I Wish To Offer An Opinion On Atlantis

Hi AmmonSeth,

As I said in my previous post, my theories are derived by using known historical/scientific/religious/and astronomical data. For example;

If you imagine these subjects laid-out like a grid ... then take all the theories concerning Atlantis and overlay it on the grid ... you will find certain points where they all merge. These are the bits that I focus on and try to expand on because their common links indicate that these are the areas where we are more likely to find the reality within the myth. It also provides a balanced overview of both academic and alternative perspectives ... and I believe that to be a vital factor in finding answers ... we cannot afford to dismiss anything out of hand ... whatever the source, otherwise we set limits and the potential for progress flies out of the window.

All ancient races tended to be more influenced by the right hemisphere of their brain ... this is why they used symbolism and the patterns in numerology and star-maps to relate the information they wanted to pass-on to generations far into their future. That's why we miss what is hidden in plain-sight ... because nowadays the impervious left hemisphere of the brain is more dominant and logic denies us access to ALL areas (if we refuse to use both hemispheres in equal measure).

Why did I reference the locations with the four elements ?

Because they are the building blocks of our planet ... just seems to make sense that this would be the most natural form of symbolism to use ... they would assume that these things would remain recognizable by anyone ... however far into their future !!! (like the cardinal points).

Woody.

[edit on 22/10/2007 by woodwytch]

reply to post by snoopyuk


Hey there snoopyuk,

I read your thread about the Azores ... found it extremely interesting.

Not knowing much about the Azores prior to your thread, seeing the images you posted appear to make it plausible.

Well, I can't speak for AmmonSeth, but I'll certainly keep you informed.

Nice to meet you. Woody

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
Im not saying my belief is that Atlantis is hiding in a mountain somewhere,
i am simply mentioning the fact that the sea/ocean is not the only place to point your attention,

Yeah, maybe. But the thing is, Plato (the only historical source) seemed not to be speaking very metaphorically when he talked about the place, so why not simply take him at his word? Maybe it didn't vanish into the sea, but then why would he go on about that part of the ocean being muddy and impassable to sailors for so long afterwards?

I personally don't understand why people feel the need to be so creative when it comes to interpreting the texts. They're not that complicated or obtuse.

Sure, Atlantis could be in Antarctica or Mongolia or Mars or somewhere else, but it's so much simpler to just accept that Plato's sources could have been exactly correct, particularly when we have such a nice potential spot for Atlantis -- the highly volcanic, currently undersea Azores Plateau -- right where he said it was.

For those interested my first real-life expedition for atlantis involved travels in china,
I had attained information that heavily linked the atlantis mythos with that of the Mount Penglai mythos,
This expedition grew too troublesome due to the chinese governments constant taxes towards us, and the fact that there are hundreds of dialects of chinese, and our translator was not well versed enough to converse with the residents we needed to,
This expedition is not labelled a dead-end in my books, and we are planning on another in the next 5 years, however this is depends on any research gained between now and 5 years time.

I cannot stress enough for people to please get in contact about any 'alternative' views towards atlantis, As i believe the key to finding the legendary city is not in the mainstream

Good to speak again Woody,
I see your point about overlapping, and where they begin to merge,
I do however feel that all potential sources need to be investigated thoroughly,

Originally posted by woodwytch
Why did I reference the locations with the four elements ?

Because they are the building blocks of our planet ... just seems to make sense that this would be the most natural form of symbolism to use ... they would assume that these things would remain recognizable by anyone ... however far into their future !!! (like the cardinal points).

Woody.

This is interesting also, I would normally question whether the people of this civilisation understood the elements as we do, however we both know that the atlantian civilisation were not average,

Run by me again which cities you are linking to which element and why they are linked to that element please

reply to post by AmmonSeth


i too would like to more of the elemental side ??

i just realised ammonseth , you have been in all my threads,and i have been in yours !! i have added you as a friend

snoopyuk

Originally posted by woodwytch
reply to post by snoopyuk

 

Hey there snoopyuk,

I read your thread about the Azores ... found it extremely interesting.

thanks woodwytch,
i see you are a fellow yorkshire man ! cool.

snoopyuk

Originally posted by snoopyuk
reply to post by AmmonSeth

 

i too would like to more of the elemental side ??

i just realised ammonseth , you have been in all my threads,and i have been in yours !! i have added you as a friend

snoopyuk

I guess you must write something relevant and interesting to me then,
Im curious which threads of yours have i been in, can you please link me to them?

