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Religious Indoctrination Isn't A Factor To The Self Motivated Spiritualist

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posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 02:53 AM
Not every 'religious' or spiritual person was indoctrinated from birth to believe in God. Yet this is the reputation they've been given. They are 'sheep' to non-believers, and if they genuinely believe in certain things in their bibles, traditions, etc. in a literal fashion, they are 'fools' to non-believers and atheists.

I have to take a stand and say no, plenty of people are self-realized and understand their own concepts of a universal God. Plenty of people are familiar and comfortable with Religions and their sacred texts because it motivates them towards higher knowledge. Not all religious people are 'sheep'... The Roman Catholic church is the black shepherd, leading millions of 'christians' down the wrong path, and is responsible for this reputation of ignorant warmongering in the world of Religion.

The truth is, Religion has nothing to do with the Roman Catholic Church and has simply been manipulated by the same tyrants, criminals, politicians etc. throughout history to manipulate the masses of people who want to follow a spiritual existence.

A person has to be SELF-MOTIVATED spiritually to move past institutions of Religion and develop their own understanding, and plenty of people are exactly that. They aren't under the control of anything... it's the people who fail to motivate themselves in spiritual study or religious practice who can be rightfully labeled 'sheep'.

Religion needs no institution, it does in fact, when achieved with the right spirit, separate individuals from the very religious institutions which try to control them. For every claim that all Muslims are terrorists, hundreds of verses can be quoted from the Qu'ran which advocate peace and nonviolence for the sake of God. For every claim that Christianity is the cause of all major wars, there are hundreds of verses advocating peace and the END of wars.

While it may be true that many are fooled by religious manipulation, the definition of a religious experience is that it must be personal and self-realized. While people like to blame 'Religion' as if it were a nation of people, this particular nation doesn't really exist. There can be no institutionalization of the spirit.

It is the manipulation of man-made institutions which are to blame for religions bad reputation.... religion does not need these institutions. So why do people continue to judge a worldwide religion by these muddied reputations?

The truth is, not all religion indoctrinates children from an early age to close their minds. Most if not EVERY child raised religious rebels at a certain age and gives up on the church and the idea of God entirely.

In every religion, this is known, and every religion states, no son of God (no man) will return to or realize himself as a part of God until he's learned to seperate himself. So giving up on faith and giving up on indoctrination is actually PART of the Religious experience and part of realizing 'God' or the nature of the Universe.

I was one of those people, and I still consider myself seperated from the institution of churches or organized religion; none-the-less, when people attack true religion, true spirituality, for the ills of organized religion, I start to think that THEY are the subject of indoctrination, as they don't understand the true nature of religious experience. They think everything in the religious world is illusory or dictated by the church societies etc. Not true : the religious experience is entirely personal, and every self motivated spiritualist has known this.

I came to understand the concept of God and spirituality on my OWN terms and with my OWN research. So have plenty of others. This puts us in a different category from indoctrinated religious AND atheist skeptics alike... often we can't see eye to eye with either of them, and it's frustrating. When it comes to religious discussion, the inexperienced and spiteful almost always take the reign.

I hear so often that 'people believe in religion because their parents taught them' . Sure many of us were taken to church as kids, we grew up being indoctrinated by other religious people, but to this day we have freed ourself from that and expanded in all kinds of directions. Indoctrination was not a factor for us.

I also hear so often that religion is a crutch for the ignorant or weak. Nothing could be further from the truth when you know yourself to be intelligent and stronger than so many of the soulless and spiritually dead people roaming this earth. I will say right now that the strongest and wisest men in history were all 'religious' because they were overflowing with spiritual self-realization. If you need proof of this, please take some time to study the Shaolin or famous philosophers and scientists like Jung. 'God' and organized religion have nothing to do with the self-realization of these spiritualists, and they come in all forms and cultures, through all different types of religious study.

It seems so often to me, that atheists and non-religious people simply don't have a clue what the hell they're talking about when it comes to religion. They have the personal spiritual experience confused for man-made wars and manipulations of the scriptures. Religious nuts are 1 in a 1,000,000 when it comes to all the billions of people searching for a bigger answer, so you have to figure that out of the billions of 'believers' there are plenty who have come to GENUINE conclusions concerning their soul and God, and they come to these conclusions without institutions, without wars, and without hating/judging others...

Look around when there is religious discussion and you'll see a clear distinction between people who think religion is some disease forced on us at birth, and people who have GROWN past the whole organized religious paradigm altogether. We're past it because we've actually studied our own spirituality... something atheists and religious nuts alike have NOT done. We will defend Religion because it is the first motivation to attaining higher knowledge, but we won't HATE others for not believing our religion.... something atheists and religious nuts alike are guilty of.

