Special Forces Convo : Originally Called 'For all those people who think the American Special Force

Well, thank you for the compliments. Revenge, have you read my post? 11 - 1 is a pretty good record for 300 years? I dunno..your arguement is based solely on opinion - mine is based on solid fact.

-wD

a) WW1 was not the Nazi's first attempt to take over the world, it created the Nazis.
b) The American Independance War was mainly fought (in terms of the 'british' soldiers there) by mercenaries, the commander-in-chief falsely estimated the problem to be minimal.
c) For me, I think you can compare SF by looking at their selections, trainings, successes, andd generalization of their skill (e.g. how many different things they are specialized in).

AS A FOLLOW UP

150 SAS soldiers are being sent to hunt for Osama Bin Laden. I heard nothing about SEALs, Delta, etc.

Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
If the US forces arent elite, how come America is the most powerful nation in the world?

Because we're the richest nation in the world...

National debt is massive though.

But still, you're powerful because you export technology.

Ok now I'll be the first to admit my info is dated but I was in the US Marines from 1983-1987 and spent the first 2 years as part of the security detachment onboard USS Kittyhawk. Well I Gung Ho XO liked to send us to every single training opportunity that came up, well because of this we got to train with 2 different SEAL teams, the British SAS and the Australian SAS. The SEALs and British SAS were about equal (differences in the missions of the SEAL teams make it an apples and oranges comparison) I was unimpressed by the Australians and thought that ROK commandos were though as titanium nails!

I've heard that Australians have had their SAS tabs removed recently because they do not meet the same standards as the Brits.

Never trained with any of the Eastern bloc troops but Brazilian jungle troops are AWESOME but only in their own yard.

USMC recon and Snipers are awesome but again different mission so it is apples and oranges again

Originally posted by browha
AS A FOLLOW UP

150 SAS soldiers are being sent to hunt for Osama Bin Laden. I heard nothing about SEALs, Delta, etc.

They are being sent to releive Delta Forces whom inturn relieved the SEALS

I know the SAS/SBS train several specail units around the world

I have also heard they send SAS in when other special forces fail (One with about 15 US Delta failed/ I dunno if its ture or not)

But i do remember when 3 SAS took out an entire base cave network of around 150 Enemys (I think 150 sounds right) in the afghan war (Just 3 SAS no other support such as air)

[Edited on 23-2-2004 by Crash]

Originally posted by browha
AS A FOLLOW UP

150 SAS soldiers are being sent to hunt for Osama Bin Laden. I heard nothing about SEALs, Delta, etc.

You hear nothing about SEAL's or DELTA Force because they choose to keep quiet about their operations.

Originally posted by browha
Quote, from Duncan Falconer (Ex-SBS)'s autobiography,
P409, 'The US Navy Seals, for instance, the US's primary special forces unit and the most heavily funded, and some ten times the size of the SBS, had only one operative allowed to set foot inside Iraq during the entire war, and that was as a guest of the SBS during their first mission, and only then because he happened to have been attached to the SBS prior to the outbreak of war.'

Score, 1-0, Fulltime.

this goes to show ya that our conventional forces are just that good and we didnt need the seals or any spec op group

Yeah, you 'won' the first gulf war, didnt you?
No losses due to SCUDs or anything, right?
Moron.
SAS/SBS spent all their time looking for SCUD launchers because your 'spec ops' etc werent up to the job? Marine Force Recon? what do they recce, the local macdonalds?

I think the 150-3 quote above is true, certainly something around that number is definitely correct.

We get publicity because the stunts achieved are so death-defying, and we dont play video games so we understand the proportion, whereas your average 'homie' in America would think 'Oh, I've done that in Delta Force a hundred times'...
...
...
Damn Americans

SAS/SBS spent all their time looking for SCUD launchers because your 'spec ops' etc werent up to the job? Marine Force Recon? what do they recce, the local macdonalds?

For a supposed Special Forces expert, you are an idiot. Our Spec Ops weren't up to the job? Where do you base that off of?