Originally posted by Nohup
Yeah, maybe. But the thing is, Plato (the only historical source) seemed not to be speaking very metaphorically when he talked about the place, so why not simply take him at his word?

That's the problem you know. Which words are you to trust? There are some serious conflicts.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by merka]

Hi AmmonSeth,

Ok here is a review of the elemental links;

Gizeh Plateau, Egypt;

This is the place I have the most data about, it was only during the research for my book that I began to notice some strong links with other multiple, ancient civilizations (including the not so famous ones), so I extended my concept and considered the multiple location theory.

This (I believe), is a subterraneous complex and because of the way it is situated I believe it represents the element of 'earth'



Chichan Itza, Yucatan Peninsula;

The pyramid complex site at this location is very interesting particularly the Sun Temple ... due to the 2 x 90 ft sq sheets of mica that were discovered 'below' the floor (more specifically, the type of mica that was discovered). The penisula itself is made-up of extremley porous rock ... which creates the Cenotes. Underwater archaeologists discovered a few years ago, that these Cenotes link-up below ground and lead out to sea. This made me wonder whether they also lead inland and eventually become a 'dry' tunnel system??? (who knows this might be where the 'Hollow Earth' myth emerged).

The KT boundary (impact point of the meteorite that wiped out the dinosaurs), extends from the penisula, out below the sea (beyond the ancient coastline). Due to the meteorite connection it seems feesible that this would be represented by the element of fire.



Queen Maudes Land, Antarctica;

IMHO, this was the original primary site and would obviously have been installed prior to the area becoming an icy wasteland. Even so, I think the structure ... a massive inverted pyramid (the same as all the other locations), is below ground-level.

The ice-cover makes this highly likely to be represented by the element of water



As for the element of 'air' ... at the moment I'm not sure.



Why all subterraneous ... and 'inverted' pyramids ?

It could simply be because that is the way they preferred ... but I think it's more important to ask why the surface pyramids at these locations.

The most obvious reason is that they were 'markers' and 'access points'. But I think it was also (again symbolically), to reiterate 'As Above So Below' ... the God-like Atlanteans wanted to symbolically explain that not only was it a case of 'as above (ground) so below (ground) ... but also ... as above (space/heaven) so below (space/heaven).

Also, an inverted pyramid and an upright pyramid form a tetrahedron (sacred geometry) very important to all ancients ... is this why???


(NOTE);
Please understand and don't take offence at the fact that I can't divulge too many details. (A) I know nothing about you at this point (B) You mention you too write books (C) I don't want to walk into W H. Smith's Bookstore and see my data in someone else's book

(As a writer yourself I'm sure you'll understand that I have to protect my interest as some of my material is - as far as I'm aware - not mentioned anywhere else). Woody

[edit on 22/10/2007 by woodwytch]

Originally posted by AmmonSeth

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
I do however wish to work with other intelligent minds and do wish to hear other 'alternative' theories about the atlantis mythos

These two wishes would seem to be mutually exclusive.

Harte

How do you propose that you may be of assistance?

I'm sorry to have to tell you that the very first thing I have to offer you is that there is no such thing as an "Atlantis Mythos."

Furthermore, IMO, Atlantis never existed either. But that is beside the point, isn't it?

I mean, if you pick and choose what part of Plato to believe, then you are creating your own Atlantis. That's okay with me, but you'd find it sooner if you hired a construction company to go ahead and build it for you. Your flight of fancy will never come into being otherwise.

Plato is the only source for Atlantis. There is no "mythos" surrounding the subject.

Somehow, you're gonna have to get around the insurmountable fact that neither Egypt nor Athens existed in Plato's Atlantean time frame.

And that's just the preliminaries. There are many more mountains to climb that make these "little" problems seem easy.

