What is with all the non-conspiracy post?

I truly am at a loss for words. It seems every subject that pops up in the conspiracy for religions forum has nothing to do with a conspiracy.

An example is latest post.

Again, I dont need to post an example, as all the post seem to have little relevance (actually non) to conspiracy. Its all based on debating Theology. [Yes there can be a conspiracy in theology, but Im sure you will agree that most talk is pure theological debates.]

I could almost swear there was a time that ATS said they would move all this to BTS.
After all there is a place for theology there.

But to have a thread like the one above getting people to ask questions about theology...well it doesnt fit in or belong to the realm of conspiracy.

I have some conspiracy stuff for you, doubt people would know what to do with it..heheh.
Seriously though, it does detract from that forum and devalues it. Anytime you see a post the first thought is, "oh another BTS post".

People need a clarification and re-think what it means that there is a conspiracy in religion.
The fact that there are different views on who is saved is theological, not conspiratorial.
Now if you say that these views were made to dupe mankind because they want you to live in their N.W.O. - or whatever, now this is a conspiracy. This goes outside the realms of what is accepted within the thought of religion.

I might not have done justice to the point Im trying to make, but Im sure its obvious to everyone else that the religious forum is turning into the ATS school of apologetics and theological debate. (Apologetics is actually a more appropriate word.)

Peace,

Here is hoping for some true conspiracies - well, we know those dont get posted...

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 11-1-2008 by dAlen]

i've got one...
how about the afct that the bible is/has been used to control the masses for, well, almost two millenia and that certain people are extremely rich and powerful as aconsequence.

does this class as a conspiracy?

opinions please...

Originally posted by monoton
i've got one...
how about the afct that the bible is/has been used to control the masses for, well, almost two millenia and that certain people are extremely rich and powerful as aconsequence.

does this class as a conspiracy?

opinions please...

This is where I am coming from.

I suppose its hard, as a lot of threads which are theological and apologetic in nature - well, they have post within them dealing with conspiracies.

But perhaps those should be pulled out and have their own threads.

In the post I referenced, the O.P. said to check with messianic rabbis for the answer.
Well if you consider that their doctrine is more aligned with their supporters (the baptist) than that of Judaism, you would say that is a conspiracy type subject.

Again it takes knowing theology & apologetics to get to that point...otherwise its a bunch of debates and arguments.

Anyway...

peace

dAlen

I agree, this becoming ridiculous the conspiracy in religions thread is turning into the Gospel and preaching thread.

I think that what people has been complaining about some groups taking over ATS is true.

I love a good conspiracy in Religion but no when is nothing than preaching in it.

Perhaps to stop the problem ATS should change the Thread tittle, To the Gospel thread because that is what is turning into.

...or how about the vaticans' extremely dirty hands after the holocaust ?

by the way how do i upload a picture to my profile? (and no this is not a religious conspiracy)

Originally posted by dAlen
I could almost swear there was a time that ATS said they would move all this to BTS.

i completly agree with you here. and not just the "conspirecys in religion" forum. most of the forums are like that now.

when I first came here, which wasn't long ago, there were conspiracies talked about and hashed out in most forums. now, it seems, most forums are platforms for agendas.

I say....where is the conspiracy? it should be noted in the OP what the author intends to layout as a potential conspiracy from the get go. after all. this is a conspiracy website. all agendas and chit-chat should be moved to BTS or PTS.

its getting hard to follow or contribute to a thread when its just a bunch of bickering. people should stop trying to prove people wrong, and come together on points of agreement. freedom of speech here is taken way out of context. its a tool darn it.....not a weapon. just because you have the right to tell someone they are wrong, doesn't mean you need to. get over it. and find points of agreement to further investigate a CONSPIRACY.

sorry for the rant.

Actually they used show an OP with what it seems a good enough conspiracy then turning into preaching.

But now they are even offering Gospel teachings to Religious views and even starting the threads with only bible quotes.

Yes I have been here long enough to see that this happen from time to time, but of lately is just out of control and allowed to be out of control.



[edit on 11-1-2008 by marg6043]

Have you noticed that about 99.9% of what is discussed in these posts, in the end, result in disappointments, fabrications, fakes, etc. ?

