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Black Lions in America

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posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 06:56 PM
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I watched the MonsterQuest on the Black lions that have been spotted through America and was wondering if anyone here on ATS has seen one or has any other proof then the show. I didn't think it was that unbelievable but still interesting. Here is the show if you wanted to see it:

Lions in the Backyard Part 1

Lions in the backyard Part 2

Lions in the backyard Part 3

Lions in the backyard Part 4

Lions in the backyard Part 5

Some of the proof in the show presented isn't that outstanding since a lot of them do look like big black house cats. I got to say though, on the one where they found the measurements 2 feet without the tail is a pretty darn big cat




posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 08:48 PM
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My grandmother has a black cat that has been reported as a panther sighting on more than one occasion.

I am a 20 year old man about 6ft tall, and when standing the cat comes up to nearly my waist.

I think similarly large black cats count account for a lot of the sightings, but it is like most unexplained phenomenon, once you sift through the 99% false alarms, there is always that 1% that can't be explained away.

We've got the big cat problem here in Australia as well. In rural areas there is countless sightings of large, unidentified felines hunting / killing livestock / pets etc.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by BlitzKrieger
 


This is not evidence but I will go ahead and tell this story of my encounter with a black panther. I did not realize that they did not exist, untill I watched that episode of Monsterquest.
My brother and I were walking on a forestry road that followed the main ridge of this mountain. The road would cross over from one side of the ridge to the other, at some of the lower spots. It was cut into the side of the hill, with a ten foot vertical bank on one side, and a drop-off, down the side of the mountain, on the other side. We heard a noise of something crashing through the brush below, so we went to the edge and looked down. A large buck was going hell-bent down hill, at a diagonal, right below us. Something was chasing it, and the buck was running for its life.(we could see the deer just enough to tell what it was, for a second, here and there. We could hear what was chasing it, but could not see it.) We watched until we could not see anything and it was too far away to follow exactly where the sound was coming from. We went on our way for a few seconds, and as soon as we got around the corner of the road we were face to face with three mountain lions that were following the trail of the first one, who was at the heels of the deer. It was the female and two large youngsters. The cubs immediately jumped off the side of the road and disappeared. The mother stood her ground, until she felt that the cubs were far enough away. She then jumped UP the bank, into some rocks, like is was no effort. We knew that she could just have easily been on top of us with one leap. She was above our path and we decided to proceed but we pulled our pocket knives out and tried to look tough until we were down the road and on the other side of the ridge. (of course, we took time to examine all the foot prints in the soft dust on the road. The cub's were the size of the palm of our hands. The female's was the size of our hands, to the middle of our fingers. The male's prints were the size of our whole hands. We saw that the female was a normal sized mountain lion. We figured the male must have been huge. There were stories from the ranchers who lived down the mountain, directly below this spot, that there was an unusually large black panther that lived in the area. we also saw the deer tracks. They had been running down the road until it turned so sharp that they kept going straight, right off the side of the mountain.)



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 01:23 AM
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There's a black cat that's native to southern texas that nobody ever seems to talk about when black cats in america are discussed.
It's called a Jaguarundi. Here's a pic.

Clickee, Clickee...

I watched the Monster Quest episode and, the description of the dead cat found on the fence seems to match this exactly.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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I agree 100% that many "Panther" or "Big Cat" sightings are the result of mistaken identity, i.e. house cats...


Originally posted by fooffstarr
My grandmother has a black cat that has been reported as a panther sighting on more than one occasion.

I am a 20 year old man about 6ft tall, and when standing the cat comes up to nearly my waist.

... but a 3 foot housecat? I would pay good money to see that cat. You wouldn't a picture would you?



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 06:53 AM
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I remember watching a show on Discovery or Animal Planet a year or two ago that covered this in detail.

They tracked sightings of lions and black panthers reported over two years, and broke it down to specific dates. They realized there appeared to be a migrationary pattern.

Also, there was a theory that it is a homogonious (spelling?) species, where females look like black panthers, and the males look like lions. They referred to the animals as North American Lions.

What I remember distinctly was the footage of the animals they caught. However, I am nto sure if it was "simulated" footage (showing what they might look like) or actual footage. Was interesting stuff. This was way before the time of MonsterQuest.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by TLomon
They tracked sightings of lions and black panthers reported over two years, and broke it down to specific dates. They realized there appeared to be a migrationary pattern.

