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I see the light!

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posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 04:43 AM
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Organized religion is for sheep. If that's the path you walk , then you'll never find the truth. Good luck in trying to buy back your soul from the devil.




posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by Garnet
 


I agree. I know that there is something out there that keeps the universe in balance but it's definitely not some Christian God or any other religion's God for that matter. I think it's selfish to think that our Creator spends that much time delving into the lives of squabbling humans. The way he's portrayed in the Bible is not the way I picture a perfect being. Why would God force his beloved creations to kneel, grovel, and beg for his love when he created us out of his love for us? It sounds like a man-made fantasy, not how a God should act.

No, you're not crazy. Do what feels right for you, don't follow what someone else tells you to. If you consistently study any religion you will find holes and flaws because they were created by man. The Creator is too complex for us to even begin to comprehend, that's why men screw it up all of the time.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Stalks in Shadows]

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Stalks in Shadows]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by joesomebody
As for death...we are all immortal in a sense. Where your soul resides after death depends on whether or not you trust in Christ...I prefer Christ and paradise over Satan and eternal Hell.

That old gag. Apparently this is the only real persuasion. It's not for spiritual enlightenment, it's not for the good of mankind, and it's not for seeking greater truth. It's cause you don't want to go to the scary firey place. Nice



I mean not to offend, but help people find the path, but honestly any other belief system is a perversion of God's word, or a totally invented thing.

Of course they are. Because only your Christianity is teh correct one.



At the same time, while judgment isn't right on our part, this is another problem that leads young Christians astray and repels non-Christians from believing, with the whole "He's a Christian and he does (insert sin here) just like me...why should I become a Christian, since I'm already doing that?" sort of thing...

No, you know what repels them? It's the whole "you must believe to be saved crap." If that isn't the biggest load of brainwash nonsense I've ever heard. If you can be terrified by idle threats into believing 2+2=5, then you're cattle.



Originally posted by Burginthorn
The way I like to look at the whole thing is, if its real (God that is) then really what have you lost by following the Bibles teachings?

Isn't that Picard's Gambit? And didn't Dawkins debunk it?



I'm not talking about religious politics, bible bashing, guilt trips and other assorted nasties that turn SO many away from the truth. I'm talking about the simple message of guidance through life.


Right, but according to the world's worst religions, simply being good doesn't do squat. You have to believe their line.


Originally posted by joesomebody
Yes! But one must always know that salvation is through belief in Christ Alone! Not good works! Good works are something a Christian is supposed to do, as it is what Jesus would have done, and shows others that Christians are different from non-Christians in a good way! This attracts more to know Jesus!

Like I said, believe the hype.


You have to excuse my abruptness, but now I must leave for work. To make sinful money. To take my evil christ killing jew of a girlfriend out. So we can see sinful JIM NORTON then go back to my place where I can fire some warm sin at her tonsils.

Sin out ya'll



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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To the OP:
I'm happy for you. I once considered myself a Christian until about the age of 13, although I wasn't as 'active' as you were. Something just snaps for some people, and it gives us the chance to shrug off the blindfold for a few moments - just long enough to begin that upward spiral of questioning and skepticism. I'm extremely grateful I was one of those who woke up and I'm glad it has happened to you.

May I just add that just because you've seen through the Church's BS, doesn't necessarily mean you need to become a diehard atheist. You can - I did at first - and I'll respect that, but there are other forms of spirituality that allow you to bypass the negative traits of the major religions. You might find this thread interesting:
Conspiracy against true spiritual potential



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by kindred
Organized religion is for sheep.


Baaaaa!



Originally posted by kindred
If that's the path you walk , then you'll never find the truth.


If I'm a sheep, why am not 'buying' this?


Originally posted by kindred
Good luck in trying to buy back your soul from the devil.


Ah, wishing luck. Well, that was some help now wasn't it?



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by Shawn B.
Can you pull out a quote where Jesus says that?


Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)




Uh-huh. See how LOVING God is?





posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by indierockalien
How can a book written by man be the infallible truth? Historical evidence proves that your Bible was written by Constantine and a group of high priests at the Council of Nicea in 323 AD. Well... maybe not "written", but plagerized a bunch of old gnostic,hebrew, egyptian, etc. ideas into one gargantuan tool to unite all of the Roman Empire under one unquestionable belief system, to more easily control the minds of the population... thus beginning the persecution of individual thought all over again.

Your Bibles, Korans, Torahs, Vedas... are simply tools of manipulation and controlled chaos and division.


Do you have links or anything to some of this information? I'd really like to read into some of that myself. I've read a lot of websites citing errors in the Bible, which has in turn made me believe that it can't be full of truth at all. There are some really lame errors in there... If anyone would like to read up on the contradictions and whatnot, the website is www.cygnus-study.com...

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Garnet]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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The problem is "religion" and the solution is "a relationship."

