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Here it is: unpiloted airborne SAM bomber!

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posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Israeli R&D company UTG-PRI LTD has developed concept designs of attack spacecrafts, amphibious JSF far superior to F-35, Future Jets and Future Combat Systems, submersible aircraft and missiles carrier, front-derive subs, MDS and BMDS without analogy to secure impregnable air defense of Israel against Qassam and Katyusha rockets, and Iranian and Syrian ballistic missiles threats. Same concerns defense of S. Korea against N. Korea, Taiwan against China. and India against Pakistan.


www.india-defence.com...

Some time ago I posted that Russians are working on the airborne SAM patrol concept which will use retrofitted and possibly unguided cargo planes (IL-76/Antonovs), which will use rotary launchers to carry the entire range of SAMs starting with TOR all the way to S-300/400, thus greatly increasing their range, mobility, response time, area coverage, survivability, the list goes on.

Also new generation long range (over 200km) ramjet hybrid Air-toAir missiles are being considered.

While I could not provide a public source for that particular development, this one is certain and should be take seriously.

The concept of automated aerial paroling with long range missiles has been in the works for years, it is a current reality, and we will see its various developments by the end of this decade.




posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 07:46 AM
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The next step is the airborne laser in a similar platform (Il-76s etc).



If the laser doesn't have the power to perform long distance engagements, then it will be used as an airborne phalanx system to protect the large aircraft.


Fighters, fighter bombers and cruise missiles will be too small to have similar generation onboard lasers, so will be at a disadvantage.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by kilcoo316
The next step is the airborne laser in a similar platform (Il-76s etc).



If the laser doesn't have the power to perform long distance engagements, then it will be used as an airborne phalanx system to protect the large aircraft.


Fighters, fighter bombers and cruise missiles will be too small to have similar generation onboard lasers, so will be at a disadvantage.
Actually the Russians had those in the 80's I even saw a pic of it, I'll try and find it again.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by Lambo Rider
 



Actually the Russians had those in the 80's I even saw a pic of it, I'll try and find it again.


You mean this one?


Ocean Remote Sensing by Airborne Laser Systems

Since beginning work in 1983, the institute has developed and tested a multipurpose airborne laser system that can detect the thermocline in the ocean down to depths of 65 m. The laser platform (helicopter or aircraft) is at an altitude of 500 m. Successful tests have been conducted in the Kara and Barents seas in the Arctic as well as off the Kamchatka Peninsula in the Pacific Ocean. The original purpose of the system was submarine location. This is accomplished by detecting the interference patterns in the surface and subsurface (on the thermocline) wave fields due to passage of a submarine.

The airborne laser for this application is a pulsed Nd:YAG unit with 700 millijoules power output. For thermocline detection the power level is 100 to 150 millijoules (from the third and fourth harmonics of the primary power level) and a wavelength of 532 nm. A 30 cm diameter mirror is used to reflect the laser output signal through a transmitting telescope to the ocean and to receive the return signals.

Over 1,000 hours of airborne testing have been done with this system. Currently it is fitted into a Kamov KA-32 helicopter.


www.wtec.org...



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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ok so this is a unmanned drone that flys delivering Surface to Air Missiles?!?!? it would be a AAM not a SAM. and what about bombs?....... anywho this tech seems a bit far behind sence we have UAV's and self guided missiles. is this like a totally hands off UAV?








Q from T



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by engenerQ
ok so this is a unmanned drone that flys delivering Surface to Air Missiles?!?!? it would be a AAM not a SAM. and what about bombs?....... anywho this tech seems a bit far behind sence we have UAV's and self guided missiles. is this like a totally hands off UAV?


Q from T



Technically yes, it would be AAMs - but I think the point is to slave it to an accompanying radar, be it an S-400, or an airborne array (AWACS). It would also carry huge missiles, more akin to those used on a patriot or S-300/400 - so the engagement ranges are much longer than for a conventional fighter.