Cats don't migrate, so that would be quite a funny thing...



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 07:02 AM
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Oh, some more information, before anyone thinks I am too out there. The North American Lion was thought to be extinct about 10,000 years ago.

Fossil Mysteries, San Diego Natural History Museum

There has even been DNA testing on fossiles, which disproved a previous theory that they were related to tigers, and are actually closer to the modern lion.

Molecular Phylogeny of the Extinct Cave Lion Panthera leo spelaea, Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution

Here is some information on the color differences I mentioned above.

The Cryptid Zoo: Panthera Atrox



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Cats don't migrate, so that would be quite a funny thing...


I am going to disagree with you on this one.

Migratory Patterns of Mountain Lions: Implications for Social Regulation and Conversation, American Society of Mammalogists



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Cats don't migrate, so that would be quite a funny thing...

TLomon is quite right. Although the cat family doesn't really migrate in the true sense of the word they can be nomadic. Another good example is African lion prides during the Wildebeest migrations in Central/East Africa. The prides follow the food back and forth thus they're "migrating" with the wildebeest. Also, young lions searching for a new pride to join are nomadic. Defeated males also do this. Although you won't find predictable movement patterns in these cases.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by TLomon

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Cats don't migrate, so that would be quite a funny thing...


I am going to disagree with you on this one.

Migratory Patterns of Mountain Lions: Implications for Social Regulation and Conversation, American Society of Mammalogists

Interesting, but I believe they move in patterns as I will explain below.

Originally posted by Gemwolf

Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
Cats don't migrate, so that would be quite a funny thing...

TLomon is quite right. Although the cat family doesn't really migrate in the true sense of the word they can be nomadic. Another good example is African lion prides during the Wildebeest migrations in Central/East Africa. The prides follow the food back and forth thus they're "migrating" with the wildebeest. Also, young lions searching for a new pride to join are nomadic. Defeated males also do this. Although you won't find predictable movement patterns in these cases.

It isnt migration you are describing, since larger cats that move with their prey (Wildebeest for instance, mountain lions described above) stop moving with them, when they reach the edge of their territory. I might be playing with the words here, but I definately don't see them as migrating.
There is no question about them being nomadic though. They do follow patterns when one of their *primary* prey moves around, but not in a sense that we could call them migrating. If we placed Big Macs around the plains in weird patterns over several years, they might starting following them instead.

Note, I don't know how mountain lions behave when it comes to territories, so the article (Which I didn't read more the half the front page of) could be right.

Edit: Quote from Wikipedia:


Most animal migrations involve seasonal movements to an area for breeding.

This isn't what the lions do. They just follow the prey. (And yeah, I do know it says "most" which doesn't really help my case
)

[edit on 9/1/08 by Thain Esh Kelch]



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by Thain Esh Kelch
It isnt migration you are describing, since larger cats that move with their prey (Wildebeest for instance, mountain lions described above) stop moving with them, when they reach the edge of their territory. I might be playing with the words here, but I definately don't see them as migrating.

[edit on 9/1/08 by Thain Esh Kelch]

Ah. It's a case of definition then.

the periodic passage of groups of animals (especially birds or fishes) from one region to another for feeding or breeding


Wildebeest migrate for feeding - not for breeding. I.e. they "follow the food". These migrating patterns are predictable. Prides of lions will follow these migrating Wildebeest, thus they are also "following the food" thus according to the definition they are "migrating".

I know, I'm just being technical.


But the actual question would be - is there a "migrating food source" these mysterious black cats would follow around, seasonally?



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 10:12 AM
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Hehe..



Originally posted by GemwolfBut the actual question would be - is there a "migrating food source" these mysterious black cats would follow around, seasonally?

Good question. I don't have enough knowledge of native US animal populations to say anything about this, but I would expect it to be a large animal with a significant population, which would rule out quite a few species. And, they have to move over a significant area to actually give the migrating patterns.

Actually, it quite puzzles me what it could be?
A quick look at Google seems to tell me that it is an area with quite a bit wilderness, containing lots of forests and mountains, correct?



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I was kind of confused, was the mountain lions that you saw black? Even if it wasn't that must have been an amazing thing to watch. Seeing a close up in real life of mountain lions chasing down a buck


And to the other people, I mostly agree, most of the sighting are probably house cats.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Gemwolf
 


I don't know if they follow a migrating animal for food because it seems like many of theses black lions that have been spotted are feeding off of livestock at farms. Many of them say they always return to their farm, so I am guessing they just live around the area and scavenge to find whatever animals they can eat and occasionally attack the farm animals when they are feeling brave.

