Duncan Falconer is full of crap. The Seals were all over Iraq long before any official recognition. Be real. Falconer is a lying punk and should be shot as a traitor to his country.

Duncan Falconer is one of this country's finest soldiers ever, part of a group of elite people who saved thousands of lives during conflicts in the last 10-20 years.
He was the ultimate patriot, he commited 20 years of his life to fighting for his country. What have you ever done? If he should be shot as a traitor, everyone you ever knew including yourself should be burnt till you are half dead and then left in a remote desert without any supplies to die the ultimate death.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
No prob.

As far as the thread itself, it would be like me saying that the SAS is not as elite since Sergeant Andy McNab was captured and tortured in Iraq. There were no Seals captured.

The Andy McNab Story:
Bravo Two Zero - Amazon

Bravo Two Zero - Move starring Sean Bean (Ronin, LoTR)

Actually a great story, although I was shocked at the brutality of the Iraqis during torture. In any case, the point I wanted to make is that a statement like Falconer's, cannot measure how "elite" a unit is. When you are at that level...you are all elite.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Mc nabb is a fing liar that book is far from the truth there have been 3 diffrent storys released 2 of which were stoped by the MOD.due to the m signing contracts of some sort One being CHRIS RYAN also part of bravo two zero that mission was doomed from the start

Agreed.
I dont believe they took on a whole armoured column, or that they were tortured. From my friend's uncle, they were on an incorrect Escape and Evasion route as it stands, heading NW (taking a far longer track) rather than SE as they were supposed to. It was McNab's stupidity as commander which lost those lives.

I really doubt Falconer was privy to the details of Seal Operations. Unless you were part of the mission, you simply know nothing of it. I would rather clean kings cross station with my tounge than listen to this bull#e. Please I have ultimate respect for british and us special forces. Lets not be rediculous about who got down and dirty. They were all there.

I think he would have more access than you?

I never claimed knowledge of US Special Forces Operations during a war. I doubt he got an email brief either. WTF? Dont you know better than that?

It's not a competition between the British elite and the US elite.

The SBS training is different to the Seals training.This is a big generality but British special forces are trained for stamina while US special forces are trained for power.SAS/SBS are ideal for spending a month behind enemy lines.US special forces are probably better at doing an aggressive hit.Though both can do the others speciality very well.

So in an ideal situation you would have SAS/SBS behind enemy lines doing recon but if you wanted a target taken out and it had to be done by troops and you had both at your disposal you fly in US special forces to give the aggressive power hit.

As I said above this is a generality.SAS/SBS have done power hits(Iranian Embassy) US special forces have done recon.It's about the training though.

JB1-
Couldn't have put it any better. SAS members are great lurking around in the desert or the jungle for weeks on end. SEALS get in, hit hard, and get out.

P

Yes, I suppose that is a very fair point to make

It just seems obvious to me.

If I was planning to attack Iraq and I had Australian and Britsh SAS/SBS as well as US special forces at my disposal as in this case.I'd have the SAS/SBS doing recon marking targets and US special forces ready for the first attack or in reserve for targets of opportunity.

I find these SAS v SEALS discussions pointless.They are on the same side.............Thank God!

Though Alas, there may be one day they arent.

Well it seems the most effective elite unit, as agreed by most here, is a unit consisting of some Seals, British SAS/SBS, and even Aussie SAS... throw in some French legionaires and maybe a few Gerkhas and were set to take over the world

This guy claims to be a Spec Forc expert but doesn't seem to realize that the Rangers and Airborne Rangers are considered Special Forces as well.

And how do you know if Navy Seals are in or not in Iraq in the first place? Because the Government said so...doesn't mean it is true, the Seals weren't in Vietnam either if you go back to the historical accounts of that time.

I know a hell of a lot about spec forces and I know Rangers are Spec Forces but the issue we were discussing was on SEALs.

my information on the SEALs was written in a book by an SBS soldier who has a lot of details in his book which can be corroberated against offical reports and other books by former SAS/SBS men

I read somewhere that the SEALs were in the gulf war.
Not in any big action, they only staged attacks on shorelines...

Originally posted by Pyros
JB1-
Couldn't have put it any better. SAS members are great lurking around in the desert or the jungle for weeks on end. SEALS get in, hit hard, and get out.

P

Any by hitting hard you mean what? Hostage Rescue type situations or what?

SAS are elite at hostage situations, trained to fire by instinct and recognize a terrorist in split seconds... reference Iranian Embassy... also hundreds of training exercises they do with foreign nationals and heads of state inside the killing house

Strange how you never hear anyone mention Int 14 when they talk about SAS/SBS.Then again i suppose thats not too suprising as its a bit more secretive and concentrates mainly (used to) on N.Ireland.

Wgatenson -- A Special Forces' eliteness is measured in how competent they are in how many operations/scenarios. If the SEALS were judged inadequete for Iraq, then they would not have sent any/many men... I am not going by numbers, because there are ONLY 400ish SAS and 250ish SBS men...

You dont deploy troops incompetent of fightning in a certain scenario unless you absolutely have to, and the fact that 150,000 troops were there means that it was a pretty committed war effort, so why did they go to war without their elite guys there? Becuase they werent up to the job

That has to be one of the dumbest statements Ive seen in a while, and Ive been around my blonde mother for the past three months!

In case you werent aware, special operations were present in Iraq long BEFORE this was started. Of course, its not something we were broadcasting, seeing how technically, we werent supposed to be there.

That should answer your question, why we didnt send our Elite Forces in with the rest of the invasion: they were already present doing what they have been doing.

If you want to know how long they have been in Iraq, they were there in 95, when we were mainly bombing the Iraqis during the embargo. I was there, not In Iraq, in Saudi, but I found out we had some people over the border doing covert type #, what, I can only guess. I only know a few airlifts and such were made for personell not identified.

So, your assumption our elite forces were not sent to Iraq because of inadequecy is pretty lame: they were already there. preparing for the invasion that has been in the works for over 10 years.

And no, our elites dont train under the supervision of the SAS and SBS.........though both are good, we based our Elites on other models Ill not go into, ya know.