Thus you have

-greater mobility of your launch 'site',
- it adds another layer to your defensive grid, making wild weasel missions harder for the other guy,
- and it also adds a bit of kinematic energy to your missiles, for a slightly longer range.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 05:16 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
reply to post by Lambo Rider
 



Actually the Russians had those in the 80's I even saw a pic of it, I'll try and find it again.


You mean this one?


Ocean Remote Sensing by Airborne Laser Systems

Since beginning work in 1983, the institute has developed and tested a multipurpose airborne laser system that can detect the thermocline in the ocean down to depths of 65 m. The laser platform (helicopter or aircraft) is at an altitude of 500 m. Successful tests have been conducted in the Kara and Barents seas in the Arctic as well as off the Kamchatka Peninsula in the Pacific Ocean. The original purpose of the system was submarine location. This is accomplished by detecting the interference patterns in the surface and subsurface (on the thermocline) wave fields due to passage of a submarine.

The airborne laser for this application is a pulsed Nd:YAG unit with 700 millijoules power output. For thermocline detection the power level is 100 to 150 millijoules (from the third and fourth harmonics of the primary power level) and a wavelength of 532 nm. A 30 cm diameter mirror is used to reflect the laser output signal through a transmitting telescope to the ocean and to receive the return signals.

Over 1,000 hours of airborne testing have been done with this system. Currently it is fitted into a Kamov KA-32 helicopter.


www.wtec.org...


Sorry guys if this is going a little off thread, but the Russians can't really claim the above mentioned laser system. You see it has not just been in trials but has been in service with the Royal Australian Navy since the early 90's and it's development stretches back much further. The system is known as LADS (Laser Airborn Depth Sounder) and is allready into it's second generation system. Ostensibly promoted for years publically as a hydrographic survey tool for depths down to 70 or so meters, in more recent times the RAN and Tenix have been admitting to it's mine countermeasures and obvious AsuW applications and use. So in short if the Rusky's are trying to claim this as a first, it aint.

See Tenix website for some details.

LEE.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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Sorry guys if this is going a little off thread, but the Russians can't really claim the above mentioned laser system.


You do you mean “claim”? It’s just a regular technology brief, and I didn’t see anything about “claming” anything, just the description and abilities of the system.

LADS at stated by the manufacturer is a civilian survey tool. If Tenix made attempts to market it as a military asset, so far I haven’t came across anything that would support it.


So in short if the Rusky's are trying to claim this as a first, it aint.


thebozeian, just read the full source. It’s a basic “"Uses of Lidars for ocean remote sensing." Briefing paper.” back from the 90s, and It doesn’t have anything about any “claims”.

In fact the summary clearly states that civilian applications are being considered for the technology which was originally designed specifically for military use.


SUMMARY

While it is clear that most of the work presented to the team was originally supported by major Soviet Navy efforts to successfully do nonacoustic antisubmarine warfare (ASW), the end of the Cold War has provided an opportunity to channel a lot of this enormous investment into civil applications. If these laser systems can be put into service for a reasonable price, then they could find wide use for commercial fisheries development and marine pollution detection and monitoring.


Further more, the work dates back to the very origins of laser technology, as also clearly show in the “Background” section.


BACKGROUND

The Institute of General Physics was founded in 1982. Its director is Academician A.M. Prokhorov, who shared, together with the American Charles Townes, the 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics for their work in developing the laser.


Everybody just please read provided sources in full before making opinion based assumptions, all while factual information is just a mouse click away.

Going back to the topic, this is the most troubling aspect, because as far as I recall “scorched earth” policy has been negotiated out long time ago;


UTG-PRI LTD has designed the Flying Missile Platform (FMP) to loiter as unmanned strategic bombers in enemy's stratosphere. Such systems are impossible to shoot down, since they are equipped with air-to-air missiles to protect them from ground-to-air missiles and can destroy any launched ballistic missile. Said FMP can be armed with a nuclear device, so if hit by enemy missile, the fallout from the nuclear explosion would bury the enemy.


www.india-defence.com...