That guys 250 pound llama was supposedly killed by one of them, which is a pretty tough kill.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by BlitzKrieger
 


The mountain lions that we ran into, on the road, were not black. This is not to clear because I cut my post out of the middle of a story I wrote about this incident. I figured I could fill in details if anyone was interested.
What I am assuming is that the larger cat that they were following was black. We did not get a good look at it. Mainly what we could make out of the cat was the movement of the brush, as it ran through it. We were pretty close to the action, when it first caught our attention.
From where we were standing, if you looked straight towards the bottom of the mountain, you would find a valley about half way down. The people who live at the ranch in that valley told me there was a black panther that lived above them. So, I assumed that was what we saw.
What I would like to emphasize is the size of the animal. I have seen plenty of mountain lion foot prints, but what this thing left was about 50% larger than a normal mountain lion print.
My guess is that this panther is some sort of hybrid with a jaguar, that can mate with normal mountain lion, and have normal looking off-spring.
Like I said in my previous post, up untill now, I did not think it was so rare. So I have never researched it. I will, now. I know exactly how big the print was because I put my hand in it and it was the same size as my hand, with my fingers spread out. Of course I realize that when it left these marks, it was running at full speed. So, it would have spread its paws out and made it bigger than if it was just walking.


[edit on 9-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 9-1-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 12:26 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Oh ok thanks for the clarification. Still sounds like a pretty intriguing story and any more research or proof you have is welcomed


Would have been amazing if you had a video camera and the thing ran right past you, I am sure they would do a MonsterQuest follow up.

I forgot to ask you also, when did this whole event happen? Was wondering if you were young or it happened a few weeks ago?

[edit on 1/10/2008 by BlitzKrieger]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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I guess you have to live in the U.S for that to be interesting.

I got too bored after the first part, mainly i think because of the fact that I am not familiar with all the animals that inhabit america. I know you have big cats already in the form of the cougar or mountain lion, and to have one a different colour really didn't interest me all that much.

I am far more interested in black cats in England, as the biggest wild animal we have is probably the Rat or something. So to have reports of a big cat running wild here is alot more interesting. I remember reading the story of an attack no more than 7 or 8 miles from my house a couple of years back, where the guy had huge claw marks across his face!

After thought I will watch the whole video, and try to understand this mystery more. Thanks for the OP

tO



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by BlitzKrieger
 


I was probubly 25 y.o. when this happened, and that was 25 years ago. This happened in southern California.
I spent a few hours, last night, checking sites on mountain lions and jaguars. A normal size for a mountain lion's foot print is four inches. A jaguar will have around a five inch foot print. So, the ones that I found from this "panther" was actually bigger, at at least six inches. Also, the print will be slightly wider than it is long.
I did find a story from someone on Snopes, about a panther print that was six and a half inches wide.
Here is part of his story:


Also, our land is on the edges of a swamp that is more than 1 square mile. No humans inhabit the swamp's interior, and there is a large herd of deer that take refuge there because neither we nor our neighbors hunt. I don't find it hard to believe that a big cat could, if released into the swamp, survive by preying on the local deer population. Of course, I'm not an expert on big cats, so I could be wrong.

209.85.165.104...:hh3byuTFY1gJ:msgboard.snopes.com/message/ultimatebb.php%3F/ubb/get_topic/f/24/t/001119.html+jaguar+paw+print+size +tracks&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=26&gl=us&lr=lang_en



So, until I can actually talk to the inlaws and gather more data, I'm left with the following as facts on the animal:
1) It was black.
2) It was a feline.
3) It's height at its shoulder was the same as a large German Shepherd (I'll estimate 3' high at the shoulder, maybe 3.5')
4) It left a pawprint the size of a 6'3" beefy human's hand (seriously, the man's hand can completely cover my entire face, and my face isn't exactly small). So, 5" to 7" (I don't know if it was the width of the FIL's hand, or the length - yet another reason I need to talk to him)





[edit on 10-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 10-1-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by TheOmen
 


Yea I could see how in England a black mountain lion would be amazing

I guess it isn't as amazing here since we already got mountain lions and such but I am usually pretty interested in big animals, they are always interesting especially these rare ones.



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