It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

From the Inside: It's your own fault that you're getting chipped!

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 04:47 AM
link   
Chipping technology allows parents to make sure their children take the bus, and if a child loses their backpack somewhere on school grounds, or on the bus the chance of getting it back is increased. On top of that, it is completely voluntary. I can see legislation being passed making it mandatory though. It is compulasary government education, so if you don't want to send your child to a private school, you have to accept the whole package if the chip is included.

If you don't want to accept it, then protest about it to your representatives. The reality is that if you don't accept a way for authorities to track your child, (because you haven't given them a personal GPS system that gives you, and only you the ability to track them, have you?) then you are being irresponsible by not taking advantage of the new technology to protect your children. If you do not fear that your children will be kidnapped then you are either an uncaring parent or living in lala land where abduction does not exist - or maybe you just think your child has a natural immunity to abduction. So whos fault is it, really?

You can whine about it all you want, and protest Orwelian ad nauseum, but it is a good idea to track your children, wherever they are. Its up to you as a parent to form a bond of trust so that they will be honest to you about their intended destinations when they get a little older. It's up to you if you are going to do it yourself, or submit to the cheap authority version. If you do neither, you are being irresponsible and risking a real child abduction/rape/murder/cult case where you will never see your child again.

The parents (as a whole, or even a majority) certainly are not doing it, so the government is stepping up for the could-be-more-responsible-but-not-completely-irresponsible parents.

According to these sites,

"Approximately 2,100 missing children reports are filed each day"

"Approximately 60 percent of attempted abductions occur when a child is going to and from school or school-related activities"

It's not real until it happens. The arguments about chips have nothing to do with the chip, or with tracking. It is merely your fears that authority is showing you that you are not taking advantage of technology, and so being irresponsible in trying to decrease the chance of your children going missing - and you don't want to accept it, so you place the blame on the government school system, or switch the focus on lost backpacks.

You hide behind fears of government taking more power, because you did nothing to avert it. You did nothing to stop the government from having to do it, simply because you you wouldn't do it.

Step up, and protect your children. Track them yourselves, so the government won't have to.

There is no conspiracy underway to microchip the entire population. The only conspiracy is one of irresponsibility and shifting blame.

With that, the government that you are a citizen of has the right to know where you are as long as you are a citizen and potential criminal who may harm other citizens and their/public property, just as you have the right to know who is on your property and what they are doing.

Face the truth, get over your fears, and accept that if you follow the guidelines, then you will be safer, period. The government does not have the need, or the interest to track everyones every move, just as they don't have the need to read everyones email or tap every phone call. The only one that is chipped who gives up their liberty is the criminal. They no longer have the liberty to hide from the system or perform serial crime. By extension, this would render anyone not chipped as a criminal with probable cause - as it should be to identify those who have taken out their chip.

"Nothing has been the same since 9/11" - Nothing has been the same since we realized that America is full of quiters. Blame it on the passengers that sat there and did nothing to stop it - cowards, the lot of them. Not a leader on the plane! Subserviant sheep! Your government is stepping up because America has turned into a bunch of cowards, fearful, obese excuses for free men and women that don't have the guts to protect themselves and the people around them. Irresponsible, selfish ingrates I say!

Leave it to the police, they say. Call the police, call the fire department. Stand looking out your window as your neighbors house is on fire. "But what can I do? I'm just a fat coward!" Stand looking there as the plane is hijacked "Oh God, I'm so scared, help me Jesus!". Stand there as the convienent store is robbed. "Oh, I hope I don't get shot" Stand there as you witness a murder. "I better get out of here so I don't get hurt". Runaway and call the police as you just witnessed a rape in an alley. "I better run, or I may get hurt!" Don't do anything about it, leave it to the government - and then whine as they try to protect people who can't protect themselves. Whine and shout conspiracy as the government tries to institute measures that will protect people, because the people sure as hell don't protect each other.

There is no conspiracy except the one orchastrated by every lazy, obese, fox watching, reality TV loving, uneducated, selfish, living-on-credit coward American out there.

You know who you are.



[edit on 9-1-2008 by benign.psychosis]




posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 12:04 PM
link   
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 




the government that you are a citizen of has the right to know where you are as long as you are a citizen and potential criminal who may harm other citizens and their/public property, just as you have the right to know who is on your property and what they are doing.


