It's your turn to admit you were wrong!

Originally posted by Seekerof
What I find interesting about this "particular subject" McGotti, besides "the river of faith" and "fruits of goodness" and the "wise man once told me" story, is how you skirted my questions and what I had to say in response to you 'calling me out'......

Ironic, "don't you" think?



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 12-2-2004 by Seekerof]

No I dont think its ironic..What questions would you like me to responed too??? I think pretty much anybody with a brain can see all the info about thier being no weapons of mass destruction has to be fact simply because ...A)none were used(not within in the last 5 years) .B)none have been found..

When I said that your all wrong..I mainly am refeering to peoples opinion that saddam had weapons and they posed a threat to the united states..the main reason used to hurdle our country into a costly war(money and blood)...We were lied and tricked by propaganda and people like you helped them propel the uninformed into a blood thirsty rampage into which they stopped caring about dead humans simply because they are iraqis and not "white people"....I have never seen the united states actually take over a country and occupy it..It was simply a easy target..Why didnt we take over N. vietnam during the veitnam "conflict".The bottom line is that it was an unjust war and you people helped by helping them turn the united states into an evil empire..slaughtering and stealing from everybody in the world..including its own citizens.I for one am ashamed because of our actions in iraq.

If this was a court case trying to convict iraq of possesion of WMD's,the prosecuter would have to throw out the case because there is no hard evidence..But justice that we americans come to expect..does not apply to the rest of the world.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid

Originally posted by allwayslooken
Iraq might not had as much WMD but I think they move them to Syria.

agreed... and even if that isn't the case saddam is gone, so YAY!

and that's a really great thing. i know pretty much first hand. i live near dearborn, michigan (highest population of arabs outside of middle east) and it was one giant celebration in the streets. it made me happy to know some good had come out of this.

Oh my god! no wonder American cars are so crappy now!

McGotti:

First off: "When I said that your all wrong...I mainly am refeering to peoples" Peoples?
Excuse me McGotti, you forgot to mention that you SPECIFICALLY called me out by this: "even seekerof... " (bolded for emphasis). Your purpose McGotti, for which I have seen no explanation unless you consider your last post as the explanation, which IMHO, does not explain why you named me SPECIFICALLY. You comment:

"....and people like you helped them propel the uninformed into a blood thirsty rampage into which they stopped caring about dead humans simply because they are iraqis and not "white people"....I have never seen the united states actually take over a country and occupy it." (bold for emphasis)

Here's what I find ironic about this McGotti....you post an article that gives the "waffled" commentary of a Faux news anchorman, and then call ME out by proclaiming that I need to apologize based on this anchorman's assertions that Bush was wrong on Iraq not having WMD and thus "propelling" this nation into war. You then post this melodramatic "if anyone had a brain" hogwash and then spout further inaccurate falsehoods of: "people like you" (emphasis added)........like what the hell McGotti? Huh?

This use of "you" implies exactlywhat? That becuase of MY opinions, beliefs, and stances, I am partly or at fault for the "propelling the uninformed into a blood thirsty rampage into which they stopped caring about dead humans simply because they are iraqis and not 'white people'".........? All this because I was fervent in vocalizing my opinions and beliefs? Since when did I carry such godly "influences" McGotti?

LOL, then to add insult to injury, you play with hidden racial connotations of "white people". Good grief, your implying what with this now?!

And then follow with this:
"I have never seen the united states actually take over a country and occupy it...."

Read a history book lately? Japan and Germany come to mind, off hand.

Then this:
"It was simply a easy target."

Really, interesting. You in the military or a military anaylist or working for a strategic institute or think tank? Obviously a subjective assessment. Ok...


This:
"Why didnt we take over N. vietnam during the veitnam "conflict".

Duh?! Read some political, historical books on the Vietnam War/Conflict and the many a varied answers will be provided. Let me simply say, that it wasn't because the US couldn't do it militarily!


And finally:
"The bottom line is that it was an unjust war and you people helped by helping them turn the united states into an evil empire..slaughtering and stealing from everybody in the world..including its own citizens.I for one am ashamed because of our actions in iraq.

If this was a court case trying to convict iraq of possesion of WMD's,the prosecuter would have to throw out the case because there is no hard evidence..But justice that we americans come to expect..does not apply to the rest of the world."

McGotti? Many...very many good ATS threads on what you are addressing above. In such, you have not answered my questions that you so eloquently claim:
"What questions would you like me to responed too???"

Try these, since they DO pertain to your topic/subject matter:

"....since you named me specifically, ummm, Mr. McGotti....allow me to ask a few questions of you that I hope you will get around to answering in the foreseeable future:

Just "who" or "what" makes Mr. Pat O'Reilly an expert on the subject of Iraq's WMD's and their subsequent full disclosure and discovery? May I remind you that even Mr. Kay mentioned that though NO 'real' WMD had or have been found in Iraq, that he believes that there are many questions left to be answered; that there may be smaller, not larger quantities --- as previously thought, still in Iraq or had been moved out of Iraq. In such, the full disclosure of Iraqi WMD is somewhat still up in the air, per se'? On the issue of "immenent threat" and Bush "lying" or "falsely" taking the US to war with Iraq, my opinions can be found on multiple threads and do not need to be re-hashed on this one.