We get publicity because the stunts achieved are so death-defying, and we dont play video games so we understand the proportion, whereas your average 'homie' in America would think 'Oh, I've done that in Delta Force a hundred times'...

Actually, I think I speak for all Americans when I say this, we don't. Just cause you see it on TV (something I suspect you do a lot of), doesn't make it true.
...
...
Damn Americans
Yep, same ones that keep bailing your asses out.

When have you ever bailed us?
Iraq, we came to help you fight the war.
We backed you in the U.N. Security Council.
You dont even give us any contracts to help develop British industry in Iraq.
Falklands, thanks for helping there.
Give me THREE instances when you have bailed us out.
Who said I saw it on the television? These are confirmed sources from inside the MoD writing in papers, etc.
I also happen to know people who are current/ex-SAS and served in Iraq.
I also happen to know an mi5 person who knows a heck of a lot about this sort of area.

So begone and learn something, moron.


Edit:
Did Spec Ops help to find Scuds? go find some info about it if they did. Otherwise shut up?

[Edited on 24-2-2004 by browha]

Originally posted by browha
When have you ever bailed us?
UMM, WWI, WWII?
Iraq, we came to help you fight the war.
We did not need your help, but it was appreciated.

We backed you in the U.N. Security Council.
We have done the same for you on numerous occasions

You dont even give us any contracts to help develop British industry in Iraq.
Actually we did, and you do have some current contracts right now.

Falklands, thanks for helping there.
You are such an idiot. If you do not know how we helped you, then I feel sorry for you. Without us you would have had a much more difficult time.

Give me THREE instances when you have bailed us out.
There were several instances when our personnel risked our equipment to pick up some of your flyboys who were shot down.

Who said I saw it on the television? These are confirmed sources from inside the MoD writing in papers, etc.

So, that must mean it is true right?

I also happen to know people who are current/ex-SAS and served in Iraq.
I also happen to know an mi5 person who knows a heck of a lot about this sort of area.

How do you know them, are you a grouppie? I am sure that these people tell you all kinds of classified stuff all the time, right?

So begone and learn something, moron.

If anyone needs to learn something here it is you.

Edit:
Did Spec Ops help to find Scuds? go find some info about it if they did. Otherwise shut up?

SEAL TEAM 5 and the Army's A-teams were specifically tasked to locate and target SCUD launchers, which were then taken out by US Aircraft. How many of them did you guys get, what's that I can't hear you.



[Edited on 24-2-2004 by browha]

Better luck next time.

WW1 we didnt technically need you, the war was being won whilst we were there. In fact, if it wasnt for your President, Mr. Wilson, the Nazis would not have come to power.
WW2, Hitler sent a message to Mexico telling them to invade America. If America hadnt declared war, you would probably be part of Mexico now.

How did you help in Falklands? Instead of just calling me a moron, illustrate with examples.
Or the contracts in Iraq. Illustrate.
The things we are discussing here arent technically classified, and even if they were, there is plenty of information about them in the public domain.
Get some connections, lose the ego, maybe we will make a non-ignorant person out of you yet!

Read this:
During the Gulf War, the U.S. capability to counter the Scud threat was negligible. Iraq attacked with approximately 88 Scuds, with 46 striking in the Kuwait Theater of Operations (as far south as Qatar), and 42 in or near Israel. Coalition air forces flew 2,400 Scud strike sorties in an attempt to attack and destroy the elusive mobile launchers. On 42 occasions, patrolling aircraft spotted a launch plume, leading to eight attacks. Overall, tactical aircraft reportedly failed to destroy any Scud launchers.

Scource: Here

Thank you.

--
With regards to how I know them,
friends of parents, parents of friends, etc.

Originally posted by browha
WW1 we didnt technically need you, the war was being won whilst we were there. In fact, if it wasnt for your President, Mr. Wilson, the Nazis would not have come to power.
Let me see if I got this right, you are blaming us for the Nazi's rise to power. Are you serious?

