It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

War has been declared

page: 2
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:36 AM
link   
I am in no means justifying bombings of any type by any one group of people on another,be they suicide or air strike,however how do you stop a suicide bomber?They obviously place no value on their own life, so you can't really threaten them with death, as that is their means to an end.However they most likely want their loved ones to live, so I imagine after a few bombings of the families of suicide bombers, the incidence of suicide bombings would decline somewhat.Just because you are willing to sacrifice your own life to an ideology, does not inherently mean you are willing to sacrifice your wife, children, mother,father etc as well.Both sides in the dispute are dealing death at the end of the day.




posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 07:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by lazy1981
But as far as the Palestinians go, They have been at the mercy of a foreign oppressor since, what 47'? Now, I in no way justify the bombings so lets get that straight.


Prior to about the 1920's, there was no such thing as a "Palestinian." The Arabs who lived there developed a national consciousness. Also I would add that there is a huge difference between the Arabs who stayed inside of Israel and the Palestinians who lived in Gaza and the West Bank... while there is some discrimination against Israeli Arabs, they are basically full citizens of Israel. I find it interesting that a recent poll (printed in both the Jerusalem Post and Ha'aretz) showed that 85% of the Israeli Arabs in East Jerusalem are NOT in favor of dividing the city or giving control of it to the Palestinian Authority.

Now, having said that, I do agree that the Palestinian people should have a state. However, they have been cursed with corrupt and inept leadership since the beginning. Personally, I believe the best solution would be to cede Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan (which is already 80+% Palestinian), but the Arab nations are highly unlikely to take on this responsibility.


Originally posted by lazy1981
But, Israel can't realy say much of anything there either, they did the same to the British. That's actualy how they got them to leave. They simply wore away the the British will to stay in Palestine.


Yes, there were some Jewish terrorist groups in the 30's and 40's. There were also Arab mobs massacring Jews in various towns. The history of the conflict is very complex.


Originally posted by lazy1981
I was once told by a freind in High School (which was Palestinian) that when the Israelies find out who the bombers are they order an air strike on the home where his relatives are. Wife, child, mother it doesn't matter to them who gets killed and he broke into tears while telling the tale.


I have never heard of this. Do you have some sources other than your friend?


Originally posted by lazy1981
The Jews in Israel are not the rightful inhabitants of the land. Just look at them, the are white.


You've obviously never been to Israel. And... if you are thinking you're going to bring up the old "White Nationalist" argument that Jews are not really Jews, but they are descendants of the Khazar people, you are barking up the wrong tree. First of all, it was only the nobility of the Khazars that converted, not the general populace. Also, there have been multiple genetic studies published that show that refute this ridiculous claim. For example, here is one that was published in the American Journal of Human Genetics: www.ftdna.com...


Originally posted by lazy1981
The world has never put them in their place for these sorts of agressive actions and now they have grown accustomed to this and pay little attention to the minuscule rebukes that are passed along to them via media.


How is it "agressive"? The land was captured in defensive wars. I would also add that Israel did return Sinai to Egypt when Egypt made peace.


Originally posted by lazy1981
But, I would like the readers of this thread to do one little bit of research it's not much at all and you can do it on the internet. Look up theses passages (Numbers 31:1-41, 34:1-12, and 33:50-52 also Joshua 6:21) this will only take a few minuets to read if you are not familiar and will give you a world of insight as to what I am about to say


You realize that the Bible is not a literal history... right?



Originally posted by lazy1981
I leave you with this insightful quote,
"Every time we do something, you tell me America will do this and America will do that... I want to tell yousomething very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
Ariel Sharon: Israeli Prime Minister
October 3rd 2001


You really should stop visiting White Nationalist web sites. I have seen that quote over and over, but I have NEVER been able to find any source - outside of White Nationalist web sites - that corroborates that. That happens to be a ridiculous idea... this country uses Israel as a pawn in its Middle East dealings, not the other way around. Heck, we even made Israel take scud missiles during the 1st Gulf War and not respond.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 12:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by seridium
Glad I don't live in the USA you guys are all screwed by your government.


Actually we are kind of glad you dont live here too !