Thirdly,since when did the voice of a liberal (though many claim conservative), populist, "waffling", Al Franken spooked, news media anchorman become the last authoritive word on the Iraqi WMD issue, Bush's supposed "immenent threat" usage, and Bush and the administration "lying"?

Despite yours, and others, vocal claims of "treason", "lying", "falsehoods and pretexts", I remind you that within the US remains a judical system for making such determinations either a reality or a defunct falsehood.

I find it quite ironic that I was the only one you named. Why? Because I have been one of the most staunch, out-spoken ATS members on this issue of Iraq having WMD's? Was your intent to discredit me due to the singled out words of dear Mr. O'Reilly?"


Those questions.........



regards
seekerof

[Edited on 12-2-2004 by Seekerof]

You may only see the light when the clouds of darkness have engulfed you.....

does that answer your question?

02/12/04....who said this today McGotti?

"Our analysis of the situation has been clear and to the point: The CIA blew it......

I'm personally sorry my analysis on WMDs before the war was wrong and I'm angry about the CIA mistake. I mean, any honest commentator would say that, but the left-wing press sees my admission as some kind of liberal policy vindication and is using my words to hammer the president.

Well, that's dishonest. I still believe removing Saddam was the right thing to do and that history will prove it. And there's also the possibility that WMDs will be found, so I might have to apologize for my apology.

But at this point, President Bush should retire George Tenet, the CIA chief. This is the third huge mistake the agency has made. First, the Chinese embassy was bombed in Belgrade because we didn't know where it was. Second, September 11. And third, WMDs. Enough is enough. Tenet should go.

I don't think President Bush lied about WMDs, but he should be stronger in fixing U.S. intelligence. That's the bottom line here. My mistake was not being skeptical enough about the CIA's reporting on WMDs. But the left-wing press, which is so happy about all this, has made dozens of mistakes itself and continues to deny that the world is a better place because Saddam is gone.

Here is a bulletin for you people: The world is a better place and a safer place and America has saved thousands of lives by removing Saddam, something we had the absolute legal right to do."

www.foxnews.com...


Again, you, McGotti, were saying about Mr. O'Reilly and what he has/had mentioned and the implications you thought he meant?
"If you thought there was WMDs..well you were wrong so appologize all of you!!........"





regards
seekerof

[Edited on 12-2-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by DaRAGE
I dont give a rats ass if weapons were found or not. The dictator has fallen and the world is free of his Tyranny

Correction Bush is still in power... well he's not eally a dictator but his Tyranny affects more of the worlds people in a year than Saddams Tyranny did in his whole reign...

it would have been WAY easier to say i'm sorry.
you're not married, are you? HAHAHA!

let me wipe the trears from my eyes as I aplogize from the bowels of my colon............i actually did think that we would find something....i can't believe that NOTHING AS BEEN FOUND!! the administration was SOOOOOOO positive that WMD would be found. the govt is puling the wool over our eyes and they are getting away with it.....all you have to do is keep putting the blame on others and if that doesn't work, just don't answer...then the american public will forget. what a shame that our society has become soooooo apathetic to the governing of their goverment.

totalitarian : Designating a form of government in which one party exercises absolute control
over all spheres of human life and opposition is outlawed.

republic: a country governed by the elected representatives of its people.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Oh Puhlease people!

They went into a strange country where a certain percentage of the population is hostile. Until they search under every single rock in that sea of sand they can't be sure if they are there or not.

Furthermore I still say that certain weapons were moved to Syria when it became apparent that the US was actually going to invade.

Lastly, Saddam said he had had these weapons in past and he had also threatened to use them. So who is the liar here?

Originally posted by intelgurl
Umm... since when is someone required to apologize for opinion, however wrong it may be... Actions are apologized for, not thoughts.

Intelgurl, just curious what you think of this - Does the stating of an opinion turn that thought into an action?


And to pose an on-topic question which has been mentioned before, to Everyone..

At what point does the knowledge, ability and desire to create WMD become having WMD?
1. Actual weapons completed and sitting on the ground.
2. Materials and procedures in place, half-finished weapons on the ground.
3. Previous attempts and known desire to acquire materials to one day build and have weapons on the ground.

Is there really a difference besides a capability to strike?
Is that important?

When is attack justified?

During planning of WMD construction.
During WMD construction.
After WMD construction completed.
After WMD use.
Never.

Any thoughts?


[Edited on 14-2-2004 by quango]

How about this? I walk into a bank with a trench coat on and I hand a note to the teller saying that I am strapped with explosives which I will explode if the bank does not immediately pay me $100,000 cash?

Gee what would you do?

Originally posted by THENEO
How about this? I walk into a bank with a trench coat on and I hand a note to the teller saying that I am strapped with explosives which I will explode if the bank does not immediately pay me $100,000 cash?

Gee what would you do?

It depends.. am I in the bank?

Originally posted by THENEO
How about this? I walk into a bank with a trench coat on and I hand a note to the teller saying that I am strapped with explosives which I will explode if the bank does not immediately pay me $100,000 cash?

Gee what would you do?

ok, but seriously. I would hand over the 100,000 and risk no lives. I would hope the law would one day catch up to you.

i guess from our analogy this means i would rather have higher gas prices than see war.