There is a shade to the religious experience which is completely ignored in favor of a spiteful, prejudiced, stereotypical presentation of the 'religious sheep' who are controlled by war-mongering societies etc. I propose that atheists etc. recognize that the idea of 'God' is extraordinarily complex and personal compared to the sterilized version presented by mass religion. You cannot judge all Religion in the same sense that you cannot judge all Science. They are evolving bodies of philosophy and purpose, and the people who are MOST knowledgeable in science OR religion are the most likely to have built their own ideas and confirmed their own beliefs.

Some sort of evolution in the discussion of religion has to take place. A clear definition between fake religion and real spirituality is only obvious to people who have pursued their own self-realization. To most people, it is easier to believe that all religious people are indoctrinated and that God is an unsubstantiated fairy-tale they've created to comfort themselves in this life. This is a narrow and prejudiced point of view and it makes it hard to listen to atheists etc. when they talk about Religion. They don't understand the point of view of someone who has really understood or 'seen' the reality behind religion and spiritual study.

If anyone agrees with me, I'd be relieved. I had to get this off my chest because religion and spirituality in general are dying for the sake of bad reputation and spite from the atheist community. If only atheists understood that some people are genuinely self-motivated and that their spiritual identity isn't confined to organize religion.


[edit on 10-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]

posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:27 AM
reply to post by NewWorldOver


What you have stated in your post is exactly how i feel, i get so fed up with all the nonsense that comes from people who know nothing about faith that i don't even bother posting much now. It's just the same old ignorant story about how God is a myth.

You have managed to put into words things that i want to say but have trouble doing so.

posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:57 AM
200 % behind you but may i suggest that eventhough the catholic church is one of the main perpetrators , it would be a bit to easy to blame just everything on that one and only organisation.
It's about human nature after all, if it hadn't been the catholic church it would have been some other man made , powerhungry entity
it is a never ending story , money and power.
Constantine develloped the christian church to be the perfect tool for mass control in his days, and that is the way it has been kept, followed by others using the same highly succesful methods
Earlier Roman methods are still in use too , remember "Panem et Circenses", bread and games or in a more modern version "beer and footie" or "fast food and tv" .
Whoever "they" are , "they" are keeping up a good job

posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:00 AM
Great post.
I don’t know if I agree with you.
But in fact it doesn’t matter really.
What matters are our individual view point of what we are and the search of who we are as where we come from?
I have a problem about God (it’s my personal problem); one side of me wants to compile with the existence of a supreme being because some how every things seems to lead to a creation of some kind.
And the other side of me wants to search deep in every thing that makes the reality to find the link between my being and the entire universe.
I am a lone in this exercise as I believe we all are.
From a very early age I have refuted all religions (I grow up in a very religious family but my parents never forced their belief on me).
It seems that all religions (no exception) are packed with half truth and misrepresentation.
For sure these setups in all religions have a certain agenda, many people have speculated about the agenda. I for one don’t really care any more about any hidden agenda of world religion.
What I care now after all this years is why we exist.
Some time I think if we find the answer some day this will be a very simple one that many people will be surprise with, like the building block of the atoms which is so simple that it’s surprised many people.


posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:55 AM
I read something just tonight on it that states every truly good spiritual person can't help but try to share what they know with everyone.

I am one person that likes to share my slant on spiritual things.

I get no reward for this. I make no friends. I get no credit.

I do so because I see society and mankind with a hole where their soul should be. I'm not alone in knowing this hole. Marketing and Advertising among other aspects of PR and Sales target that hole in humanity for their profit and gain.

I don't do it for profit nor gain. I do it for love. I do it for free. I do it without anyone who will ever reconize me in any way shape or form, for the most part at any rate excluding tracking of IP address and such.

Let me tell you a story. I was a sweet child. I think it was the second grade, something like that anyway. Another child came up to me and took great intrest in me and asked if we could be friends. I was overjoyed. When I was excited a day later they asked me to come to "bible study" or what ever childs church is on sundays. I asked my family and they said no. When I told my "friend" my family said no, then that child "couldn't be friends with me in that case". That church was using children to get other children to come to that church. This so scared me, I find such behaviors discusting, distrustful, and unrightous.

It is people like that that give people like me a bad name.

posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 07:28 PM

Originally posted by kacou
Great post.
I don’t know if I agree with you.
But in fact it doesn’t matter really.

Thanks, and yes it doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me in particular, and it doesn't matter which opinion we hold on 'religion' or the textbook definitions of God. Religious, spiritual, atheists, the gnostic, we are all part of an infinite perspective which cannot be regulated to religious organization.