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 01:22 PM
link   
I have skimmed through this thread and felt the urge to throw in a few tidbits here.

Judasim is a religion, not a race.

On the holocaust:


Hitler's bellicosity was driven by fear. Fear of things to come. Fear of many of the problems we face today. He saw that the world was becoming a very crowded place. After the Great War, the German people were pushed to the back of all lines. It is not surprising that the once proud but lowly Corporal would become filled with hate at the degradation of the German people. And fear. Fear that the harshness of the post WWI era was a permanent plight for the German people. Fear that they would always be the last to partake of the world's resources. Fear that they would be the first to be denied those resources when they became scarce. Fear that his people would be driven into extinction when the world's resources were expended. This is why he acted against the Jews. I don't think it was a hatred of the Jews in particular that drove him. It was a hatred of all non-Aryans. He believed that there was simply no room left in the world for anyone but the Aryans. Kill or be killed I suppose you could summarize the plot. It is quite logical actually. Not the ravings of a lunatic. Hitler was no idiot. I don't agree with exterminating humans, because I think there are other methods for dealing with the burdens of overpopulation, but I am not driven by fear either. Hitler was driven by fear. Fears that he shared with his people. Fear that he used as a weapon.

There were indeed conspirators outside of Germany who knowingly cooperated with the Nazi regime and were directly complicit in the events, but this was not part of an overall Allied strategy at the time. Since then however, those conspirators who acted outside of the law and colluded with the enemy have reaped grand rewards and have escaped responsibility for their collaboration. For more on that, you can research everything from Operation Paperclip, to the Bush family history. There are other big name conspirators who collaborated with the Nazis who remain the driving forces in world affairs.


I have quoted here what I originally posted on thread The Holocaust was carried out by the Allies, not the Nazis! (Hypothesis)

If anyone is interested in who "they" are and how our economic system is terminally flawed, I suggest you visit the thread Do Not Watch This Video...

I have also started a new thread looking into some history of the United States in A Bigger Picture (Rise of the NWO)]





posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 03:42 PM
link   
reply to post by masonica_esoterica
 


Unfortunately that way of thinking is not entirely accurate. It hasn't seemed to work yet. The only reason that they have stopped or at least tried to stop the bombings is because those at the top of the radical Islamist in Palestine have gotten power and don't want to throw a wrench in the program. They seem to be hoping that they can actualy make some headway in getting their own state (I would assume).

As to the whole idea of the killing of innocents, well that's absurd. I know that you said you don't condone it so I'm not taking a shot at you but how would this stop anything. First off those that are related to the bombers most likely do not take part in their actions and therefore don't deserve to be have their houses come crashing down on top of them. Second, this way of handling the situation only stands to inflame the situation. This effectively makes them no better than the suicide bombers and I can have no compassion for a government or people that condone the killing of innocents on either side. By engaging in such tactics makes them as bad as the rest.

Let me give you an example. I'm from Chi-town so I have seen how this plays out. You have one gang that is att odds with another and decides to go and kill one or more members of their rivals. In return the other gang retaliates and in the process kills an innocent bistander maybe a child or relative of the gang member. Now you have a street war of mega proportions. Some of these gangs have membership in the 10's of thousands so if you can imagine now that in their eyes they have all been handed an edict to war with all of the chapters belonging to that organization that killed the family of their "brotherin arms". Things quickly get out of hand and now many bistanders are becomming victims. Only in the case of the Israel they are doing this intentionaly. They have lost the moral high ground and are no better than the other vilans.

I hope that this can clarify how these tactics are wrong and destructive on both sides.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 05:06 PM
link   
reply to post by JustMe74
 


Giving Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan probably would be a good idea. I totaly agree that the Palestinians are racked with corruption and mismanagement (then again so are we). And yes, the Romans named that area "Palestine" so it was known by that name long before the 20's.