Religion, all religions, for that matter, are corrupted and twisted by man, including Christianity. The purpose of our creation was for the glory of God, that's it. It's not about us, not about our happiness, or what we want or don't want. it's about glorifying the one who created us.

If you follow man you will be disappointed, let down, hurt and confused. If you follow Christ you will find hope, peace, love and a desire to be more Christ-like. The difficulty is trying not to let man get in the way of your relationship with Christ.

I can't argue the fact that many so called "christians" are two faced, hypocrites, unloving, and unforgiving....what I can't say for sure is whether or not they are true Christians. Only God knows their heart but their actions sure seem to indicate otherwise. Just because someone goes to church, speaks from a pulpit or quotes scripture doesn't make them a true Christian. Jesus said you will know them by the fruit they bear. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit and bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

I have to agree that there are times when I hesitate to tell someone I am a "Christian," because many "Christians" I know have done things that are embarrassing, rude, or not Christ-like. For myself, I try to lead a "Christ" life. I try not to judge others because I do not know their heart. I cannot possibly grasp the mind of God because with my finite mind I end up putting Him in a box and the creator of the universe and all things within it can't possibly be put in a box.

I can't tell someone what Jesus is going to do for them in their life because I don't know. What I can do is tell them what Jesus has done in my life. And, it hasn't all been easy...but there is peace amid the trials and tribulations. I lay no claims as to who is going to heaven and who isn't. I'm not all knowing, I'm merely a wretched human who tries, though the love of Christ, to love others, to forgive others the way my Father in Heaven has forgiven and continues to forgive me.

In closing, all I can say is don't blame God for what man has done. If you're angry with a specific religion, a doctrine of man or you the insincerities of so called "Christians" then take your eyes off of them and place them on Christ. If you desire to have a relationship with Christ, don't let the foolishness of man get in the way.

Shalom,



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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ALL religion is false.

Most religions believe that their religion is the ONLY and TRUE religion. This, of course, goes against all aspects of their teaching to accept others for who they are.

I've found most modern religions to be hypocritical and based loosley on heresay or word-of-mouth teachings.

There is no un-biased historical record of that time that Jesus ever exsisted and almost all aspects of his legend are just re-hashes of previously worshipped dieties.

If anyone does their homework ... they know these statements to be undeniable.

The fact is: We do not know where we came from. We do not know how the universe was created. The best theories we have (scientifically) are the big bang (which has major flaws in itself) and evolution (which we cannot explain the "boom" mankind had roughly 10,000 years ago that gave way to logical and rational complex thought). Millions of years of exsistance and all of a sudden we grow food and build shelters? Something happened that we cannot explain. And I don't believe it had anything to do with what most religious people call "God". I think the Inca's were more accurate when they referenced "sky gods".

[edit on 11-1-2008 by tyranny22]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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When did the dictionary become obsolete?

Religion is "the service and worship of God or the supernatural" and "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance" (www.m-w.com...) . When you say religion is the problem yet you need to have a relationship with God, then you're creating another dictionary word called an oxymoron.

Even the Bible advocates religion. If you do not, are you not disassociating with the Bible?

[edit on 11-1-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Garnet

Originally posted by Shawn B.
Can you pull out a quote where Jesus says that?


Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered." O LORD, what should I request for your people? I will ask for wombs that don't give birth and breasts that give no milk. The LORD says, "All their wickedness began at Gilgal; there I began to hate them. I will drive them from my land because of their evil actions. I will love them no more because all their leaders are rebels. The people of Israel are stricken. Their roots are dried up; they will bear no more fruit. And if they give birth, I will slaughter their beloved children." (Hosea 9:11-16 NLT)

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)

And at midnight the LORD killed all the firstborn sons in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn son of the captive in the dungeon. Even the firstborn of their livestock were killed. Pharaoh and his officials and all the people of Egypt woke up during the night, and loud wailing was heard throughout the land of Egypt. There was not a single house where someone had not died. (Exodus 12:29-30 NLT)

If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)




Uh-huh. See how LOVING God is?




LOL Jesus didn't say that. Thats the reason why Jesus never wanted his new teachings to be put with the OT and they weren't till hundereds of years later.


[edit on 11-1-2008 by Shawn B.]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God
When did the dictionary become obsolete?

Religion is "the service and worship of God or the supernatural" and "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance" (www.m-w.com...) . When you say religion is the problem yet you need to have a relationship with God, then you're creating another dictionary word called an oxymoron.

Even the Bible advocates religion. If you do not, are you not disassociating with the Bible?

[edit on 11-1-2008 by saint4God]


Please show me where the bible advocates religion? The bible talks about a personal savior, a personal relationship with Christ. Man has distorted the doctrines of the bible to fit his needs or desires.

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1. I do not disassociate with the Bible. However, I do disassociate with the numerous doctrines of man.