I get the impression that people are searching for some thread of "truth" but are hitting brick walls at every turn. Which will continue to be the case.

In my opinion, since it is evident that people are so hungry for something in the form of truth, perhaps these post regarding religion can provide some sort of base they can touch as a foundation for the evident confusion that seems so widespread here.

reply to post by jdposey


So now the Conspiracy in Religious threads is in an agenda to be turned into the thread of Truth.

Again thanks for proving my point that is indeed an agenda here.

reply to post by JSR


It's not a rant when you're speaking the truth. I completely agree with everything you said, and it's also spot-on accurate of how it is now. Saved me the trouble of typing it out myself.

Ship it to BTS if it's got no conspiracy angle! (unless it is sci/tech, since there is no sci/tech BTS forum)

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Beachcoma]

reply to post by marg6043


Sadly, marg6043 it has been that way for a long time. I think the mods have tried so hard to police that area, but some threads still get through.

Personally,
When I used to be on the computer for hours at a time I would move about 5 threads out of the ATS forum and over to the Faith forum.
I'll probably never be on the computer as much as I used to, but I can give you all some tips for a better Conspiracies in Religions forum. Obviously you all care or this thread wouldn't exist, right?

Here they are:
Bump good conspiracy threads.
Flag good conspiracy threads.
Link to good conspiracy threads in related topics.
Rat out threads that don't belong.

If you build it, it (a quality board) will come.

It's a fair question. Looking into it now.

For future reference, though, this really needs to go to the complaints box. While not a public discussion forum, it does get read and discussed by the staff, and is for exactly problems like this.

Perhaps with all the "preachers" that seemed to have joined as late; they should have thier own "pulpit" section where they won't bother those of us that don't care.

If I suddenly feel the need for the "Word" I will be able to find it in just a couple clicks of the mouse.

They could even have their own cross shaped logo. Neat!

Whaaa, while the choice of avatars falls under the TOS of ATS I also have noticed the increased variety of crosses.

Perhaps this is a way to tell that they are on the same path to enlightenment here in ATS.

Yes, I am afraid I have to agree with you.

Even though I may have been prone to creating such threads or adding a related post to those threads, I would still agree with the original poster, in that there is too much irrelevant material that doesn't fit with the over-all intended theme.

But, in the defense of others, I would have to ask this question:

what is the difference between a conspiracy and a controversy?

Seemingly, if the threads in the Religion catgory are to be thinned out because of this, then how many more threads from the other various groupings would be weeded out?

There are numerous threads that stem from a controversy, which has nothing to deal with conspiracies... and yet, those seem to get the most attention and the most "kudos" from those who should know better.

Then again, how many threads are floating around dealing with 'ask me anything'? Sometimes, something will emerge that might be of general interest towards the ATS community, but all-in-all, those threads are being used, it seems, to boast the author's ego.

And hey, as long as I have your attention... why are there soooo many repeat threads? Used to be, we would have posted a "This thread has been discussed here", linked the previous thread, and closed it (the new thread).

Since my departure a couple years back, up to my return, it seems that ATS has gone through alot of changes... some good, but also alot bad. Is it a case of being too lax? I don't know; but one of the biggest things I've noticed is that alot of the mods / super mods that are listed don't seem to even come on as much as they used to. Granted, times change, priorities change... but the over-all governing factor should remain the same.

If not, you get a bunch of non-related threads that merely repeat themselves every week.

Right now, worldwide, there is a conspiracy against 'Religion' and spirituality in general.

I wrote a thread about it in the religious forum. It didn't have much to do with the actual conspiracy but it had to do with explanation for TRUE spirituality over religion.

This is important, I think. There is a conspiracy against religion and spirituality that is based on people's hated of ORGANIZED religion that needs to be adressed.

As far as 'non conspiracy posts' I have to say that ever since I joined ATS I was astonished at the number of psuedo-skeptics who want NOTHING to do with conspiracy debate. They seem to be here with the sole purpose to STOP discussions of conspiracy by calling it crazy, unfounded etc.... I have noticed that the majority of these people come from a certain organization (ahem, or society) and that they literally gang up on threads that mention their organization.