WW2, Hitler sent a message to Mexico telling them to invade America. If America hadnt declared war, you would probably be part of Mexico now.
Right, we live in fear of that every day.

How did you help in Falklands? Instead of just calling me a moron, illustrate with examples.
Here are a few:
Sound profiles for all of there ships.
Logistics support in the way of Hercules that you "borrowed"
Support at the UN for the ousting of Argentina at the Falklands
Information on all of the ships that we sold to them
Need I go on?


Or the contracts in Iraq. Illustrate.
I am not sure where your beef with that comes in. Britain is able to negotiate contracts at will. In fact, only countries that used or supported the use of force in Iraq get to bid on these things. Are you telling me that you support free access to these contracts by countries taht risked nothing?

The things we are discussing here arent technically classified, and even if they were, there is plenty of information about them in the public domain.
Get some connections, lose the ego, maybe we will make a non-ignorant person out of you yet!

I am still waiting for that to happen with you

Here are a few [examples]:

Ok lets see.
Whop-de-frigging-doo?
How did we help you in Iraq? We send soldiers to die for you.

If it wasnt for Woodrow Wilson's stance on German post-war punishments (e.g. extremely light), then there would have been no way for the Germans to have gained the soldiers, etc, that they had when they began WW2. Britian and France wanted to destroy the German regular army completely. Woodrow Wilson wanted Germany restored to it's pre-war status, effectively. I dont want to go into the details of the Treaty of Versailles at the moment though.
Actually, come to think of it, it is America's fault in another way. The League of Nations, created by the Americans, didnt have the Americans in it. If it did, the whole idea behind embargos would have been successful, there would be a strong military force to enforce League decisions, etc.

If you look into it, had the Mexicans invaded you, there would have been some pretty severe losses.
Contracts in Iraq. Ask anyone, the money being used to rebuild Iraq is being 'given' to American corporations. For example (I dont know the details off by heart but they are easily found), a contract to a large American corporation (in which Dick Chaney is a shareholder, I hasten to add), to develop the oil industry.
Not one contract has been awarded in this context.

I am not saying free access etc, I am saying we fought a war to liberate a people, not so large multinational American-run corporations can line their pockets.

Originally posted by browha
Here are a few [examples]:

Ok lets see.
Whop-de-frigging-doo?
How did we help you in Iraq? We send soldiers to die for you.

Prove that.

If it wasnt for Woodrow Wilson's stance on German post-war punishments (e.g. extremely light), then there would have been no way for the Germans to have gained the soldiers, etc, that they had when they began WW2. Britian and France wanted to destroy the German regular army completely. Woodrow Wilson wanted Germany restored to it's pre-war status, effectively. I dont want to go into the details of the Treaty of Versailles at the moment though.

How is that our fault? Weren't you one of the countries that signed a non-aggression pact with the Nazi's?

Actually, come to think of it, it is America's fault in another way. The League of Nations, created by the Americans, didnt have the Americans in it. If it did, the whole idea behind embargos would have been successful, there would be a strong military force to enforce League decisions, etc.

We weren't the only ones to support the formation of the League, Britain was all for it too.

If you look into it, had the Mexicans invaded you, there would have been some pretty severe losses.

From what Mexican forces? At the time they had no Navy to speak of, no real air force, and the army was underequipped.

Contracts in Iraq. Ask anyone, the money being used to rebuild Iraq is being 'given' to American corporations. For example (I dont know the details off by heart but they are easily found), a contract to a large American corporation (in which Dick Chaney is a shareholder, I hasten to add), to develop the oil industry.
Not one contract has been awarded in this context.

What are you talking about? The contracts are being awarded to the country that has the best plan and the best ability to carry out that plan. There have been dozens of contracts that America has lost to other countries that can get the job done better than we can.

I am not saying free access etc, I am saying we fought a war to liberate a people, not so large multinational American-run corporations can line their pockets.

We accomplished the liberation of the people. now we have to once again build up what we destroyed.