Harte

a few months ago, i came across a page with two images, one of a map found in the 1500's, not the Piri Reis or the Oronteus Finaeus maps. (just found them now after search) and the other a satellite image of antarctica,
i have since envisioned this from those two images, sorry, i have no links to supply, this was some time ago, moving twice, lost records....

so, if the earth shifted, and atlantis, being sort of an equatorial continent, ends up on the 'bottom', flash freezes, under miles of ice, and then, well, lemuria, being on the opposite side, ends up on the top, again, flash frozen...

the greek fellow did say where atlantis was, there is now water, maybe it did not sink,. but is now where we call antarctica

and this really Wild spin off theory goes like this, american scientists have been finding stuff in antarctica, stuff left from when there was a florishing society, russians the same with siberia findings,

of course a Really Wild theory ok? besides, i smoke a lot of weed and can remember lots of past web pages and sites, just no links to supply

so back i go to try and find that site....

thanks for the time and have a great day

reply to post by b4tee4


Hi there b4tee4,

Weed apart that's how I sort of thought about it too (not the weed bit). The planet has change so much and so many times since the beginning times. That's why it makes me smile when people poke fun ... truth is none of us 'know' for sure what is right ... NOT EVEN THEM.

Welcome to ATS ... don't let the 'dismissive left-brainers' get under your skin. Woody

Ps Word to the wise ... not supposed to talk about smelly, green herbs on the forums ... jeez that stinkwort gets everywhere

Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by Nohup
Yeah, maybe. But the thing is, Plato (the only historical source) seemed not to be speaking very metaphorically when he talked about the place, so why not simply take him at his word?

That's the problem you know. Which words are you to trust? There are some serious conflicts.

Not generally related to the location. He got some of the sizes wrong, thinking it was Asia-sized, but for the most part he's saying head due West out of the Mediterranean until you hit the mud where it used to be. Northern mountains, fertile southern plains, big capital port city. You can't miss it.

reply to post by Harte


I beg to disagree with you - Plato is NOT the only source on Atlantis, it is merely the only scholarly source.

There is a significent amount of cultures whose mythologies and creation epics detail a now sunken continent from which their culture derived.

I will give but ONE example - The Tuatha De Danann

This tribe of the Goddess Danu arrived in Ireland at approximately 2000BC. THEIR OWN history stated that they originated from lost islands in the North West (Atlantic region).

Ignatius Donnelly
...the Tuatha De Danann are represented as belonging to a race of mysterious origins which lives at the ends of the earth and who was supposedly driven from their home.

The Tuatha De Danann were the ancient inhabitants of Ireland who were forced to give way to the Gaels and to become the gods of Celtic imagination, the lords of the subterranean world.

Their uncertain origins combined with their curious stone constructions give them a cloak of mystery.

J.A MacCulloch
The meaning formerly given to Tuatha De Danann was "the men of science who were gods", Danann being here connected with dan, 'knowledge'.

from The Yellow Book of Lecan
There were four cities in which the Tuatha De Danann learnt wisdom and magic... Failias, Findias, Goirias and Murias.

(Note the similarity between Murias and Lemuria. If we take the "Le" to represent "the", then Le'Muria is likely the Murias of the De Danann.)

The De Danann brought an artifact from each city.

From Failias was brought the Lia Fail, which is at Tara, and which used to cry out under each king who assumed the sovereignty of Ireland. It never spoke except under a king of Ireland.

From Goirias was brought the sword which belonged to Nuada. No-one escaped the sword of Nuada after he had been wounded by it, and when it was drawn from its warlike scabbard, no-one could resist against him who had it in his hand.

From Findias was brought the spear of Lug. No battle was maintained against the spear of Lug or against him who had it in his hand. (It was said to operate on its own)

From Murias was brought the caldron of Dagda. Never went an assembly of guests away unsatisfied from the caldron of Dagda. (self replenishing)

Additionally, these four Irish-Druidic artifacts are understood to be the prototypes of the four suits of the Tarot.

It is said that the De Danann were also able to conjur the Earth itself when it battle. Commanding mountains and rivers to their will.


Surely there is enough preliminary information here to classify the records and history of Tuatha De Danann as a basis for Atlantean research.

The technology was obviously advanced and yet we have no other indication to suggest an origin from anything other than lost homelands in the north-west.

I believe the De Danann were but one group connected to and part of the Atlantean Empire.

Originally posted by srsen
reply to post by Harte

 

I beg to disagree with you - Plato is NOT the only source on Atlantis, it is merely the only scholarly source.