And the other side of me wants to search deep in every thing that makes the reality to find the link between my being and the entire universe.

That's the only real 'religious' perspective. Discover yourself and your relation to everything, theorize that there is one all-encompassing experience called God, and move along. Look what organized religion has done to that simple plight of the human spirit, we've compartmentalized, symbolized, and bastardized it. Organized religion and Illuminatic society as a whole are treacherous to the progress of human spiritual development.

Originally posted by Hvitserk
200 % behind you but may i suggest that eventhough the catholic church is one of the main perpetrators , it would be a bit to easy to blame just everything on that one and only organisation.

Religion is definitely manipulated by a myriad of institutions all stemming from the Vatican and Illuminati.

The CIA installed a group of muslim extremists to wage a Jihad against Russia, than we installed Saddam Hussein as a secular dictator, THAN we (America) voted in the satanic spawn of the Illuminati to represent the American Christian ideal ... a nightmarish twist of irony that most religious people cannot fathom. In any case: the major manipulator of religion in hand with the Vatican is the good ole U.S. U.K. underground elite, or as we call them, the Illuminati.

The sad fact is that true Christians and true Muslims are standing paralyzed in shock at the things being carried out in their name. They have been mislead and then their beliefs and reputations dismantled on the world stage. It's all very sadistic when you realize what organizations and 'leaders' are doing this... the very ones that claim to protect them.

Originally posted by jon1

What you have stated in your post is exactly how i feel, i get so fed up with all the nonsense that comes from people who know nothing about faith that i don't even bother posting much now. It's just the same old ignorant story about how God is a myth.

the traditional, illustrated concept of God is a myth. People still believe in a big man in the clouds etc., if professed believers of any religion have this notion of God, than so will the unbelievers. The result is that TRUE seers of divine elements in our reality will be dealing with and experiencing completely different realizations of Godhead. The true universal force that is spawning and destroying multiple universes in the blink of an eye, the all creating all pervading universal reality that the ancient Hindu called Brahman(the Upanishads had a crystal clear conception of 'God' thousands of years before Christianity).

God is a myth unless you're dealing with 'him' directly. In which case all boundaries of preconceived notions are at a loss to stop the awesome all pervading force, which is reality, which is our multidimensional universe etc. Whatever vague conception or name we may give to it, means nothing. You just have to see it.

Originally posted by Incarnated
That church was using children to get other children to come to that church. This so scared me, I find such behaviors discusting, distrustful, and unrightous.

Yes, alot of things done by insitutions are sickening. I believe the tendency of man to 'gang up' and enforce uniform ways of thought is our luciferian consciousness at work. We are free beings who are lead through childhood by all kinds of systems of manipulation. Plenty of people are indoctrinating their children to hate and kill in the name of God. Those are the people, not the religious texts, and it's disturbing to see how fervently they will tie their own suicidal activities to some religious significance.

The saddest irony is that when kids are brainwashed to discriminate, or perpetrate violence in extreme cases, they grow up to be the next generation... we've had 10th and 12th generation products of this kind of mental abuse, which they call 'religion'. The irony I'm getting at is that people grow up to hate religion or hate in the name of religion, which in the most extreme contrast to spirituality, actually FEEDS demonic or negative energy. That's why the people who perpetrate mass genocides and call it patriotic war are the true antichrists, the true satans. They live by an antithesis to God and are lost forever from his sight. It's scary to realize that these are the people running the world, and that they're still actively brainwashing/abusing children - through organized religion.

I am sure that these demons we call pedophilic priests or presidents of the united states have already been unveiled to our consciousness on a higher level, and the world is starting to see what's really going on: in the process we abandon organized religion and it's farce leaders and continue on our own personal self-evolution in consciousness. We have to step through the darkness to get to the light.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]

posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 09:56 AM
Lots of continuing discussion on the nature of religion. bumping.

posted on Mar, 30 2008 @ 12:00 PM
thanks for the bump, i hadn't noticed this thread, but its a good one. you've conveyed very well a frustration i've been feeling the last while. i'm glad there are others on ats that feel this way.

the dogma of organised religion often gets in the way of the search for enlightenment but it has given us a large school of religous thought to draw on so it can't be all bad. dogs in the manger, they have their uses when put in their appropriate place.

as for atheists, they believe themselves the most advanced entity we are aware of, you can hardly expect humility from them.
i try not to let them bother me.

posted on Mar, 31 2008 @ 12:37 PM
link, you use a broad generalization of atheists and nonbelievers in defense of believers against a broad generalization and THEN you go on your typical anti-catholic rant...

seriously, most atheists don't call theists sheep for simply having a belief, they tend to get to that accusation when it comes to specifics.

hooray for hypocrisy

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