Citizens are not government property. Most public places are owned by local municipalities, not Washington DC.

The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution says that citizens have a right to be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" in the absense of probable cause. These technologies reinforce the ideology that guilt be presumed because we are all six degress of Kevin Bacon from Saddam bin Laden.

I think the constant monitoring of citizens is also problemmatic from the perspective of the Fifth Amendment.

Children have rights. They are the largest demographic without political representation.

The point is valid that robot consumer parents and children might reasonably benefit from pervasive tracking technology. But I also think there is a resounding absence of meaningful public debate about what psychological effects might come into play when children are socialized to accept such surveillance, and how such systems might be secured against hackers and disgruntled employees.

Furthermore, while it may not be the case that the government is intercepting, transcribing, and making backups of all your phone calls, I think the nature of the surveillance systems being presently deployed is quite different from what people presume or are sufficiently educated to intuit. Given the prevalence of quantitative reasoning in contemporary bureaucracies, I think it's worth considering what "innovations" might have stemmed from the discovery some decades ago that, mathematically, information systems behave similarly to thermodynamic systems.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 01:46 AM
link   
I would have thought more people would respond to this. I guess everyone is happy with their dystopian chip.

Thank you for the post.


Originally posted by America Jones
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 




the government that you are a citizen of has the right to know where you are as long as you are a citizen and potential criminal who may harm other citizens and their/public property, just as you have the right to know who is on your property and what they are doing.


Citizens are not government property. Most public places are owned by local municipalities, not Washington DC.


I'm not really sure why you brought that up. Children are not their parents property either, but it is their responsibilty to protect them.

There are many governments within the union, and each has the right, the power, and the responsiblity to protect the people that make it. Police work the beat, searching and tracking criminals and suspected criminals. It would cost much less taxpayer/government money if such criminals where chipped. Believe it or not, they go on stings in NY City and arrest people who would pull their penis out in public.



The Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution says that citizens have a right to be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" in the absense of probable cause. These technologies reinforce the ideology that guilt be presumed because we are all six degress of Kevin Bacon from Saddam bin Laden.


And that technology would bolster ones ability to be secure. Simply having your whereabouts or vital signs known by the police/hospital does more good than harm, unless you have something to hide. If someone sees that you've walked in your house and locked the door, they have essentialy tracked you to your house, but you have lost no privacy. The same goes for a chip. People who are against the chip do not really want privacy, they want some type of anonymity.

I know these type of people - I'm one of them. I'd rather live a sustained lifestyle away from the government and its tracking and snooping. We can take care of ourselves, defend ourselves and those around us.

The chip is not about us. It's about those people who can not defend themselves, and about those people that won't defend those around them.

If you are a criminal, or someone who does not wish to assimilate into the new society, you will be jailed / punished accordingly. Monitoring every citizen will introduce a new type of perpetual order of security that we have never before seen.



I think the constant monitoring of citizens is also problemmatic from the perspective of the Fifth Amendment.


Not monitoring citizens produces serial criminals and fugitives. By tracking the population by various scanning points the unsavory individuals that spoil society could be found by way of identification, or by way of non-indentification due to absense of a chip. Their only other choice would be to leave society all together - where they could not do as much harm.



Children have rights. They are the largest demographic without political representation.


What is that supposed to mean? Are you suggesting that we should have 10 year old congressboys passing lollipop legislation? Children have rights, but they shouldn't have the right to be kinapped or go missing.



The point is valid that robot consumer parents and children might reasonably benefit from pervasive tracking technology. But I also think there is a resounding absence of meaningful public debate about what psychological effects might come into play when children are socialized to accept such surveillance, and how such systems might be secured against hackers and disgruntled employees.


Hackers and disgruntled employees is an empty argument. That follows the same logic that you should never connect to the internet because of hackers, or that you should never watch Disney films because of disgruntled employees. I would think the psychological effects of being tracked for your security are much less severe than the psyological effects of being kinapped/lost/hurt and everything else that is preventable in some way by the creation of a system that utilizes ID chips and checkpoints in public places.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:45 AM
link   
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


Tell me, when do you let go of the imaginary leash o wise one. We've been able to grow up without this technology and without having our parents monitor every single thing we do, why can't our children? When do you let your children grow up on their own? Call it irresponsible if you'd like it just further proves how little you trust your child as well as your own abilities as a parent. The fact you want them tag like cattle so you can monitor their every move disgusts me.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 12:08 PM
link   
I wonder if fear is not just a natural stage of evolution.
Yes any tool can be misused or used correctly.