So factually speaking, while we get all this talk about nuclear terrorism and rouge nuclear states like Iran and North Korea, it is in fact Israel that’s a clear rouge nuclear state, since by simply not acknowledging their nuclear arsenal they simply ignore all nuclear treaties, and now they are actually developing a nuclear device armed unmanned strategic bombers which is designed to loiter over enemy air space and spread nuclear contamination if it is attacked?

Did anybody catch that one? Israelis are going ahead with actual implementation of unmanned, loitering nuclear bombers?

How is that possible in this day and age? After all the ears of Cold War negotiations and treaties, somehow Israelis repeatedly gets away with just ignoring all of the above, and do what ever the heck they want.



posted on Jan, 16 2008 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
You do you mean “claim”? It’s just a regular technology brief, and I didn’t see anything about “claming” anything, just the description and abilities of the system.
No "IT" didn't make the claim, "YOU" did by inference, and posting it without bothering to do your own research, namely reading sources and the preceeding posts. And while we are at it I dont know why you brought up a LADS type system in the first place. Kilcoo (originally) was clearly talking about an aircraft based laser BMDS/CIWS type of laser system, not a survey or sub surface surveillance tool. The hint should have been in the first sentence of my post when I said "Sorry guys if this is going a little off thread.."


LADS at stated by the manufacturer is a civilian survey tool. If Tenix made attempts to market it as a military asset, so far I haven’t came across anything that would support it.
What was that smart crack you made about myself and others needing to read source material? You obviously were suffering from your own occular failure when you read my link and post.

LADS is BOTH a survey tool and surveillance tool if you read the whole thing you will see the point that says, "Strategic defence applications, including amphibious operations, mine countermeasures and anti-submarine warfare".And it clearly shows it is BOTH civil and millitary, hence the reason for the following sentence, "The original LADS has been in routine survey operation with the Royal Australian Navy Hydrographic Service since February 1993".


Further more, the work dates back to the very origins of laser technology, as also clearly show in the “Background” section.
The "background" as you so eloquently put it states that the institute was founded in 1982, NOT the research into a LADS system. Further the research for the Australian LADS system goes back further than this anyway. I might also point out I know someone who was involved in the original research work which dates to the mid/late 70's and they have stated to me that it was originally soley for Naval surveillance work. However it was also realised early on that it would be quite capable of being used for accurate marine survey use. This then bacame a convenient cover story as to it's original intended AsuW purpose and later it's primary peace time use.


Everybody just please read provided sources in full before making opinion based assumptions, all while factual information is just a mouse click away.
Couldnt have put it better myself.


LEE.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 12:33 AM
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reply to post by thebozeian
 



No "IT" didn't make the claim, "YOU" did by inference, and posting it without bothering to do your own research, namely reading sources and the preceeding posts.


thebozeian, you are obviously confusing something here.

Lambo Rider saidht this;


Actually the Russians had those in the 80's I even saw a pic of it, I'll try and find it again.


In return I’ve asked the following;


“You mean this one?”


And provided a link to a source which described a Soviet era militarized airborne laser system, so I really have no clue how you figured that that Russians were making false claims, and now you are saying that it’s me who is making false claims.

Please clarify your self, or just forget about it and stay on topic.


You see it has not just been in trials but has been in service with the Royal Australian Navy since the early 90's and it's development stretches back much further.


The work that began in 1983 was specifically to create a system for KA-32, and as the same source clearly shows that research dates back to the works of A.M. Prokhorov, who “indecently” formed the Institute of General Physics for the development of the system.

[Ex] The institute has nine departments, two independent laboratories, an instrumentation design bureau, and a patent division. The team's visit was primarily concerned with the institute's work in devices for oceanographic research. While several of the departments contribute to marine-related research, the majority of the work is done by the Department of Wave Phenomena. This department is divided into seven laboratories:
Hydrophysics
Applied Optics and Ultraacoustics
Nonequilibrium Macrokinetics
Laser Wave Measurement
Acoustic Ocean Sounding
Physics of Liquid
New Radiation Detectors

The team spent about two and a half hours at the institute. The entire visit was conducted in Professor Bunkin's office, where the team was briefed on the oceanographic-related work of the institute. The majority of this work involves the use of lasers and low frequency acoustics to measure ocean processes.