I'm pretty sure that the Gaza Strip was Egyptian territory prior to the Arab Israeli wars anyway. And yes the conflict over there is very complex. The account given to me by my freind was just that, an oral account that was corroborated by some other Palestinians (they were mutual freinds); Furthermore think back to the news of the late 80's and 90's and think for yourself. Remember all the bodies of women and childeren that were showed on TV after the Israeli airstrikes. This does seem a bit strange if they were only attacking millitant targets. Sad enough I can't give you any other sources. I wish I could. But I don't realy think that Israel would ever let that come to light, do you. The Nazi's tried there best to keep their escapades under wraps as any government would and does.

Let me start by saying no, I have never been to Israel but I have seen the news and meet Some Israelis and there seems to be an awfull lot of fair skinned people that claim that land as their ancestrial home. Now lets not forget the flocks of millions that came from Europe and Russia. Predominanetly Caucasian in appearance. How would one that comes from the middle east look remotely white? Maybe they are converts...? Makes sense to me. Although I do have to ask what the hell is a Khazar? This would be the first I have ever heard of them. Please elaborate. My ideas are merely a process called natural deduction. All of this talk of "White Nationalism" is far to one sided for me.

Besides that wouldn't be in my best interest to get mixed up in anything like that seeing as how I'm 1/2 Puerto Rican and all (how does that old saying about assuming go?) that could be to the detriment of my own interest. Wow there goes that process of natural deduction again, isn't it amazing?

Yes Israel did "capture" the land in a deffensive war but it's not polite to keep your neighbors garage because you got into a fist fight. That was mighty white of them to give Egypt it's land back.


Whether or not the Bible is or isn't a literal history is a good point. I'm sure that some of it isn't entirely accurate. So do we then pick and choose which parts we want to beleive? Ok then I choose not to beleive that the Jews hold any legitimate claim to the land they call Israel then. That is what they base their claims on anyway right (they get it straight from the Bible) so then the matter is settled I suppose. Like I said ask any die hard Jew and see if they will denie The Book of Numbers or The Book of Joshua. Then come and tell me that I should feel pity for his family that had the same thing done to them. I might add forsome of the same reasons. The Nazis felt that it was providence that pushed them to exterminate the "lesser" races as they called them. And also to take their possessions. If you have read the Old Testament then I'm sure that you Know the Israelites were told that "GOD" had given them that land and all within it and to kill all it's inhabitants before they settled there. No religious Jew will tell you other wise.

So since we are not taking that to be accurate then we should also be willing to say that the Israelites had no legitimate claim to the land of Canaan (the story was a fictitious concoction) therefore they have no claim to modern day Israel. What's right is right.

We didn't "make" Israel do anything we asked them not to respond and we did in fact take care of the problem. We didn't want Sadamm's plan to work. He only did that because knew that the Arabs in the coalition would drop out if they knew that Israel was involved or attacked Iraq in any way. Try your trickery on someone that doesn't like history. And if Israel is our pawn or such a great ally then why didn't we use them to invade Iraq or Afganistan. At the very least they could come along with us on the long ride like a good ally should. So where are the Israelis? All I see is American and British boys and girls fighting and dying. A few Austrailians and other just to be fair but a token number compaired to our troop levels. So where are they???????????????











posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 05:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by lazy1981
And yes, the Romans named that area "Palestine" so it was known by that name long before the 20's.


There has never in the history of the world been a country called "Palestine." The Romans, as you know, did conquer and rename Jerusalem as well as Judea. They expelled Jews from Jerusalem but not from Judea ("Palestinia") as a whole. When Arab rule of the area started, hundreds of years later, the region was basically part of Southern Syria; it was never a nation state known as "Palestine." The idea of a "Palestinian Arab" did NOT occur until the 20's. That's not to say that they don't have a right to self determination, like anyone else.


Originally posted by lazy1981
I'm pretty sure that the Gaza Strip was Egyptian territory prior to the Arab Israeli wars anyway.


It was. Hence, my suggestion that the Arab nations step up to the plate and help solve the problem... ceding Gaza back to Egypt is the most rational solution.


Originally posted by lazy1981
I wish I could. But I don't realy think that Israel would ever let that come to light, do you. The Nazi's tried there best to keep their escapades under wraps as any government would and does.


