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Calling all UFO Experiencers...

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posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


I'm sorry to be rather snide about my reply in advance.

Thats said, Mr. Richard: Blah blah, friggin blah. (Mods, you can send me a warn for that, I'll take the hit...but I cant keep quiet with this.)

If you choose to swallow the nonsense thats totally up to you. Not one confirmed implant, not one confirmed anything. Scars? Ever think past scars being a surgical procedure?

Think past what everyone says, and throws out. These things exist on the edge of perception, and can effect perception to a very large degree. I think thats fair to say...established. If they want to send a tangible yet inconclusive to an end sign that they are "real"...then your surgical marks are nothing but that....marks. Marks made to send a clear message -

"we are real, we can do this to you and there's nothing you can do about it".

Another fear tactic by the enigma. Thats one of multiple issues, as you know there's a lot more.

You can talk all the alien baby crap and "slaves for gold" nonsense you want. There ain't an ounce of proof for it, when there should be if it's what you claim. Thats all about selling books. Anyone truly experiencing the enigma knows how subjective and inexplicably weird it is, and how it goes FAR deeper then the sci-fi garbage of past best sellers.

For anyone reading this, I'll not respond to this crap again because acknowledging it means it actually has merit. One thing I can tell you for sure after 20+ plus years in research and a lifetime (up until 10 years ago or so) of experiences is this: anyone claiming to have all the answers is full of it. We just dont know enough, not only about the enigma, but our own feeble perceptions and the nature of reality.

All that said, people can believe whatever they want, and are of course free to say it. But, I will continue to call out unsubstantiated crap when I see it. This is all far too important not to, and I'm sure you folks can agree with that.

EDIT: Just to add one thing, I don't want anyone getting the impression I think I'm 100% right. I'm as in the dark as most, and I certainly don't think any theory I have is right and everyone else is wrong. I just want to cut thru the B.S. we've endured for years now, and try and get people to approach this from a different angle that might yield results (because so far, we've not had any). I just wanted to clarify that before any misconceptions happened.





[edit on 11-1-2008 by jritzmann]




posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by jritzmann
 

Well said my friend,

When somebody claims to 'know' the answers and claims them as an 'indisputable truth', the alarm bells should always start ringing !!! The truth is, at this moment in time ... none of us have the answers ... you only have to read the posts on this thread to see the diversity in the subject.

As you say, everyone has the right to believe whatever they wish ... and share with anyone who has an interest BUT ...

(Note to anyone new to these things) ...

Never accept anyones word as truth ... however determined they are to present it as such. We can only form an opinion on the things we have experienced firsthand ... and even then we should question ourselves ... NONE OF US KNOWS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH YET ... especially the 'experiencers' !!!

Threads like this are great ... because they allow us all to compare and share experiences. There are some here that are very different to my own ... but it doesn't mean I think they are any the less real than my own.

Somebody mentioned in an earlier thread that we probably draw the attention of those aliens that are compatible with our own vibration ... I believe that.

For those who have had bad experiences I think there could be 2 reasons;

1/ The 'experiencer' may simply be scared by the 'unknown' factor and misread the intentions of the alien involved.

2/ The 'experiencer' has attracted a more aggressive alien because of the energy frequency they send-out themselves.

Like attracts like (IMHO). Woody.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
I'm sorry to be rather snide about my reply in advance.

Thats said, Mr. Richard: Blah blah, friggin blah. (Mods, you can send me a warn for that, I'll take the hit...but I cant keep quiet with this.)

At most, you probably just gave the mods a giggle.


Originally posted by jritzmann
If you choose to swallow the nonsense thats totally up to you. Not one confirmed implant, not one confirmed anything. Scars? Ever think past scars being a surgical procedure?

You need to do more research


There have been confirmed implants, some have actually died from abduction-related radiation sickness (like Barney Hill for example), and there is other evidence to consider. It is not my job to lead you by the nose to every shred of evidence, but to occasionally point the way if I so desire.


