us planes unleash 40,000 pounds of bombs

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by 4thDoctorWhoFan
Who cares what the corrupt UN thinks?

They are good for nothing.

You mean like this:

news.yahoo.com...

Yes, exactly like that.
It looks like the UN is investigating itself, this should turn out properly.

reply to post by interestedalways


I imagine the local Iraqis who've been dealing with that Al Qaeda cell's violent attacks, aren't complaining.

I find it remarkable how the western nations that voted AGAINST the UN, accusing the mof being worthless and curropt, are the same nations complicit in the curroption in the firstplace.

Oil for food is just the FIRST example, look at halliburtons dealings with sanctions countries, Australias use of its Wheat exports and british use of european oil for food.


We only voice the curroption long enough to tain the UN as worthless and curropt, as soon as its shown that we, the mighty western nations are COMPLICIT, well it becomes a behind the doors proceeding.

F'n hypocrytical people make me sick.

I swear, some people just arent human.
We are murdering, raping and occupying a soveriegn nation.. and peopel are defending it?....

reply to post by birchtree


The UN does not have the right to define an operation of a sovereign nation as "illegal" as it holds no jurisdiction over.... anyone, let alone its top financier, its top military arm, its top supporter.

"illegal" is an uneducated term.

The war may be immoral, it may be unethical, it may be stragetically stupid. But not illegal.

The UN is used as a podium for more powerful nations to dictate to smaller nations while appearing to be "peaceful" in motive. The institution its self is powerless. And the day it holds jurisdiction of my country is the day I go to war.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I swear, some people just arent human.
We are murdering, raping and occupying a soveriegn nation.. and peopel are defending it?....

Murder? Rape? Geez, here we go again. Have these crimes been committed by US Troops? Yes, and the ones that did it are looking at some hard bullets in Leavenworth.

The vast majority of the troops are honorable and fighting to protect the Iraqis that are being murdered by suicide bombers.

reply to post by GT100FV


Just what exactly is the distinction between the groups?

An Iraqi... has a AK in his home to defend his family.

He picks it up because he hears a noise out side..
he goes out his front door to investigate and finds a US Humvee.


immediately the marines look at him


Is he

A. An iraqi defending his home
B. An Iraqi insurgent with a GUN
Or
C. An alqeada terrorist

when these bombs are dropping...
And the marines are sifting through body parts...

What distinguishes them apart

that severed hear and butchered chest cavity is it

A. The remains of an Iraqi man asleep in his home
B. The remains of an Iraqi insurgent looking out his window
Or
C. An Iraqi-Alqaeda terrorist

So when the news trumpets

'' we have hit an Alqaeda safe house ''

Does it have a sign on the door?
Does it have directions in the local UBD for Baghdad?

Is dropping 40,000lbs of high explosives on the outskirts of baghdad suddenly going to defeat terrorism in Iraq?
Or is it going to force more young men and women to take up arms and fight the occupier?

Its like some people have completely forgotten how to spell the word LOGIC!

reply to post by jerico65


I agree, there are honourable troops.
But it doesnt matter how good your morals are, you shouldnt be in Iraq REGARDLESS! Its illegial, only the US and its people seem to say otherwise.

And I like the way you avoided the other parts of my post.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
We are murdering, raping and occupying a soveriegn nation

Let's see.....wrong, wrong and wrong.

reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan


what an intellegent, post thankyou for adding your input to my comments.
I love the way ATS brings about the intellegent to discuss a matter no matter how much people disagree

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by jerico65

 

I agree, there are honourable troops.
But it doesnt matter how good your morals are, you shouldnt be in Iraq REGARDLESS! Its illegial, only the US and its people seem to say otherwise.

And I like the way you avoided the other parts of my post.

Yeah, well, I've been there, you might think it's illegal, but I'm not going to lose any sleep tonight worrying about that.

You mean the corruption in the UN? Everyone in the US knows we have a corrupt government at times. We vote out the ones that we don't like every few years, but never seem to get them all.

Oil for Food was raped by the UN, and wasn't one of Kofi's relatives involved with that? I heard he got a nice amount of cash working that deal.

Originally posted by birchtree
reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

 

How are you defining it as illegal.......? The UN has not said it was an illegal declaration... really you are just reaching to find something you can spin.... I will choose not to speak or talk to you on this POST any more... please respect my decision .....you have insulted me personally and you do not get what you want by doing that to people.......you ahve not made any point to me here except that you are an whatever!