Israel has a free press, and when the IDF screws up and kills civilians its widely reported there. Check out Ha'aretz.. it's the best, and most liberal, Israeli newspaper that is printed in English.


Originally posted by lazy1981
Let me start by saying no, I have never been to Israel but I have seen the news and meet Some Israelis and there seems to be an awfull lot of fair skinned people that claim that land as their ancestrial home. Now lets not forget the flocks of millions that came from Europe and Russia.


They weren't originally from there, but obviously they mixed to some degree with the native peoples of Europe. However, if you look at the study that I posted, you'll see that the European Jews mostly share DNA with other residents of the Middle East. And, you're not counting the Sephardic Jews and Jews that lived in the Middle East (in both Israel and Arab Countries) who never emigrated to Europe. As I said, if you were to visit Israel, you'd see for yourself that those Jews in particular are dark skinned.


Originally posted by lazy1981
Whether or not the Bible is or isn't a literal history is a good point. I'm sure that some of it isn't entirely accurate. So do we then pick and choose which parts we want to beleive? Ok then I choose not to beleive that the Jews hold any legitimate claim to the land they call Israel then. That is what they base their claims on anyway right (they get it straight from the Bible) so then the matter is settled I suppose.


The presence of Jewish people in the Land of Israel is documented by over 5700 years of archeology... you don't need to be a biblical literalist to see that.


Originally posted by lazy1981
We didn't "make" Israel do anything we asked them not to respond and we did in fact take care of the problem. We didn't want Sadamm's plan to work. He only did that because knew that the Arabs in the coalition would drop out if they knew that Israel was involved or attacked Iraq in any way. Try your trickery on someone that doesn't like history.


Trickery? I stated a fact. We pressured Israel to not retaliate against Iraq. By the way, I'm glad you "like" history... my undergrad degree was in history. I wish more people would study it.


Originally posted by lazy1981
All I see is American and British boys and girls fighting and dying. A few Austrailians and other just to be fair but a token number compaired to our troop levels. So where are they???????????????


If the US wanted Israel to send troops there, they would. But obviously that would inflame the Muslim world, and our ally Turkey especially. If you think the war is to benefit Israel, you are seriously mistaken.. it's about controlling oil reserves. This war has harmed Israel AND the Sunni Arab nations in the region by empowering Iran.


Originally posted by lazy1981


Cute.
By the way, I'm still waiting for you to substantiate that Ariel Sharon "quote" you posted. I looked for it again, but all I got were a bunch of Neo-Nazi/White Nationalist web sites. Since you posted it, I'm sure you found it from a reputable source. Please link it.


[edit on 1/11/2008 by JustMe74]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 10:22 PM
link   
reply to post by JustMe74
 


First I would like to say that the Smileys were not supposed to be cute, it was a computer glitch.

Also, under further examination I RETRACT my previous quote as I have found that it was what appears to be a mis quote (which I found out here www.camera.org) by columnist Georgie Ann Geyer (not my source though).

Although there is archeological evidence that puts Semetic peoples in the land of modern day Israel 5700 years ago it does not necessarily mean that todays Jews are those people. Todays Jews lay claim to that land based on a Biblical pretence. And there is also archeological evedence that substantiates the Exodus story in turn making the wholesale slaughter of the Medianites and Cannanites very plausible. Might I add that the original Canaanites, Medianites, Akkadians, and Arabswere/are of Semetic blood and similar culture and who's to say that these archeological finds are not what's left of the Canaanite peoples and so forth. I (and to the best of my knowledge) nor you were there to see these finds or substantiate what is published about them. That said it is merely conjecture on your part.

What I'm getting at is that if the Bible is were they find their reason for taking over that region than I feel no pitty for the way that Jewish peoples have been treated. As the same Bible says You reap what you sow. If your opinion is based upon the idea that the archeological digs revealed that a Semetic peoples lived there than the Palestinians and "native" Jews both have a right to the land and need to act like civilized people about the matter. And you must admit that neither of them have. As for the White Jewish converts they need to go back to Europe and leave the Middle East to the Semites.