There is a significent amount of cultures whose mythologies and creation epics detail a now sunken continent from which their culture derived.

I will give but ONE example - The Tuatha De Danann

This tribe of the Goddess Danu arrived in Ireland at approximately 2000BC. THEIR OWN history stated that they originated from lost islands in the North West (Atlantic region).

That's interesting. But I've never read any tale of these folk that mentioned any "lost Island."
Islands, yes, but "lost," no.

I do continue to appreciate Tolkien's use of this mythos in his works. What great tales.

The quote from Donnelly below is a joke, right? You realize you're quoting a retired politician with no knowledge whatsoever regarding what he's talking about. The book you quote from was written from his armchair in the Midwest U.S.A.

Ignatius Donnelly
...the Tuatha De Danann are represented as belonging to a race of mysterious origins which lives at the ends of the earth and who was supposedly driven from their home.

The Tuatha De Danann were the ancient inhabitants of Ireland who were forced to give way to the Gaels and to become the gods of Celtic imagination, the lords of the subterranean world.

Their uncertain origins combined with their curious stone constructions give them a cloak of mystery.

J.A MacCulloch
The meaning formerly given to Tuatha De Danann was "the men of science who were gods", Danann being here connected with dan, 'knowledge'.

Is there a reason you truncated this quote?

The meaning formerly given to Tuatha Dé Danann was "the men of science who were gods," danann being here connected with dán, "knowledge." But the true meaning is "the tribes or folk of the goddess Danu," 1 which agrees with the cognates Tuatha or Fir Dea, "tribes or men of the goddess." The name was given to the group, though Danu had only three sons, Brian, Iuchar, and Iucharbar. Hence the group is also called fir tri ndea, "men of the three gods." 2 The equivalents in Welsh story of Danu and her folk are Don and her children.

Source: Sacred Texts
It wasn't to further your point, was it?

from The Yellow Book of Lecan
There were four cities in which the Tuatha De Danann learnt wisdom and magic... Failias, Findias, Goirias and Murias.

(Note the similarity between Murias and Lemuria. If we take the "Le" to represent "the", then Le'Muria is likely the Murias of the De Danann.)

Lemuria was the name of a nonexistent and supposedly sunken land bridge from Madagascar toward India that was postulated to explain the presence of lemur fossils on the mainland when lemurs were known to only exist on Madagascar.

After plate tectonics was discovered, the idea of Lemuria, thankfully, was flushed down the toilets of time.

So, the above reference is beyond foolish, it's downright sickening.

Originally posted by srsen
Surely there is enough preliminary information here to classify the records and history of Tuatha De Danann as a basis for Atlantean research.

The technology was obviously advanced and yet we have no other indication to suggest an origin from anything other than lost homelands in the north-west.

I believe the De Danann were but one group connected to and part of the Atlantean Empire.

There has never been any ancient claim of advanced Atlantean technology. Those claims came from fraudulent "channelers," like the convicted felon Edgar Cayce.

Believe what you want. But I see no similarity at all between any Gaelic myth and the story (note - not myth) of Atlantis.

Harte

Originally posted by woodwytch
Queen Maudes Land, Antarctica;

IMHO, this was the original primary site and would obviously have been installed prior to the area becoming an icy wasteland. Even so, I think the structure ... a massive inverted pyramid (the same as all the other locations), is below ground-level.

The ice-cover makes this highly likely to be represented by the element of water

This has always been one of my major thought-points. However due to antarctica being so inhospitable, i have been focusing my attentions else where and have also broken off onto a many-cities theory. However i do feel there was a genuine city of atlantis, noone will ever know the name of this city, so i will just state it as atlantis (this is my atlantis) and this is what i am searching for, definately not the whole 'continent'.

Originally posted by woodwytch

The most obvious reason is that they were 'markers' and 'access points'. But I think it was also (again symbolically), to reiterate 'As Above So Below' ... the God-like Atlanteans wanted to symbolically explain that not only was it a case of 'as above (ground) so below (ground) ... but also ... as above (space/heaven) so below (space/heaven).

Also, an inverted pyramid and an upright pyramid form a tetrahedron (sacred geometry) very important to all ancients ... is this why???