[edit on 10-1-2008 by birchtree]

Even though you have run away from my questions (which is fine), you now take the approach the UN is unimportant now, yet you used that as a core arguement againt the fact the war in Iraq was NOT illegal. I think it was, and the UN say it was. What made you change your opinion of what the UN says since your last post relating to your own statement? How do we even know if you were a soldier in the war btw?

watchZEITGEISTnow

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
what an intellegent, post thankyou for adding your input to my comments.
I love the way ATS brings about the intellegent to discuss a matter no matter how much people disagree

Thank you, but I did not think your comments saying the U.S. is murdering, raping and occupying a nation was very smart.

glad to see you got back home ok.
Must be comforting knowing you can escape that hell hole when your times up, but think of the poor families who CALL that hell home because of what we did.

And yes its illegial, it matters not anymore until the day Georgy and Dicky are hanging in the air from their necks.. its merely a debating point now, one that it seems many countries are backing, even the UN itself , the same UN the USA helped create to administer the concept of legality amongst nations.

Oil for food is but 1 curroption within the UN, but that deos not mean when the UN comes out and says '' Iraq has no WMD, any military action will be illegial '' that that too is based on curroption.

Turns out they didnt, and military action was a GRAVE mistake that seems to be exactly what the US wanted, and what they are profiting off.
To me, thats a little to much fo a co-incidence to merely forget about it and sleep tight.

Havent you lost friends in Iraq?
Id be shattered knowing they died in vein for corporate profit, soley contributing to a man-made hell which you were forced to inflict on these INNOCENT IRAQI's

And your theory of replacing curropt governments is seriously out of whack.

If you believe the 2000 / 2004 elections to be genuine, then you probably also believe Iraq DID have WMDS and its jsutified in us attacking them.
This would explain why some soliders are doing what they are doing, clearly they cant look at the facts and figures in front of them and come up with the correct answer, instead of the answer they are force fed and told to believe even though the facts in front of them speak differently.

I sugguest you put down your guns ( if your going back ) an head to the library.

Maybe some books

- Global Disorder
- 1000 of terrorism and the FBI
- The BUSH Dynasty
- OIL WARS
- Curroption in the whitehouse
- CIA and Alqaeda
- Diebold
- The Bush Family
- Big Oil


to name a few books and subjects would educate you on the reality facing the world, becase your willing to look the other way and get yours sleep.

I thought people who signed up for the army/marines were meant to protect the US from threatest foreign and domestic.

seems your allowing the domestic threat to use you like a tool in becoming a foreign threat.

sigh.... thats a pitty....

Originally posted by gunner36
First off I am against our occupation of Iraq, I think we have been there long enough and need to leave the mideast to fend for themselves.

I agree wholeheartedly.

We should stop Occupying Iraq, and "Make it America!"

Originally posted by watchZEITGEISTnow
reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan

 

You're avartar shows me exactly what kind of a person you are, those 3 "men" have killed more innocent people since WW2 than any other group of people on this planet. "They" are your heroes, they are the true face of terrorism, hell they even coined that phrase. Do some research on those "men".

You may want to do some research too- those of you suffering from Bush derangement syndrome, are very poor students of history, when trying to make analogies of Bush to any of these characters.

Looking at documented civilian death tolls in Iraq- 80,419 – 87,834 (with the vast majority having been killed by insurgents), I don't see how anyone being intellectually honest can make the leap of making the claim that you did.

www.iraqbodycount.org...

en.wikipedia.org...
(Pol Pot)
"The Killing Fields were a number of sites in Cambodia where large numbers of people were killed and buried by the Communist regime Khmer Rouge, which had ruled the country since 1975. The massacres ended in 1979, when Communist Vietnam invaded the country, which at that time was officially called Democratic Kampuchea, and toppled the Khmer Rouge regime. Estimates of the number of dead range from 1.7 to 2.3 million out of a population of around 7 million.[1]"


www.moreorless.au.com...

"Kill tally: 100,000-500,000 (most sources say 300,000)."


www.hawaii.edu...

"But from 1918 to 1953, the Soviet government executed, slaughtered, starved, beat or tortured to death, or otherwise killed 39,500,000 of its own people (my best estimate among figures ranging from a minimum of twenty million killed by Stalin to a total over the whole communist period of eighty-three million). For China under Mao Tse-tung, the communist government eliminated, as an average figure between estimates, 45,000,000 Chinese. The number killed for just these two nations is about 84,500,000 human beings"


www.j-bradford-delong.net...

"the twentieth century has seen perhaps five people join the Ten Million Club: Adolf Hitler, Chiang Kaishek, Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong.