This can’t be put any simpler, so if it’s still a mystery for somebody, just forget about it and move on.


What was that smart crack you made about myself and others needing to read source material? You obviously were suffering from your own occular failure when you read my link and post.


You know, usually I’m very polite about such things, but please feel free to shove that crap right up the place where your ignorance resides, and I don’t care if a mod deletes this.

I you are looking for piss!ng contest, go and play with the diaper wearing crowd, because it’s not going to happen here.

Nobody asked you about LADS, nobody said anything about Russian claims and nowhere in that brief did they state anything to that effect, so if you got a chip on your shoulder deal with it your self and please keep off topic comments to your self, or feel free to start your own thread.

Good luck you with your ejection, wish you full parachute deployment, and enjoy your shrimp.

On that note, I’ll start another thread just for you;

www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 18-1-2008 by iskander]



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:05 AM
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Here's an on topic response if you want one - the original source is the usual over inflated, verbose, self-confident rubbish that most gunrunners produce. It makes bold claims, without providing a skerick of evidence that they can actually achieve what they are claiming. "Hey, I've built a system that does air to air, air to ground, is pilotless, and can kill all low signature targets, including air to air missiles! We rock!". Uh huh. Until I see something a little more concrete and realistic than your source please excuse my scepticism.

Oh, and it is good to see you are your usual disagreeable self when it comes to discussing things here - it really helps to solidify your position as someone worth listening to...



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by Willard856
 



Here's an on topic response if you want one - the original source is the usual over inflated, verbose, self-confident rubbish that most gunrunners produce.


Here’s another source for you;

www.militaryglobal.com...


It makes bold claims, without providing a skerick of evidence that they can actually achieve what they are claiming. "Hey, I've built a system that does air to air, air to ground, is pilotless, and can kill all low signature targets, including air to air missiles! We rock!". Uh huh. Until I see something a little more concrete and realistic than your source please excuse my scepticism.


It doesn’t matter what kind of claims they are making, this is the most important one regardless if it’s already implemented or not, it’s the INTENT that matters;


Said FMP can be armed with a nuclear device, so if hit by enemy missile, the fallout from the nuclear explosion would bury the enemy. On the other hand, FMP can loiter constantly over the Israeli or US territory, providing the impregnable air defense shield without analogy.


www.militaryglobal.com...

A loitering, nuclear unarmed aircraft is being openly discusses while simply ignoring ALL international agreements and public opinion.

Would you like to have a nuclear armed UAV “patrolling” the skies over your house?



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Could explain the black triangles!! perhaps the US already has them up and running.

mikell



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 05:32 AM
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Sorry, they're going to have unmanned nuclear armed drones flying over their own territory? I really don't think so. And as for the weaponisation of drones (possibly with nukes), welcome to the crappy world we live in.

Edit - Spelling

[edit on 20-1-2008 by Willard856]



posted on Jan, 20 2008 @ 06:05 AM
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reply to post by Willard856
 



Sorry, they're going to have unmanned nuclear armed drones flying over their own territory? I really don't think so.


That’s the point, not over their territory, over their enemies’ territory, thus holding the entire country hostage to nuclear fall out, which is actually worse then orbital bombardment concepts, because those this you you’ll be able to see flying above your head.


And as for the weaponisation of drones (possibly with nukes), welcome to the crappy world we live in.


Sorry, don’t buy that one. The Russians could have said the same about weaponized biological/biogenic agents, and that’s precisely why the civilized world has “disarmament talks” about such things, a world which Israel is obviously is not a part of.

When some poor sucker is accidentally killed by his short circuited toaster oven it’s a tragedy, but when an AI/GPS patrolling UAVs makes an independent decision to engage to destroy, then the Terminator movies stop being just mere entertainment, they turn into prophecies.



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