Also an intreaguing theory, i am one who has a belief that maybe the original founders were genuine extra-terrestrials (not big grey aliens, or reptiles, but people like ourselves, us being created in their image) and have a heavy weighing on the heavens/space theory. I also however do believe that although the atlantean technology may of been great, i do not believe it included that of space travel.

Originally posted by woodwytch
(NOTE);
Please understand and don't take offence at the fact that I can't divulge too many details. (A) I know nothing about you at this point (B) You mention you too write books (C) I don't want to walk into W H. Smith's Bookstore and see my data in someone else's book

That is perfectly fine and if necessary i can sign a written legal agreement not to use any research or theory's of yours in anything that i claim to be my own. I only plan on publishing facts discovered (main emphasis of my book) and research that has lead me to a real dead-end, meaning it was proven not true.

You seem to me that you are a person with a great mind and you show great potential, Would you consider forming a partnership and working together?

reply to post by srsen


Yet again you have shown a great understanding and demonstrated facts that support certain truths about atlantis.

I would also like to emphasize how cultures from every corner of the world have a tale/myth/history that can be related to that of the western 'atlantis' mythos

*edited to correct who i was replying to*





[edit on 10/1/2008 by AmmonSeth]

[edit on 10/1/2008 by AmmonSeth]

srsen,

Being of Irish descent on my mothers side and having much respect for the Irish people, I must take exception to what you claim about the Tuatha de Danann. Literally the "people of the goddess Danu". The Tuatha de were believed to descend from Nemed who was believed to have come from Scythia. You do know where that is, right? NOT in the Atlantic!!

Also, the timeframes for Atlantis and the Tuatha De are about 7500 years apart. So many people, yourself included, pay so much attention to WHERE Plato said Atlantis was that they ignore the story he was trying to relate to his countrymen. I believe that he put Atlantis location where he did to take emphasis off of where it might have been, putting the emphasis on what happened to it when it tried to conquer Athens and Egypt. THAT IS THE REAL STORY.

Originally posted by Harte
The quote from Donnelly below is a joke, right? You realize you're quoting a retired politician with no knowledge whatsoever regarding what he's talking about. The book you quote from was written from his armchair in the Midwest U.S.A.

Like all great controversial scholars, Donnelly (in a way, like Cayce), has suffered many attempts to discredit his work and shame his name.

Its amazing how he can apparentally create all this work from an armchair, yet still manage to ruffel feathers and challenge minds centuries after his time - this is because he isn't afraid of telling the truth.

Originally posted by Harte
Is there a reason you truncated this quote?

The meaning formerly given to Tuatha Dé Danann was "the men of science who were gods," danann being here connected with dán, "knowledge."

No reason, my source only showed the quote i provided. That is very interesting though.

I don't see how that disproves what has been suggested here, i find it adds to the arguement. But wasn't to further the point.

Originally posted by Harte
Lemuria was the name of a nonexistent and supposedly sunken land bridge from Madagascar toward India that was postulated to explain the presence of lemur fossils on the mainland when lemurs were known to only exist on Madagascar.

Another fave of the sceptic. Why should we believe this story - seems mighty convinient to me. The thing this so-called 'fact' reveals to me is the depth of which it misses the point.

General consensus of Lemuria is that it existed in the general South Pacific Region and encompassed Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, Rapa-Nui, Mariana Islands, Micronesia, Melanesia and all other islands in the surrounding southern Pacific Region.

It may have even stretched into the coast of Japan and Indonesia.

These geographic boundaries have been determined by multiple scholars studying the myths and origins of numerous Pacific cultures, of which a vast majority credit their forefathers existence to a now sunken land mass which provided the foundation of civizilation (in the Pacific at least) and the origins of knowledge.

Originally posted by Harte
There has never been any ancient claim of advanced Atlantean technology. Those claims came from fraudulent "channelers," like the convicted felon Edgar Cayce.

Well no, Plato didn't say it, but it doesn't mean it isn't said. What about the Veda's, Ramayana, Mharbharat, the Naacal tablets, Emerald tablets, and so on? You cannot discount such documents off hand.

Originally posted by AmmonSeth
I would also like to emphasize how cultures from every corner of the world have a tale/myth/history that can be related to that of the western 'atlantis' mythos

Thank you and i couldn't agree more.

But this information is conveniently ignored or written off more often than not.