This is something that needs to be addressed ... the actualyNO-CONSPIRACY posters who are out to stop discussion and belittle people for posting their ideas.

Originally posted by The Soothsayer
And hey, as long as I have your attention... why are there soooo many repeat threads? Used to be, we would have posted a "This thread has been discussed here", linked the previous thread, and closed it (the new thread)..

Im actually guilty of doing such a thing as of this morning it would seem.
In the UFO forums I added a topic I just saw on Wired.

It is hard, a small world and 3 people can literally post the same thing at once here, and even more easily come along later and post the same thing. (All about timing.)
Everyone is a contributor and news moves fast. If you take the time to search to see if a topic is up, then someone else has already posted it.

As far as difference between conspiracy and controversy - it does seem like the line is blurred, but it really isnt I dont think.

Controversy is a difference of opinion, which you can have in a conspiracy.
But a true conspiracy is a group of people or person bent on deceiving a person or group of people to their will. This can happen in religion for sure, but usually the point is argued from the point of theology and of apologetics. Not from outside and above that see those pulling the strings and that they dont believe what they are teaching.

A lot could be added, but the is the gist of it I would think.
If the religion forum is to continue as it is, then they need to drop the name conspiracy in religion. After all its not a conspiracy in technology forum, etc. They are about that, but its not in the title. They have even put post clarifying that the religious section is about conspiracies.

But lets face it, most people arent privy to know such conspiracies. And those that are wont say it for potential legal ramifications. The approach would have to be as subtle as those who are the conspirators...and that takes time.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by NewWorldOver

As far as 'non conspiracy posts' I have to say that ever since I joined ATS I was astonished at the number of psuedo-skeptics who want NOTHING to do with conspiracy debate. They seem to be here with the sole purpose to STOP discussions of conspiracy by calling it crazy, unfounded etc....

I would tend to agree with you.
Just like all the people who believe in U.F.O.s and aliens but think the idea of shape-shifting reptilians ruling the world is crazy. (not much more crazy than their idea of aliens to begin with, and their apparent knowledge of what they can or cannot do...if they exist. And the obsession it seems they have to need to feel in control - thereby dismissing any idea that would show their lack of control & understanding - after all, they would be shaken at the thought that the world is not how mommy and poppy and the media (the original teachers) taught them.
- prison planet seems to be a term that well fits the majority of peoples mind set on the planet.

Again, Im not arguing for or against, but pointing out the inconsistency and the derailing of such discussion of topics such as Aliens to fit ones own pre-conceived agenda. Again, as for proof...if we face it, non of us have it.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 13-1-2008 by dAlen]

Well, I haven't seen another staff member answer this in-thread yet, but we have been discussing it in the staff forum. In case some of you haven't noticed, some threads have already been moved, and staff is taking a more active role in moving threads that don't fit the forum topic for any particular forum.

Since there's no real black or white rule to this, we're mostly having to go off of our best judgment, or staff group consensus if we feel too uncertain about the appropriateness of a thread. In essence, some of the moves may upset some people, while making others happy. There are three things to consider in all of this:

If the forum title in question has "Conspiracies" in the name, then if the Original Post (OP) doesn't outline a conspiracy, the thread will likely be moved. This is not the sole condition for being moved, but it is a primary one.

Most Moved Threads will be sent to the appropriate BTS forum. This should not be considered a bad thing. BTS has gotten a bad rep as "the silly chitchat forums", and it really isn't. BTS is every bit as much a forum for serious discussion as it is humor. The difference is that, for instance, ATS's "religious" forum is "Conspiracies In Religion", whereas BTS's "religious" forum is "Faith". As in, the one on ATS lists an actual conspiracy, whereas the one on BTS could be about anything related to one's spirituality.

We need your help. If a thread does not appear to fit the title of the forum, let us know by filling out a suggestion forum. We can't always get to every thread in a timely manner, even though we try really hard to do so. If you see a thread that needs to be moved, let us know so we can make a judgment call on it more quickly.

Thank you everyone for bringing this issue to our attention, and we look forward to improving ATS for everyone's enjoyment.