Hitler, Stalin, and Mao have credentials that may well make them the charter members of the Thirty Million Club as well—perhaps the Fifty Million Club. A regime whose hands are as bloody as those of the Suharto regime in Indonesia—with perhaps 450,000 communists, suspected communists, and others in the wrong place at the wrong time dead at its creation in 1965, and perhaps 150,000 inhabitants of East Timor dead since the Indonesian annexation in the mid-1970s —barely makes the twentieth century's top twenty list of civilian-massacring regimes."

en.wikipedia.org...

"The Rwandan Genocide was the 1994 mass killing of the hundreds of thousands of ethnic Tutsis and moderate Hutu sympathizers in Rwanda and was the largest atrocity during the Rwandan Civil War. This genocide was mostly carried out by two extremist Hutu militia groups, the Interahamwe and the Impuzamugambi, over the course of about 100 days, from April 6 through mid-July, 1994. At least 500,000 Tutsis and thousands of moderate Hutus died in the genocide.[1] Some estimates put the death toll between 800,000 and 1,000,000.[2"

www.historyplace.com...

"By now, over 200,000 Muslim civilians had been systematically murdered. More than 20,000 were missing and feared dead, while 2,000,000 had become refugees."



[edit on 10-1-2008 by GT100FV]

reply to post by 4thDoctorWhoFan

The U.S. is not run by a dictatorship and for the most part, things are good.

that's the funniest thing i've heard all day... there must be so much sand in america these days... how are you all finding space to keep your heads in it?

btw... i can never help but notice all the "men" who talk about kicking ass all have comic book avitars clutching huge members... oh and are sitting at home in front of their computer screens .... how's the sandwich boys? does your mom cut off your crusts?

[edit on 10-1-2008 by never_tell]

reply to post by Agit8dChop


I guarantee you, 40,000lbs of bombs weren't dropped because somebody opened their door with an AK in their hands. Let's just say using a variety of electronic, photographic/video, human intel, tip lines, US forces identified where this cell was operating from, and you can bet that there were eyes on the objective either via optics and/or imagery prior to, during, and after the attack.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

How do you know there were no WMDs in Iraq? Ever been there? Big country, lots of open spaces to hide things. And what about all that traffic going into Syria when the war started? No one really explained that clearly....

And I don't think anyone died in vain. If you think that Iraq was paradise when Saddam was in power, speak to some of the Kuwaitis that were on the receiving end of his love when he overran the country in the First Gulf War.

Sure, things are rough in Iraq now, but I think they are getting better. I think it would be moving even faster if they didn't have to worry about foreign terrorists going into their towns and blowing them up.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Agit8dChop, I often ask myself how people justify the war in Iraq without understanding the legallity of it all...usually falls back to " Oh that Saddam he was an "evil" man" (and he probably was/is). When asking about the reasons of WMD, they again fall into the "well at least we know there are none there now". What amazes me about those types of people is the fact they have the facts infront of them, yet still excuse the war and justify it. I can only put this down to a few reasons:

1 mass media has programmed them to the point of accepting a wrong even if by all evidence provided as a truth.

2 there ego is that fragile, it could not even begin to believe "their leaders" do in fact lie, and lie on a consistant basis.

3 they are neocons that blindly follow these criminals.

4 they are paid to do this by their government, ie disinformationists.

Also I find it quite scary that the army personal use the excuse of following orders, meaning to me they have totally submitted their own souls to that industry, rendering anything they do no matter how immoral totally justified. How a human can let another direct one to kill one is beyond comprehension to me. The army does break these recruits, break them to totally be under control of their leaders. I have never understood how a free thinking human being could do this, let alone be a part of a group like this. DEFENCE is what they have been recruited under, yet OFFENCE is what they are about. Name 1 war the US has been in to DEFEND itself from? OH apart from "terror" that is.

Time for all people no matter what your orders are, to wake up and understand YOU are responsible for what you do with your time on this planet. Treat others as you wished to be treated. If there is a genuine threat: DEFEND yourself.

watchZEITGEISTnow

Originally posted by never_tell
that's the funniest thing i've heard all day... there must be so much sand in america these days... how are you all finding space to keep your heads in it?

btw... i can never help but notice all the "men" who talk about kicking ass all have comic book avitars clutching huge members... oh and are sitting at home in front of their computer screens .... how's the sandwich boys? does your mom cut off your crusts?

[edit on 10-1-2008 by never_tell]

Well, last time I checked, it's not a dictatorship. Now, Stalin? THERE'S a dictator!!