deliberately intend the way you want your creation to work. You set an "intention about your intentions". "Up to now manifesting has worked very well for me, but it always involves chaos. I would like my intentions to unfold in a more gentle way".

Crickets?

I tend to agree that these folks have deep seeded emotional issues which have become so ingrained into their being that they are subconsciously allowing them to dominate their emotions. If you cant feel genuine happiness, how will you attract things which make you happy into your life?

OH no, no! That's just it: they are people with quite extraordinary talent for happiness! That is precisely why I call them "crickets" - because the cricket (in the fable) spends the "summer" (of life) happily singing his heart out, instead of worrying about oncoming winters.

And THAT's precisely why this is such a puzzle to me. It's humanly impossible to have a more joyful heart than a cricket...