Originally posted by jritzmann
Think past what everyone says, and throws out. These things exist on the edge of perception, and can effect perception to a very large degree. I think thats fair to say...established. If they want to send a tangible yet inconclusive to an end sign that they are "real"...then your surgical marks are nothing but that....marks. Marks made to send a clear message -

If what you state is true, that it is simply a matter of changing one's perception, then I think a celebration is in order.

That is, AFTER YOUR CHANGED PERCEPTION HAS AMENDED ALL RETICULAN ABDUCTION CASES ON AND AROUND THIS PLANET.



Originally posted by jritzmann
You can talk all the alien baby crap and "slaves for gold" nonsense you want. There ain't an ounce of proof for it, when there should be if it's what you claim. Thats all about selling books. Anyone truly experiencing the enigma knows how subjective and inexplicably weird it is, and how it goes FAR deeper then the sci-fi garbage of past best sellers.

If you want proof, join the National Security Agency or the Central Intelligence Agency. This is a Net forum. There is no proof in here. If you think you'll find it in posts, you are sadly mistaken.

Fortunately, we all have brains and there are even some of us who have developed critical thinking ability.


Originally posted by jritzmann
For anyone reading this, I'll not respond to this crap again because acknowledging it means it actually has merit. One thing I can tell you for sure after 20+ plus years in research and a lifetime (up until 10 years ago or so) of experiences is this: anyone claiming to have all the answers is full of it. We just dont know enough, not only about the enigma, but our own feeble perceptions and the nature of reality.

I'll pour the first glass of Asti Spumante if your CHANGED PERCEPTIONS ENDS ALL THE RETICULAN ABDUCTIONS.

If it were all that easy, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion.




posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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You´ve attracted a lot of intelligent posts Beamish. As not to repeat what others have said, here´s another take on your original post.

Its not like you have to put your life on hold until you spot a UFO. Go after some interesting stuff/projects/hobbies that you CAN see while letting go of the UFO-issue for awhile. They may just appear while you forgot to look for them.

The very neediness of some type of occurence outside of your current realm of influence seems counter-productive to the enjoyment of everyday life. It almost seems like you want to substitute boredom with a close encounter of the fourth kind.

After you´ve forgotten about the whole subject for a few months and have dedicated yourself to other pleasures and pursuits...return to the subject with fresh enthusiasm and without the neediness. Think of it this way: "They" are already there, you are just not noticing them.

By deeply holding the attitude of taking their existence for GRANTED, as something normal and even mundane, I have an above-average amount of sightings of strange things and manouvres in the sky. Only when I start seeing it as something weird, far-out, something that must first be "attained" and "achieved" and "called", the events dissappear.

On a side-note: I no longer believe that the many ETs inhabiting our lively universe are really that relevant to our current life on earth. We came to earth to be on earth and not somewhere out there.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
There have been confirmed implants, some have actually died from abduction-related radiation sickness (like Barney Hill for example), and there is other evidence to consider. It is not my job to lead you by the nose to every shred of evidence, but to occasionally point the way if I so desire.


Barney Hill died from a cerebral hemorrhage, which says to me you'll believe anything you hear, and spout it as factual data. Thats the single biggest issue with UFOlogy today.

There have been no confirmed implants, and if there had been we'd know especially on this forum. What has been found is DNA frags, glass with capillary erosion, foreign bodies that are explainable, and a lot of claims about others that never seem to make the public view. (wonder why) No conclusive "alien" matter, or devices. Sorry. However, claims galore.

Aside from that, the rest of your posts sounds much as I described...so since you know it all for fact, I'll not argue with the deluded. You can argue round 'robin with yourself for days. I think more then a few of us would like to spend time discussing more then sci-fi and bloated claims.



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
Barney Hill died from a cerebral hemorrhage

If you truly researched that case, you would know that Barney Hill succumbed to severe radiation illness immediately after the Zetan-Grey abduction. This led to his death.