As far as this genetic study that you speak of look closely into that because a similar study shows that we are all descendants of the same mother ie. the Adam and Eve story. This was based on a study of the Mitochondrial DNA. So if they messed up and did thatthen they could very well say that a Korean man is a descendant of the area. You follow? And no, I realy can't site the study it was a dicovery channel thing.

As far as the Palestine thing, Palestine is synonymous with the Roman Paestina and the Greek Palaistina; Furthermore it is widely held that the name/word Palestine comes from Philistine which are also people in the Bible so there may have been a region that was called that long ago but as you know some things can forever be lost to the sands of time. We may never know with 100% certainty.
As far as troops go when has Israel ever worried about inflamming the Muslims sensetive nature? But I ge your point my point is if they are such the puppets or allies where is the help that an ally would offer up? I have n't seen it have you? And yes, we are ther for the oil I'm very sure of that in Iraq. Not Afganistan.

Any way if you have a rebuttal lets keep it as simple as possible I think we may have mesed up this guys rant about the Jews taking over the world.


I do beleive that the Bankers are trying to ie. The Bilderbergers and some like the Jewish Rothschild family may be involved but I don't follow the whole "Jewish take over."



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 10:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by masonica_esoterica
I am in no means justifying bombings of any type by any one group of people on another,be they suicide or air strike,however how do you stop a suicide bomber?

Educate them.

The inability to sway with words or dilate a mind comes from ignorance.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 05:11 AM
link   
I am glad to see some reasonable responces...I understand my post is long and has many options open for conversation.

I just finished reading throught the comments.

I will do my best to respond.

First the intention of this post is for your to explore the links to further information.

The links provide all the neccesary information and more to back up what I have written.

Ask yourself...why are they imprisoning all the historical researchers? Why have come to be known as Revisionists..First of all none of them ever wrote anything attacking or hating jews...Remember Zionismism does not mean jewish..anyone can be a Zionist..Zionism is not a religion or anything else..it is just a secret covert organisation...

Hey for that Guy that lived in North York Toronto...I lived there at that time too..When I was in North York...Ernst Zundel was fighting his first holocaust trial..Which he won...

The holocaust industry could not produce one shred of proof to their claims..all they had were so called 'Eye witnesses" Every single witness was proven to be lieing and there testimonies were not accepted..

Anyway I was on his wifes mailing list for the past 25 years..so I got to see and read all the documentation to back up what I am telling you..

I do not want this thread to be about the holocaust...I want to be for you to go out and not be afraid to find the truth for your self..

The media, school books and everything you have been told all your life are just deceptions.

go figure who this quote belongs to "Do war through deception"

Anyway they control everything..few will ever learn the truth nor will they even try... which is why I love this quote "The closed minded see nothing, but know everything"

Now for the responce about the H.R 1955 bit..go watch the video link I provided and then go from there and go find the truth...

Since when does the USA need homegrown terrorism laws...

I bet you believe the story told my the media about 911... you watched with your own eyes as floor by floor of the world trade center was blown with thermate...

What a joke..steel buildings don't just melt into dust...

Go read my article "The gray plane that no one saw" and if your really brave go read "Are you ready for the truth?'

Soon, very very soon ..all free speech like this thread will be ended..we will be getting a visit from the guys in black..

I don't have time to check and read the responces very often. but I will return...

But I think that this post provides enough for you to have intelligent conversation without me..

Try to keep your insulting, hateful, demeaning, and attacking expressions out of the thread and you may actually provide a chance for those with alternative views to come out of the wood work..

But most are cowards....only the brave seek truth, all others are just cowards..

If your thoughts and responces are based on ideas you learned from corporate America, be it television, hollywood or what ever..they will never contain truth..

When you stare at those most convincing talking heads on television..Do you have the opportunity to ask them questions about their reporting?

No you do not...

I do not want anyone that reads my articles to believe me or take my word for anything..I want you to always have an open mind..and remember there is always two sides to every story. When you learn both sides then and only then can you rightly make your own free thoughts..That is the meaning and purpose of freedom of speech

Unfortunately the corporate conditioning is so effective that most want to attack anyone that says anything different..

Thats how lemmings are bred...

So far it appears that no one who has responded has checked any of the links I provided...