My father is Jewish, my step-father Catholic and my mother Baptist - I've been exposed to a great deal of religious doctrine that is not biblical.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Shawn B.
 


I never said that JESUS said anything about killing babies; I was talking about how God very obviously condoned the death of babies. Now that I go back and read the first page I realize that you were asking where JESUS talked about baby-killing, not God. I am pretty sure that Jesus never ordered anyone to go murder a baby unlike his father--oh wait, but aren't he and his father the SAME according to the whole trinity thing? Therefore, Jesus is also a baby killer. Case closed.




posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Jacks56
Please show me where the bible advocates religion?


Sure. There's two things to keep in mind.

One is the definition of what religion is as aforementioned:

"the service and worship of God or the supernatural" and "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance".

We must ask ourselves, does the Bible ask us to worship and live in the services of God? Are we to make a commitment or devotion to our religious faith with God? Are we to observe that which God instructs us to do?

And the part you're more likely to be interested in, Biblical quotes:

"But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God." - 1 Timothy 5:4

"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." - James 1:27



Originally posted by Jacks56
I do not disassociate with the Bible.


I don't think any believer intentionally does, but all of us do from time to time. Try as we may we'll fall short because we're to "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect". I didn't mean this to be as heavy of a prodding as it may have seemed.


Originally posted by Jacks56
However, I do disassociate with the numerous doctrines of man.


If they do not align with God's instructions, I can understand. The Bible is an excellent litmus test for that. Before blanketing/judging all churches, organizations or groups as "bad religion", consider the possibility (and dare I say fact) that are are many who do hold the Bible as the book of practice.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 01:06 PM
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I encourage you all, especially believers, to read this website. Try to read every chapter if you can; all of this information is non-biased and extremely thought-provoking. I am currently on Chapter 12 and can't wait to read on.

After reading at least to chapter 12, and honestly considering what this guy has to say, I DARE you to say that God answers prayers. It's so ridiculously obvious that he doesn't; I can't believe I didn't realize it before. I feel like such an idiot and all of you people should too after you finish.

Have fun removing those blinders. It took forever for me to get mine off, unfortunately.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by Garnet
reply to post by Shawn B.
 


I never said that JESUS said anything about killing babies; I was talking about how God very obviously condoned the death of babies. Now that I go back and read the first page I realize that you were asking where JESUS talked about baby-killing, not God. I am pretty sure that Jesus never ordered anyone to go murder a baby unlike his father--oh wait, but aren't he and his father the SAME according to the whole trinity thing? Therefore, Jesus is also a baby killer. Case closed.



No case isn't closed, people who wrote the OT didn't have a proper understanding of God. Jesus came along to show them what God was really like.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by Garnet
I encourage you all, especially believers, to read this website. Try to read every chapter if you can; all of this information is non-biased and extremely thought-provoking. I am currently on Chapter 12 and can't wait to read on.

After reading at least to chapter 12, and honestly considering what this guy has to say, I DARE you to say that God answers prayers. It's so ridiculously obvious that he doesn't; I can't believe I didn't realize it before. I feel like such an idiot and all of you people should too after you finish.

Have fun removing those blinders. It took forever for me to get mine off, unfortunately.



God does answer prayers. Just because you can't hear God doesn't mean God's not talking to you.


[edit on 11-1-2008 by Shawn B.]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Garnet
 


No one who I have ever talked to, in person, has ever told me that they do not believe that God answers prayer. They may have not had a particular prayer answered to their own likeing. I am amazed that you would find that taking a stance, that God does not answer prayer, appealing. I have personaly seen prayers answered in the most emmediate and substantive way possible.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
No one who I have ever talked to, in person, has ever told me that they do not believe that God answers prayer. They may have not had a particular prayer answered to their own likeing. I am amazed that you would find that taking a stance, that God does not answer prayer, appealing. I have personaly seen prayers answered in the most emmediate and substantive way possible.


Same here, no amount of reading would negate what actually happened to me and those around me. It's like typing "These aren't really words, you can't read this".



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Shawn B.

Originally posted by Garnet
reply to post by Shawn B.
 


I never said that JESUS said anything about killing babies; I was talking about how God very obviously condoned the death of babies. Now that I go back and read the first page I realize that you were asking where JESUS talked about baby-killing, not God. I am pretty sure that Jesus never ordered anyone to go murder a baby unlike his father--oh wait, but aren't he and his father the SAME according to the whole trinity thing? Therefore, Jesus is also a baby killer. Case closed.



No case isn't closed, people who wrote the OT didn't have a proper understanding of God. Jesus came along to show them what God was really like.


If they didn't have a proper understanding of God then why would God let those improper understandings be put into the Bible? And I don't see how you can misunderstandGod saying, "Go murder that entire city and keep the women and their belongings for yourselves." It's quoted... As in, he DID say it. There's no misunderstanding that.



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