If fear abounds it would seem that the tool would be used inappropriately due to people putting their focus on the wrong area, and a few manipulating the tool to their will. (think about this for awhile)

The tool - technology.
If you watch films like "visions of the future" with futurist Michio Kaku, and 2057 (think he is in that one to), you will realize that technology has been unleashed and its in our future because its in our present. (No this does not mean get rid of technology...it means embrace it.)

Embrace, learn, and "deny ignorance", and you will know what your up against and how to use the same tool for a beneficial means. This way it cant be used as a weapon of manipulation because you will recognize it.

Lets face it, any resurrection from the dead (Christian belief) more than likely will use dna manipulation from the material of the dead body. (Some may say, 'no god will do it.' But let me remind you that God is the one who 'made' the laws of the universe, so Im sure He will be using dna manipulation as one potential means to bring people back)

What does all this mean? Basically we are like cavemen using archaic symbology trying to understand things above us. (i.e. the sacred text of the world are pointers, allegories, parables, not to be taken on the level they are given. But many view it this way, and thus we have all kind of theories based on fear...which is the very element that is supposed to be foreign to the Christian faith.)

Anyway, as mentioned, we probably will have our next evolution as human 2.o. (video out with that title as well, and i believe Michio is in that one, but may not be.) Nano bots, etc, this can really be exciting if you take a moment and think of the potential and dont live in fear.

What does this have to do with being chipped. Well this is nothing compared to what the technology can bring. What are we afraid of being chipped for? That it will control us? Manipulate us? Is that not what fear has been doing all of these centuries and still today?

We fight, and kill in the name of fear. Think about this awhile.
It would seem most of you live your life in fear of a tomorrow, that will only arrive as a 'present moment' - that is many of us are living in a future that will never come, as there will always be another 'windmill' to attack and be afraid of.

Fear is the true monster. It is the Hydra who grows another head after cutting off one.

What would happen if you became aware of your surroundings. Stopped the constant buzz in your head of thought, and just watched. Observe your conversation, observer what you write, observe the environment in which you take place. How do you feel now, how is your body reacting? Can you tell if its tense? Be present and enjoy what you have now.

This does not mean you cannot make plans and draw up goals, but you will be present and aware and a sense of peace will be in whatever action you take.

What good is it fighting for peace and freedom, if in your constant walk you have to continually do it in the slavery of fear? then you are already a slave, and no chip will matter after that. What will the chip do, make you by one brand of potato chips over another? Make you vote one way over the other, as if one side was really that different? Something I alluded to here.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 11-1-2008 by dAlen]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 12:24 PM
link   
All they would have to do to me is use a metal detector,I have enough titanium in me,I've gained 9 lbs



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 12:47 PM
link   



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 01:11 PM
link   
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


Hi BP,
I'm beginning to think you just enjoy stirring up controversy. It's hard to believe someone could honestly take the position you have, especially someone who's talked to aliens and been to the kuiper belt.

Regardless of what you have to say, it is my decision as a parent to determine what new technology to impose on my kids and what not to. Your argument makes as much sense as states that asserted the right to take ADHD diagnosed kids away from their parents if they chose not to feed them Ritalin, which later turned out to increase the risk of suicide and has been linked to them going berserk. Oops.

How many kids do you have?

Perhaps you should change your nick to "not-so-benign". Rather than say anything personal and negative, I finally get to see what this ignore button is all about. Bye.

[edit on 11-1-2008 by lifestudent]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:21 PM
link   
reply to post by dAlen
 


There's nothing wrong with embracing and learning new technology. But we as individuals have to accept it. Having our children tracked by our schools and govt. without our permission is not what I would call embracing, so much as it being forced down our throats. You simply can't do things that way (not imo) not without expecting hostilities. If the school gives me an option, that's great, but saying it'll be done regardless, that's not having the backing of the people.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 01:18 AM
link   

Originally posted by Question
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


Tell me, when do you let go of the imaginary leash o wise one. We've been able to grow up without this technology and without having our parents monitor every single thing we do, why can't our children? When do you let your children grow up on their own? Call it irresponsible if you'd like it just further proves how little you trust your child as well as your own abilities as a parent. The fact you want them tag like cattle so you can monitor their every move disgusts me.