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 05:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by masonica_esoterica
I am in no means justifying bombings of any type by any one group of people on another,be they suicide or air strike,however how do you stop a suicide bomber?They obviously place no value on their own life, so you can't really threaten them with death, as that is their means to an end.However they most likely want their loved ones to live, so I imagine after a few bombings of the families of suicide bombers, the incidence of suicide bombings would decline somewhat.Just because you are willing to sacrifice your own life to an ideology, does not inherently mean you are willing to sacrifice your wife, children, mother,father etc as well.Both sides in the dispute are dealing death at the end of the day.

---------------------------
Thats terrible thinking...so if someone in your family goes out a kills someone..you thinks it would be alright to go and kill you and all your family....

That is absolutely scary thinking..



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 12:21 PM
link   
daniel towsey,

forgive me for my nieve questions - i am a new member.

I have read through you most of what you have written and let me say, I'm dumbfounded.

You want me to believe that everything I have learned throughout my whole life - 44 years, has been a lie? (Does 2+2=4??? can I use my fingers and tows to count to 20???)

That there is an underlying truth which is "not known" to us - but not stated.

That there is some "they" who controls everything in the world. So, the people who are our police, judges, lawyers, mayors, govenors, senators...etc. are not in control or have no power.?

If that is true, WHO then controls? WHO rules? WHO makes laws?

For me to "swallow" what you say is very far-fetched.

You say that what I saw, on the STREETS of NYC on 911 was a controlled demolition with "thermite"???????? I am not about to argue 911 with you but, what you say and what I "saw" are two different things.

Sir, what are your credentials?

Who are you that we should believe?

What makes Your trueth - trueth?

Where is your Proof?

Extraordinary statements require proof. You give none other than some websites, articles you've written and calling "the establishment" lies and a couple of "you tube" videos - which could have been manufactured for your point of view .

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with you.

Also, your claim that this new anti-terrorism law is about losing more freedoms...I beg to differ.

The same thing was said about the patriot act and that has not come to pass. I live the same life today as I lived before the patriot act.

I've lost nothing. If this law gets passed, my life will remain unchanged as will the lives of many US citizens.

Now, your entitled to believe whatever you want and I'm not gonna argue with you but, I don't have to sit here and believe what your shoveling.





[edit on 15-1-2008 by harrymudd]



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 05:16 PM
link   
your totally right daniel. im one of the adults of tommorow and the youth of today are ignorant. they refer to their idols(rap artist). which is garbage . its the men behind the curtains master plan to make the youth blindsided of their plans for the NWO. the media of today is too fill our head with junk we dont need and its literally deteriating our minds and our freedom to think. my generation is literally raised by the tv it tells us what to think , what to do, what to wear, what to say, thats why the sex rate for young girls is so high. It makes me mad ,,,all that aside great articles its very imformative
Good Luck



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 06:30 PM
link   
reply to post by ke1ewood
 


Rock and roll has nothing to do with NWO. You can blame Elvis Presley for it, not NWO. LOL Rock and roll came about after world war II and it's just what the country needed. It seems to me that you probably listen to a little Rock and roll yourself and just don't like the rap genre, neither do I but it's a free contry. Rock and roll spawned from Jazz and rap spawned from both. Woman have rights just like men do, they are no longer told to cover themselves up and stay at home like they used to be told to so get over yourself.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 10:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by spirit7
Rock and roll has nothing to do with NWO. You can blame Elvis Presley for it, not NWO. LOL Rock and roll came about after world war II and it's just what the country needed.


Wow, that's a pretty odd statement.

Rock & roll was a term coined by Alan Freed and had nothing at all to do with WWII. It wasn't 'what the country needed' it was just the music of the day that the youth liked to dance to. Contributing it to WWI is just ... odd.

Your pal,
Meat.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 01:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by mmmeat

Originally posted by masonica_esoterica
I am in no means justifying bombings of any type by any one group of people on another,be they suicide or air strike,however how do you stop a suicide bomber?

Educate them.

The inability to sway with words or dilate a mind comes from ignorance.

Your pal,
Meat.


