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The lie of the impotent God:

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posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Although I'd love to show you what I know. I can't. When Christ gave up his life on the cross is it said he said "It is compleated". The It too many assume was his life, but it wasn't. The It that was compleated was the restablishment of rulership upon the planet. Associated with the "holy spirit" on the day of pentacost. The "Holy Spirit" has several other names. One such name is the "Spirit of Truth". It was the guiding spirit that came to take over the empty seat of power that was given up by the evil spirit that is known as "the devil" over the earth.




posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated

That's a mistaken impression. The world hasn't been an evil place since the cross of christ. It was at that point "evil forces" lost their rule over the world.



2 Timothy 3: 1-5

1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.

2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,

3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,

4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.


The above obviously is evil and that is NOW in the world!


James 4:4

You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.


If the world, or the ways of the world, wasn't an evil place, James wouldn't be making the above statement...



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
That's a mistaken impression. The world hasn't been an evil place since the cross of christ. It was at that point "evil forces" lost their rule over the world.


I'm going to get really weird here for a second so my apologies to everyone who knows me as a fundie. What I am about to say is pure speculation and is mostly addressed to Big Whammy but anyone can reply.

BW: Remember what we were talking about the other day about the divine council? Do you think this could have something to do with it?

Of course I beleive there is still evil in the world and 'powers and principalities.' As Con said, take a look around and you will see evil. But what do you think about when Jesus said we now have power and authority over such things? As an example: casting out demons and other forms of spiritual bondage. We are also told to 'resist the Devil and he will flee from you.'

Remember on your Hell thread when another member showed the passage where Paul said Jesus was a savior to 'all men' but 'especially those who believe in Him?' It could possibly mean by Jesus' breaking the power of the principalities and returning the authority to us that Adam lost in the fall. And 'a savior to all men' could mean due to 'salt of the earth' [Christians], all the world would be blessed and free from the oppressive unseen spiritual authority even if they were not saved in the afterlife?

Again, sorry to get so weird and those are questions probably better asked on BTS but thought I'd at least ask.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


I almost agree with you. Christ did defeat the Devil at the cross. Absolutely the prophecey from Genesis was fufilled. His head was crushed... but he's not dead yet. He's mortally wounded but he's doing as much damage as he can before he's finished off.



"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12



If you're going to start a thread with a contreversial heading like this what do you mean "I wish I could tell you but I can't"?



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by defcon365
The above obviously is evil and that is NOW in the world!


I agree. There are many references to evil still being in the world after Jesus' ascension. One good example is the warning that the 'spirit of lawlessness' has been in the world, is in the world, and will continue to be in the world. Kind of hard to claim there is no evil in the world when 1) you can see it by looking around and 2) the Bible says there will be.

There are dozens, if not hundreds, of more references that tell us evil is most definitely still in the world.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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The "Spirit" that is known as "the devil" does still exist on earth. Sometimes the "spirit" that is known as "Satan" is alowed to come and trouble the world too.

However these "troubles" are purely volentary. Though the Volentary nature of such agressions might be from misunderstandings, but those "princeapalities" no longer have the right to annoy mankind as they did before the cross of christ.

Someone would have to be darkly confused and therefore manipulatable or welcoming to such evil spirits for them to even approach. However they'll aways be "trying" until the final "Judgement" of the time period.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Yes... and I think that's what Incarnated is hinting he knows about.

Something along the lines of the Divine council from OT days. When there really were other Gods over different territories of the world. Yes this is completely scripturally accurate from the OT. And not it is not Polytheistic even though it sounds like it. The Hebrew word Elohim translates to God but angels are Elohim as well. It's really about where they are than status ie spirits...

Before you argue with me guys go to this site and look at Intro to Divine Council


xSomefallen Angels were chained after the Days of Noah and the Nephilim problems...
Jude 6


6And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.


From the Book of Enoch we can figure out a lot of the hi jinx these "Gods" or Angels did. They taught war , drugs, makeup for women LOL it's in there

Demons are spirits form the dead Nephilim, because the proble with Nephilim and why God was so PO'd about them is they have bodies that can not be resurrected. Thats why demons try to possess people.
They are still here with us as evil spirits.
.
I believe there are Fallen Angels still at work as well...

Aren't Angels "not of this world" right?

Doesn't that mean extra terrestrial?