Like I stated, if it is all a matter of CHANGED PERCEPTION, as you claim, THEN WHY ISN'T YOUR CHANGED PERCEPTION STOPPING RETICULAN ABDUCTIONS?



Or are your perceptions really that irrelevant after all?


[edit on 11-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 11 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Barney Hill died from a cerebral hemorrhage

If you truly researched that case, you would know that Barney Hill succumbed to severe radiation illness immediately after the Zetan-Grey abduction. This led to his death.


That lasted 8 years huh? We better start research into Hill's DNA if he could withstand such severe radiation poisoning as you claim and live almost a decade. Sorry, a brain hemorrhage isn't radiation illness as you claimed. (big surprise) Please dont preach to me about research...sir...when you've spouted the crap you have here.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Like I stated, if it is all a matter of CHANGED PERCEPTION, as you claim, THEN WHY ISN'T YOUR CHANGED PERCEPTION STOPPING RETICULAN ABDUCTIONS?



Or are your perceptions really that irrelevant after all?



Go ahead and marginalize it, it shows how very little you actually know as opposed to what you want so desperately to believe. Since coming to several realizations, I have no more experiences. So it ended by my awareness of the mechanics of what was going on in particular with me and who "they" might be. Considering they ceased from that day and havent come back in any detrimental way in my life, I'd say I might have been at least close.

However I don't claim to have all the answers as you obviously do, despite that. I still don't know who they were 100%. However you severely underestimate their existence as simple spacemen. Thats a joke.

Your consistent postulations as fact about recticulans are irrelevant to me. No matter how many times you say it true, doesn't make it so.

Believe whatever you like, I really dont care...thats your business. When you start putting "answers" out to people when you have no more a clue then anyone else, thats where you make it my business too.



[edit on 11-1-2008 by jritzmann]



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
If you truly researched that case, you would know that Barney Hill succumbed to severe radiation illness immediately after the Zetan-Grey abduction. This led to his death.


Originally posted by jritzmann
That lasted 8 years huh?

There are cancer and AIDS victims that have also lasted that long. Yes, I stand by what I stated: severe radiation sickness was a contributing factor to his eventual death. Absolutely.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
...are your perceptions really that irrelevant after all?



Originally posted by jritzmann
Go ahead and marginalize it, it shows how very little you actually know as opposed to what you want so desperately to believe.

That I stand by what most ufologists espouse?

That there are physical aliens who kidnap people for self-serving reasons - which many researchers like Budd Hopkins, Dr. David Jacobs, and many abductees have said for years - versus your fantasy that if one alters one's perceptions one can avoid an alien abduction entirely?


You apparently haven't counseled or known any abductees, as I have.

You have the earmarks of a disinformation agent and I will be happy to just hang out in this thread just to counter every time you espouse your fantasy and delusions and try to get people to believe in them.


It also makes for a good laugh.




[edit on 12-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 


Hi Paul_Richard,

Just a simple question really,

I'm curious as to why you feel the need to kill a thread that has (up until now), been extremely insightful and informative ... everyone has been courteous and respectful of one anothers experiences and beliefs ... whatever their personal views ?

(take a quick look at my signature) !!! It's a lesson that might serve you well in the future methinks.

Now it would seem that (in your opinion), one persons beliefs (your's), should be force-fed to anyone who has already contributed ... or would like to contribute. You have made your point and stated your case ... but don't chastize anyone who thinks differently to you. Hey ! You might be absolutely right ... but there's also a chance you could be wrong. Who knows ... all any of us have at the moment are 'opinions'.

It is fine to have any opinion you choose ... but at least allow other people to form their own, istead of getting high-rate and rude if someone doesn't agree with you.

Read through all the posts on this thread ... you will soon see how grown-up people can be ... even when they have different beliefs.

Please don't let petty, dogmatic argument spoil a damn good conversation ... where everyone participating has the chance to maybe learn something new.

