Good post Elf. I will agree with what he said about SF being over here way before we got here.

Your forces are regularly sent over to the UK for SBS/SAS supervision for a length of time, 2 years is the normal I believe. Our forces also go over to help train/train with the SEALs...
But the delta force model is the SAS

And I know the SEALs etc were carrying out ops pre-Gulf War, but that was in Kuwait more than Iraq.

First what you have to understand is that the US special forces train with many other agencies and groups around the world. I have herd others that it is just because of better technology that the US special forces are good but that is not true. The US special forces are some of the best trained and performing special forces in the world.

Where is the source?

Our Special forces are badass. You won't know everything they do, they need to keep certain things from the public to protect themselves.

Originally posted by jetsetter
First what you have to understand is that the US special forces train with many other agencies and groups around the world. I have herd others that it is just because of better technology that the US special forces are good but that is not true. The US special forces are some of the best trained and performing special forces in the world.

I'd also like to say that we have one of (if not THE) best trained military in the world.

No, Browha, I mean IRAQ. Not Kuwait. Hell, it was no secret we had forces in Kuwait, I even went there once when I was stationed in Saudi.

No, we had people INSIDE iraq, who technically werent there, if you know what I mean. They have been there for quite some time. You forget, green berets main duties are trainign inssurection and fighting forces, as well as psy ops, not actual combat stuff, though they do that occasionally. SEALS, Delta Force, ect were in Iraq too long before the war, doing stuff, whether recon, psy ops, sabotage, assasinations, ect. But that will never be told, because we werent supposed to be in Iraq. Anyway, our elites were already in Iraq when the war started.

And, for your info, it is common for NATO forces to train together. You send your people to us, we send people over there, sometimes we do exercises together. But we do NOT train under your supervision. The model for the green berets was was French Foriegn legions (please, no jokes).

And Limeys always talk about US having big egos and being arrogant.

New source, C.Q.B. by Mike Curtis, an SAS soldier who actually transferred to the US with his squad and a few others to do an exercise with Delta..
They had just been on a mission, and they were told they were being dropped off for an E&E exercise, with over 70km to walk.

Airlifted to Fort Bragg, we discovered that only two of the [SAS] squadrons had failed to make it back, one of them cas-evacced out with injuries, another suffering from heat exhaustion. The Yanks, however, were conspicuous by their absence. The majority of them had been captured, become lost, or simply failed to make the RV on time. The final scoure by our estimation was: SAS 14, Delta 2.

Also:
[This lead] to further joint exercises, conducted twice annually - one in Britain and the other in America. Each time the organizers tried to make them just a little bit harder than the last, but each time the bell rang, we were there. And each time, Delta came second.

And if anyone is going to start arguing this source with me, he'll know more about it than you so please go out and find a source which clearly says that Delta beats the SAS in the SF Olympiads

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
No, Browha, I mean IRAQ. Not Kuwait. Hell, it was no secret we had forces in Kuwait, I even went there once when I was stationed in Saudi.

No, we had people INSIDE iraq, who technically werent there, if you know what I mean. They have been there for quite some time. You forget, green berets main duties are trainign inssurection and fighting forces, as well as psy ops, not actual combat stuff, though they do that occasionally. SEALS, Delta Force, ect were in Iraq too long before the war, doing stuff, whether recon, psy ops, sabotage, assasinations, ect. But that will never be told, because we werent supposed to be in Iraq. Anyway, our elites were already in Iraq when the war started.

And, for your info, it is common for NATO forces to train together. You send your people to us, we send people over there, sometimes we do exercises together. But we do NOT train under your supervision. The model for the green berets was was French Foriegn legions (please, no jokes).

And Limeys always talk about US having big egos and being arrogant.