[edit on 2/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:32 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 



In the highest and in my mind ONLY meaning to the term "evil" it is what is unwanted by God.

As I see it there was an error put out upon mankind. It's the origin of what we believe is CIVILization. Until the world is forced to start fresh the origin of the evil kingdoms will still be in our world..



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


That is a lot more agreeable. However, I'm not convinced that Fallen Angels /Satan can not manifest in physical bodies if they want to.

As I said demons are just spirits.

I think much of the evil we see is pure human selfishness and pride.
But there is a lot of it going on... Sanctification can't start without asking for it!!!!

Pride is what made the devil the devil. -cs lewis



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by AshleyD
 


Yes... and I think that's what Incarnated is hinting he knows about.


Although I am not sure of what the "Councel" is, I looked at the link is it is along the same lines as a few aspects of what I am adressing here.

Unfortunally the christian aspects and "goggles" should be taken off to see what's truly going on.

There's origins of the ancient fall of the beings sent to help mankind in all ancient civilzations and religious texts.

The story is as follows. It was about 125 thousand years ago that the beings that were sent to help though it would be better for them to set up themselves over mankind as "king/gods". This was the origin of civilization and slavery within mankind. 125 thousand years is just about the length of a "grand year" or 12 "ages" and/or 4 "seasons".

As far as "In the days of Noah". There's things missing from the bible. I'd only wish you'd see that the "bible" is a Natoinalistic spun and mythologically introduced document of truth. Although the mythological elements are correct in some higher sense, they are not "down to earth".

The "in the days of Noah" is missing an element. In the days of "Noah" people would have to somehow "prove" they were not part of the original nephilum. This trend is reoccuring today with all the "NWO" BS.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by AshleyD
 



In the highest and in my mind ONLY meaning to the term "evil" it is what is unwanted by God.

As I see it there was an error put out upon mankind. It's the origin of what we believe is CIVILization. Until the world is forced to start fresh the origin of the evil kingdoms will still be in our world..



In Book of Enoch the fallen angels also taught civilization along with makeup and drugs and war...

Eniki in Sumeria = satan



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Incarnated
 


That is a lot more agreeable. However, I'm not convinced that Fallen Angels /Satan can not manifest in physical bodies if they want to.

As I said demons are just spirits.

I think much of the evil we see is pure human selfishness and pride.
But there is a lot of it going on... Sanctification can't start without asking for it!!!!

Pride is what made the devil the devil. -cs lewis





Yes, such beings could manifest phyical beings. In some aspects they are phyical. That however doesn't state that all "aliens" are evil

The Original Creator God create far more creatures then mankind. Those beings that want to live forever give themselves over to the will of God. ETs are not diffrent then that. It is a common understanding.

The creatures set over mankind before the "fall" and before they were removed from the Grace of God were "ETs" but that doesn't mean all "ETs" are them. actually the great majority of those beings and the rebellion is crumbled and cleaned up.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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And that is what this thread is about. It's a LIE to think our God is Impotent.

The only reason "Evil" is been alowed to do its thing is that it is far better for Evil to run its coures and burn itself out then it is to crush it.

If God "Crushed" evil then other beings might thing it was because God Crushed it that it failed.

However by letting the "Evil" run its course and distroy itself every being sees that the course of evil leads to death.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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Psalm 82

1 God (elohim) stands in the divine council (literally, council of El);
among the gods (elohim) He pronounces judgment.
2 How long will you (plural) judge unjustly,
showing favor to the wicked? Selah.
3 Judge the wretched and the orphan,
vindicate the lowly and the poor,
4rescue the wretched and the needy;
save them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They neither know nor understand,
they go about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth totter.
6 I said, “you (plural) gods (elohim),
sons of the Most High (beney Elyon), all of you (plural);
7but you (plural) shall die as men do,
fall like any prince.
8 Arise (the command is singular), O God (elohim),
judge (the command is singular) the earth,
for you (singular) shall inherit all the nations.