You may think it is an imaginary leash, when it is more like an imaginary safety net. We've been able to grow up without this technology, just as we've been able to grow up without anything but stone tools. You should just get rid of your house, your car, TV, DVD player, computer - everything. Humans don't need any of it, they've been able to grow up without it.

Do you have a cellphone or a GPS in your car? I suppose you better chuck them.


Technological evolution is what we create. I'd rather not live in a world where "We've been able to grow up" with 2,100 children going missing everyday. Do you like that world? This type of technology has the potential to greatly reduce such crimes, as well as many others - you should not be so quick to deny it simply because of a primitive emotion such as fear.

Do not be so silly, child abuction and other crime has nothing to do with the trust bond between parent and child. Knowing where your child is at all times is something that a parent is reponsible, is it not? Are you really telling me that it is intrusive to your 8 year olds privacy to know where they are? It seems to be what you are saying.



The fact you want them tag like cattle so you can monitor their every move disgusts me.


It's not tagging them like cattle - it's tagging them like humans. You're going to have to get used to that concept, because it is already here.

The bottom line is that if you do not know where your children are at all times, you are an irresponsible parent.



Call it irresponsible if you'd like it just further proves how little you trust your child as well as your own abilities as a parent.


This is an odd thing to say, resorting to personal attacks and claiming that there is proof that I don't trust my children - how silly of you.

It appears that by your reasoing, a child whis abducted is not trustworthy? Are you saying that only the distrustful children get kidnapped? I for one, do not trust criminals to turn themselves in, do you? A chipping system with checkpoints would surely be able to expediently identify wanted individuals as well as those that took out their chip for some reason.



When do you let your children grow up on their own?


Right after you chip them!
Simply knowing where your child is does not result in sociocultural retardation.

Take a moment to think about it critically, as all you offer are empty arguments. You need to come up with something better than:

Appealing to tradition: "We've always done it"

Prejudice: "when do you let go of the imaginary leash"

Ad hominem: " it just further proves how little you trust your child as well as your own abilities as a parent")

Strawman: "The fact you want them tag like cattle so you can monitor their every move disgusts me"

You're entire argument is illogical, surely you can come up with something better?



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 01:22 AM
link   
reply to post by dAlen
 


dAlen,

That was a great post. I see you can take an objective and realistic stance on the issue.

Thank you for your input



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 01:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by lifestudent
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


Hi BP,
I'm beginning to think you just enjoy stirring up controversy. It's hard to believe someone could honestly take the position you have, especially someone who's talked to aliens and been to the kuiper belt.


If you do not like controversy, perhaps you should go to a message board where everyone shares the same opinion about everything... It often is difficult for close-minded individuals to step in the shoes of another.



Regardless of what you have to say, it is my decision as a parent to determine what new technology to impose on my kids and what not to. Your argument makes as much sense as states that asserted the right to take ADHD diagnosed kids away from their parents if they chose not to feed them Ritalin, which later turned out to increase the risk of suicide and has been linked to them going berserk. Oops.
[edit on 11-1-2008 by lifestudent]


School is a form of technology, and you do not have the right to decide whether your children attend or not. I'm sure you can think of many others.

As far as ADHD is concerned, it is wonderful that as a society of humans we can make mistakes and also remedy them once we identify problems, view statistics, and perform case studies. Simply denying a form of technology out of fear, and using something only vaguely similar as an example to refute it, is rather foolish.

The States operated from the standpoint that a psychologically proven (if you agree or not - you are not an authority on the matter, obviously) condition that existed was not being treated the way that doctors reccomended. The parents were not perceived as taking care of their children by way of what was medically accepted - so the government stepped in, as it has the right to do, to play the responsible parent - even if it is not the ideal parent.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 01:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Question
reply to post by dAlen
 


There's nothing wrong with embracing and learning new technology. But we as individuals have to accept it. Having our children tracked by our schools and govt. without our permission is not what I would call embracing, so much as it being forced down our throats. You simply can't do things that way (not imo) not without expecting hostilities. If the school gives me an option, that's great, but saying it'll be done regardless, that's not having the backing of the people.