-- Either way, I settled with Zedd over Iraq and agreed with him.
-- I dont see why I'd joke about the French Foriegn Legions, they are one of the best in the world
-- US Forces do have big egos and are arrogant It was once said that they couldnt do jungle survival without a hotdog and milkshake, whereas an SAS man could with a toothpaste tube and a razor.. I think that quote is in this thread somewhere.

P.s. how do you get the rank 'fighter'?



[Edited on 13-2-2004 by browha]

Then you obviously have little clue how American military tactics work.

The point isnt to bring back the men alive. Soldiers are often deliberately sacrificed to perform the mission, if it furthers it. The tally at the end of the day isnt done by how many US soldiers come back alive. Its a matter of did the goal get accomplished? then thats the sucess. Not how many come retuning home. American soldiers are expendable, according to our books, thus, lost, dead, or captured troops arent cponsidered a failure. Seems yet another person fails to understand American military logistics.

Not that I think its right of course, they really should work more on preserving soldiers than treating them like expendable fodder, or deliberately suiciding them to get some nefarious goal accomplished. But thats an arguement for something else.

And yes, Elite forces are arrgant bastards, ive known enough in my time, but they have every right to be. However, they do not deny thier arrogance

That is perhaps the most stupid doctorine I know. This is where the point of tact comes into play, instead of sacrificing lives we use tact to win.[
How do you get fighter status?

You get fighter status by engaging in the debate tournament. Or being a difficult, argumentative bitch like myself

I dodnt say it was an intelligent or nice tactic. Its very wasteful. I didnt like being considerted fodder when i was in the army, but, thats American military tactics: achieve the goal, and damn the body count.

My point is, its not a reflection of the quality of our forces, who are just as good as anyone elses: its a reflection of our logistics, higher ranking leadership, mentality, and lack of concern for our own people. Americans arent known for delicasy. perhaps because we have so many bodies in the ranks, and the Brits have fwer, youre a little more cautious with your resources. We on, the other hand, figure if we waste a few lives, well just breed more: there is 300 million of us after all.

Browha, i have read the same book and its got a great passege you havent yet quoted that i think should.
Its the part about the SAS/delta having those trainings together and how SAS were ALOT better than the Deltas.
Its in the book somewhere. i rented it from the library and have returned it already, but if you got the book write that here.

Obesity is a big problem though and should be taken into consideration. I cant go into details about the American nation in terms of how many people could be drafted and passed fit, but in the UK, WW1, 2 out of every 5 men were drafted. Not sure how many were already in the army, and how many were ineligible to the draft due to their jobs, but I am sure that if it came to it, we could draft more fit men than the americans could

Originally posted by TheSwordMaster
Browha, i have read the same book and its got a great passege you havent yet quoted that i think should.
Its the part about the SAS/delta having those trainings together and how SAS were ALOT better than the Deltas.
Its in the book somewhere. i rented it from the library and have returned it already, but if you got the book write that here.

Sure I'll find it... I'm reading the book at the moment maybe I Just havent reached it, do you remember which part it is near?

Originally posted by browha

Originally posted by TheSwordMaster
Browha, i have read the same book and its got a great passege you havent yet quoted that i think should.
Its the part about the SAS/delta having those trainings together and how SAS were ALOT better than the Deltas.
Its in the book somewhere. i rented it from the library and have returned it already, but if you got the book write that here.

Sure I'll find it... I'm reading the book at the moment maybe I Just havent reached it, do you remember which part it is near?

Nah its been a while since i read it.
have you read Ghost force : the secret history of the SAS, by kevin connor?
its the best book on SAS ive found.

I am prety sure I have read that one... I have a large collection of SF books and I'm sure I've read a book about Ghost Force, but I think that was more SEALs-orientated, though maybe I am mistaken and thinking of a different book and crossing memories

I'm reading a lot of books about the SBS at the moment and I'll post quotes that draw comparisons between US and UK forces as I go

US Special Forces had been operating inside Iraq alongside the Kurds in the North and Kuwait in the south long before GW2. Please Biatch!

We were talking the First Gulf War....