But what about the view that the elohim upon whom God has placed a death sentence are human rulers? This, too, is incoherent. Ask yourself some questions of the text. What is the scriptural basis for the idea that God presides over a council of humans that governs the nations of the earth? Some commentators who reject the face-value meaning of Psalm 82 like to argue that Israel’s council of seventy elders is in view here—that God is judging Israel’s judges or elders for their corruption. This makes little sense, since at no time in the Scriptures did Israel’s elders ever have jurisdiction over all the nations of the earth. In fact, as we’ll see in the next chapter, the situation is exactly opposite—Israel was separated from the nations to be God’s own possession and focus of his rule. Moreover, since when do the corrupt decisions of a group of humans make the foundations of the earth totter (v. 5)? Lastly, if these elohim are humans, why are they sentenced to die “like humans”? This is nonsensical, and is defeated by the grammar and structure of the Hebrew text.6 It would be akin to sentencing a child to grow up, or a dog to bark, or a human being to breathe. The point of verse 6 is that, in response to the corruption of the elohim, they will be stripped of their immortality at God’s discretion and die like humans die. A clear contrast is set up in the text.


Mike Heiser



[edit on 2/27/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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Oh and you believing that the evil one's, the "fallen angels" have made an "army" of alien beings is a false belief based in fear.

the fallen lost all powers of creation that is why they were forced to "have sex" mate with mankind.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 01:58 AM
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reply to wherepost by Incarnated
 


Incarnated I find myself less at odds with you than before because I can find a reference point in scriptures, even if it's Enoch to verify that it might be.

But then you come across with very specific like they aren't doing this...

Well maybe they are maybe they aren't??

Maybe they can maybe they can't?

I only go form what I read and study and I'll tell where it comes form and

show evidence


How do you know what Angelic beings are doing today?



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 04:04 AM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Truth is not a single source. Truth is an unclouded eye. If you truly want to know the truth you must see what happens when you pile everything you can get your hands upon and shake it a little and see how it fits together.

Truth is everything. The lie isn't in the text. The lie is in the perspective that says yes to this text, but in such a way that the other text is obscured and should be "thrown out" to make the model fit. That's what a lie is.

Fear stops too many men from seeking the truth. Too many men are their own stumbling stones.

Pieces of the puzzle of truth are all around you. Your picture depends upon the pieces of the puzzle you are willing to find and accept.

This is a well confermed true crop "circle" from 2002:
www.astrojourneys.com...
The disk is a binary text message that reads...

"Beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. Much pain, but still time. Believe there is good out there. We oppose deception.

thecropcirclewebsite.50megs.com...

The truth is all around you, but you'll never see it fearing the "evil ones". Remove the negitives, fear, anger, hate... This is washing one's eyes.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated

In the highest and in my mind ONLY meaning to the term "evil" it is what is unwanted by God.



Yeah if you were using it in a strict English understanding. You have to look at context and many variables that influence the contextual meaning from what used to be a language completely devoid of adverbs and many adjectives. Example,, Atheists are notorious for doing this and then passing it off as "Contradictions" or "Logical Fallacies" for instance, God created evil, they will take a passage like God’s statement in Isaiah 45:7

“I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things” “I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things”

They say this indicates that God create things that are evil. This comes from a misunderstanding of the "use" of the word “evil” in the context of Gods Nature. This is in no way to be taken as "moral evil" since it is contrary to God’s holy nature (see Isaiah 6:3). Jehovah is described as the “God of faithfulness and without iniquity.”

Then again you see it used again, the” evil” that God “created” was desolation for the wickedness of the Babylonian empire and in this context it is easily understood as "punishment”.

In Isaiah 31:1-2, God similarly warned Israel that if the Hebrew nation forged an un alliance with Egypt, He would bring “evil” (punishment) upon them.

Solomon wrote: “A prudent man seeth the evil, and hideth himself" "But the simple pass on, and suffer for it” (Prov. 22:3).
The meaning of this is when you see trouble coming to batten down the hatches, Evil here is regarding tragedies the tsunami (as an example only) or atrocities that befall Man.

So God creates evil only in a context to bring punishment or calamity to those who do evil.

There is no reference of God saying he created or creates criminal or moral evil nor does he provoke evil in any angel or man and that includes Satan. Satan BECAME evil but wasn't created that way.

Now Atheist's will not only disagree but they will REFUSE to accept this OBVIOUS correction and continue using it for their assault on Christianity and the Bible merely because it works for them that way, understanding the bible is not their intention regardless of what they say, their actions for how they USE that so called understanding is to confuse and confound the lost to stay lost.