Much like compulsory education, driver's licenses, passports, taxes, etc.. You are correct that you as individuals don't have to accept anything, but you as citizens do. You are free to move somewhere else, or If you don't like it, you need to get active and do something about it besides spreading a message of fear and unrealisitc ideology.



Having our children tracked by our schools and govt. without our permission is not what I would call embracing


So you won't let the government protect your children without your permission? You'd rather have them be more suseptible to danger, based on the ideology of permission? Please explain.

There will always be a group of people such as yourself that don't agree with the chip - and even others who are so silly to believe it is the mark of satan, but you'll only accomplish what tax protestors accomplish today - nothing. Rebels without a cause, the lot of them.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 11:01 AM
link   



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 11:07 AM
link   
reply to post by Spawwwn
 


Spawwwn,
As another member of the community who sees no redeeming value in the trollish behavior of "benign" psychosis, beyond insulting members of this community, I would ask that you don't leave. If you do, please come back and send me a U2U to let me know what other community you've found that is active, open minded, and better moderated.

I do agree with you that the mods tolerance of this guy is destructive to the community. I'd have a lot to say, but trolls typically revel in being insulted or pissing people off. I hope you reconsider.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 11:17 AM
link   



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 11:45 AM
link   
reply to post by Spawwwn
 


I can't defend what the mods did to your post, and I agree with you that they should consider his statement a personal attack against people who can't respond.

What I can say is that I recently used the ignore button on this guy because he seems like a teenager with a goal of getting people upset vs. spreading real information, learning anything himself, or creating any honest debate. Blow him off. Posts like his will engender a similar reaction internally as you had in anyone with a brain whether you engage with him or not. I don't know if you knew people who died that day, and I'm really sorry if so. Regardless, he's not worth one molecule of stress cortisol from any decent person.

Thanks for the e-mail, and one related comment... I've always found that "name at domain" is a safer way to post an e-mail publicly than the actual spammagnet@example.com, even if the only reason is to have less stuff to sort through. Every time any of my emails have ended up in the wild, those accounts eventually become unusable.

Mods, it would be great to see some response.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 03:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Spawwwn

he called the people on the hyjacked planes cowards, and by not punishing him the mods are DEFENDING WHAT HE SAID.


Were they cowards? Did anyone stand up against hijackers with BOX CUTTERS? 1 and a half inch razor blades?

I know damn well I would have! I have the ability to do so, and is is a disgrace that other people do not have the foresight to train to protect themselves. How many passengers and how many hijackers? You tell me. You tell me who was lacking in courage. Who were the cowards on those planes?

I say the only one with courage were the highjackers! everyone else was frozen in fear like some poor excuse for an active, intelligent, defensive human being!

Who could have saved each other?

Who had the ability to save one another on those planes against a few people armed with 1 and a half inch razor blades?




There's a forum comming soon..a forum with every type of subject you can immagine and a better team of mods who won't go ride your ass about stupid # every 5 minutes.


Except calling people cowards, I suppose.


An old quote sums up my actions best..to paraphraze the great Malcom X.."i don't call it violence when it's in self defense, i call that intellegence"..


And there didn't appear to be any violence on those planes toward the "terrorists". What are you trying to say, that the passengers were stupid?

I don't say they were stupid: I say they were cowards. The whole lot of them.

[edit on 12-1-2008 by benign.psychosis]

[edit on 12-1-2008 by benign.psychosis]



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 11:33 AM
link   



posted on Jan, 15 2008 @ 12:47 PM
link   
reply to post by Spawwwn
 


Thanks for the post, Spawwwn!

You are exactly the type of person who should be chipped! You are a good example of the the type of people who act on emotion and can not control themselves to the point of holding back, even on a message board...

It is a shame, indeed.

It is people such as yourself who should be watched because of your emotional, violent outbursts towards other members of society that you find... "not agreeable."

You display nothing more than hatred, resent, and prejudice toward other humans beings simply *because you do not agree with them* and as such, can not even control your reaction.

This is were the problem starts, and you are part of it.

Thank you for your post, and have a nice day!



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join