How do you educate someone in a media controlled Theocracy where extreme fundamentalists have used religion as a means to an end,and twist words of holy writ for a demographic of people to validate their campaigns of bloodshed and death?Ever research "honor killings" in Islamic countries?Tell me how a society that tolerates that is capable of being educated in theories that run counter to their indoctrination.Some parts of religious texts are not really applicable in today's society because of the antiquated time that they were written in.Jews and Christians both have reverence for the Old Testament as the word of God, but I don't see them stoning people to death for transgressions,even the most fundamentalist Jews and Christians,as opposed to militant Islam...



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 01:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by danieltowsey

Thats terrible thinking...so if someone in your family goes out a kills someone..you thinks it would be alright to go and kill you and all your family....

That is absolutely scary thinking..


No less scary than your anti-semitic holocaust denying white supremicist hatred dressed up pseudointellectually that you bring to these boards.

Go take your hate mongering somewhere else.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 01:54 PM
link   
Wow, interesting thread.

Two thoughts: questioning the holocaust is fine. Questioning everything is healthy, just time-consuming. But the holocaust is a fairly recent event. It's not difficult to research it. The information is everywhere, including primary sources: holocaust survivors and Europeans that lived through it. That the holocaust occured cannot be denied. It is one of the most documented issues of the 20th century. To argue how many were killed is mere semantics. It doesn't really matter. It was too many. Ethnic cleansing is as old as civilization. More recent examples are found in Kosovo, the Congo, the Sudan, Rwanda. It's not a Jewish thing, nor a Christian thing. It's a human thing. To deny it, is to feed into the fear and hatred.

Second thought: I don't see the use in arguing who was there first when we discuss Israel and Palestine. If being there first was all that mattered, then most of us would have to up and leave the U.S. since I believe the land was already occupied when the first European settlers arrived.

Land and resources have always been the reason for war. The Crusades may appear to have been religious in nature, but they had much more to do with land, resources, the acquisition of wealth. Getting a nation to rally to your banner for the sake of money is a hard sell. Make it a religious mandate, a call from God, and you have a much easier time of it.

Likewise the current engagement in Iraq. A war for oil or political stability doesn't win you re-election. You need to put the fear of god into people with WMD and an axis of evil.

Check out my blog: Esoterica in America



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 02:53 PM
link   
reply to post by AJ Lavender
 


I see your point about arguing who was there first. And you are dead on. At this point it realy doesn't matter. Nobody is leaving even if it were proved 100% that the Palestinians were the rightful inhabitants of the land. (or vice-versa) I say that Israel needs to be fair with the Palestinians and in turn they need to stop terrorizing the Israelis.

As far as we (The US) goes, your statement is true but, at least we make no effort (in this day and age) to deny the many wrongs perpetrated on Native Americans. Unfortunately our government nor us citizens press to right these wrongs in any way that is worth mentioning. The difference is just that, Israel will not even acknowledge there transgressions. We aren't going to leave but we at least own up to our BS.

As far as my earlier arguments, I just had to make my point. I can't seem to let things go.



posted on Jan, 21 2008 @ 05:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by masonica_esoterica
How do you educate someone in a media controlled Theocracy where extreme fundamentalists have used religion as a means to an end,and twist words of holy writ for a demographic of people to validate their campaigns of bloodshed and death?Ever research "honor killings" in Islamic countries?Tell me how a society that tolerates that is capable of being educated in theories that run counter to their indoctrination.Some parts of religious texts are not really applicable in today's society because of the antiquated time that they were written in.Jews and Christians both have reverence for the Old Testament as the word of God, but I don't see them stoning people to death for transgressions,even the most fundamentalist Jews and Christians,as opposed to militant Islam...

That, my friend, is the million dollar question.

I totally agree with you that educating people is an uphill battle, but - at the end of the day - it has to be done.

There are some places in the world - the middle east, certainly - that very much remind me of the early Middle Ages, when the literate tended to rule the illiterate. It's easy to be 'all powerul' when you're the one what's got the learnin'.

So ... how to educate?

Your pal,
Meat.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<< 1    3 >>

log in

join