I would also add that WE are accountable for watching it and letting it happen by not neutralizing the situation. Think about it,, when you accepted the lord, was their a maddnessinmysoul or a naboo or walking fox there during that window of opportunity to derail the most single most important decision of your life? No? Then you're lucky because your eternal life depends on people like us to keep people like them from just that kind of eventuality. I realize I am probably giving them the comical relief they so desperately thrive on at our expense but fortunately for me,, I know whose approval I seek and what they think of me is really none of my business, Marginalizing their influence IS.

From the way we have had our constitution's 1st amendment totally turned on its head from Governments obligation to stay out of religious expression to the revisionist atheist version where they actually believe Thomas Jefferson was one of the framers of the amendment and then later having it changed in 1947 to mean separation of church and state. By 1992 Atheists who were approx 6% got the "outsider" test accomplished where any minority religion saying they felt like an outsider seeing the Ten Commandments or a nativity scene compels government to take it down REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE 94% SAY.

That's why when you see those court papers the "offended" always says they "felt like an outsider" to mandate its enforcement. thomas.loc.gov...

The ironic thing is that its ok for them to be a minority religion when it suits them but deny it is one any other time.

Now the question is,, is their a moral evil to their actions?

If you say NO and you are a Christian, it would be interesting to hear what you think. Then could it be part of a spiritual warfare?

This last part I need some clarification on what is meant by "civilization"


As I see it there was an error put out upon mankind. It's the origin of what we believe is CIVILization. Until the world is forced to start fresh the origin of the evil kingdoms will still be in our world..





- Con







[edit on 27-2-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Truth is not a single source. Truth is an unclouded eye. If you truly want to know the truth you must see what happens when you pile everything you can get your hands upon and shake it a little and see how it fits together.

Truth is everything. The lie isn't in the text. The lie is in the perspective that says yes to this text, but in such a way that the other text is obscured and should be "thrown out" to make the model fit. That's what a lie is.


Incarnated you can't not accuse me of a single source... I believe the Bible is the most reliable and trustworthy but I am willing to look at others as well. I mentioned the Book of Enoch for it's information on the activities of naughty Angels. The thing I don't see is what text you are referring to for your information.

I've taken the trouble to back up the claim of "Gods" using Psalm 82 for you.

What texts are you "piling together and shaking"? I just see your opinions.



Fear stops too many men from seeking the truth. Too many men are their own stumbling stones.



I firmly believe that if you are not struggling with sin, chances are you are sold out to evil. There is no coasting up hill. Spiritual growth requires selflessness and humility that most people would rather avoid. It's usually extremely difficult and painful for me personally.



Pieces of the puzzle of truth are all around you. Your picture depends upon the pieces of the puzzle you are willing to find and accept.

This is a well confermed true crop "circle" from 2002:
www.astrojourneys.com...
The disk is a binary text message that reads...

"Beware the bearers of false gifts and their broken promises. Much pain, but still time. Believe there is good out there. We oppose deception.

thecropcirclewebsite.50megs.com...


Ok I'm not going to poke fun at this at all. But that's a general non specific message that any new age guru type might use...

Is that the source of your information? Crop circles?



The truth is all around you, but you'll never see it fearing the "evil ones". Remove the negitives, fear, anger, hate... This is washing one's eyes.



I don't really fear them as much as I have a healthy respect for them. In fact, I educate myself about them inorder to expose them and battle them to extent I am able. That's what I am doing. I believe they mainly function through planting a deceptive New Age gospel in the world that distracts people from Jesus Christ.

Where do I get my information and inspiration fo such a statement?



8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

(Galatians 1)

I am glad you acknowledge Jesus Christ Incarnated. For that is how I am told to "test the spirits". I do not accuse you of

intentional evil. However, I would be cautious of a Gospel garnered form crop circles my brother.



posted on Feb, 27 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


There is only One God. Here there is only One World. To know the absolute truth you must realize this and understand that all the texts are to be used. They do all fit together.

You talk about the Book of Enoch as if it is a book of "Angels gone naughty". However you refuse to see the Good Angels within the pages of the text?

We've always been "one world" under our ONE God. However if I'm to talk about the "scriptures" it is:

Bible.
Dead Sea Scrolls collection
Nag Hammadi Library collection
Lost books of the bible and forgoten books of Eden collection.

among scartered texts and artistic works.

I don't quote from these books. I speak from the knowledge of the books assimulated in my conscious mind.



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