Woody



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by woodwytch
Hi Paul_Richard,

Just a simple question really,

I'm curious as to why you feel the need to kill a thread that has (up until now), been extremely insightful and informative ... everyone has been courteous and respectful of one anothers experiences and beliefs ... whatever their personal views ?

Woody,

Let's try to be fair and balanced here. I was responding to the insults of someone else who was not only attacking me but who was applying the middle finger to anyone who has ever been a victim of alien abduction, by demeaning the whole experience to only being a problem with perception.

Yeah...right.


Like the US Army soldier who was reported missing and then three days later his dissected corpse was found in the field where he was last seen. The manner in which he was dissected led one to believe that the aliens kept him alive for as long as possible.


No one is going to tell me that the soldier suffered from a problem with perception. There were physical aliens who committed a heinous physical crime in murdering him in a horrible manner.

This reminds me of a related issue that is also damaging. The idea that all abductions are predestined and that they, the abductees, actually planned before birth on being used as laboratory animals.

No soul who is sane would strive to plan to be abducted by hostile space aliens.

When I see damaging and distorted ideas like that being circulated, I strive to state my opinion. If I am attacked in that capacity, I will state it even more strongly


Hardly the conditions of "killing" a thread and largely a service to many who have been victimized by Reticulan elements.

My compassion for those who may not be able to adequately defend themselves prompts me to chime in. If that illumination causes a thread to end, which I doubt, then it is right for it to do so.

DENY IGNORANCE & MANIPULATION

[edit on 12-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 08:18 AM
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reply to post by Paul_Richard
 

Hi again Paul_Richard,

Just to clarify, I was not critisizing your points ... just the manner in which they were put.

I personally believe there are many different types of alien that contact us (for whatever purpose). I have been lucky enough to have had a very positive experience ... and I can't even begin to imagine what terror must ensue if/when encountered by the type you describe. It sounds truly horrific I put an idea forward in a previous post for a potential reason for why some people have a good experience whilst others have the reverse (don't know if you read it). Ultimately, we can only go on the things we experience ourselves and accept the probability for other senario's.

The point I was trying to make is that getting 'heated' on any thread tends to put people off contributing ... said thread dies ... valuable input may never be posted.

I've seen it happen many times.

As frustrating as it is (and I do recognize this), it is always best to adopt a calm persona ... people are more inclined to listen to the points being made ... in a good atmosphere points are more likely to be compared ... considered ... even accepted.

If you and jritzmann have a real grudge to bear and it has to be aired ... u2u it ... and just keep the thread for the topic at hand is all I'm saying.


Woody



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by woodwytch
 


woodwytch, when I read your posts I invision the thought of such a calm person and gentle soul and I start to think that I can actually hear your voice, strange from your posts.
You have found your calling and I hope some day when I can get all the demons of real life out of my life and start using the power of positive energy, then I to will be able to find my path into the light, maybe we will meet on the other side, thanks for your soothing & calming words, you ring true to me,
gwhint



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Wood-
Save your fingers ma'am. He's clearly taken a stance that the rest of the community has taken which has gotten us NOWHERE. Not only has he misconstrued what I'm even saying (altering perceptions to avoid encounters??? Where the hell he got that I have no idea-so called "aliens" I've said seem to be able to alter our perceptions many times...maybe that where he gets it.), but is stating as fact several items for which there is no more evidence (some none) then any other theory.

I "give the middle finger" and demean the experience? Paul, I *am* an experiencer. Please wake the hell up before you post this kind of crap.

Force fed is a good term for his demeanor. He's been force fed so it's all he knows to do.

Exploring other areas, or even those that might seemingly have little to do with "aliens" could get possible results. Progress comes from doing things in unpredictable ways sometimes.

Or, we can all swim in the same muck UFOlogy has been in for the past 60 or so years (and the one he's chosen to latch on to) that has gotten us...lets see, nowhere as far as understanding the enigma any better.

Whats amazing to me, is that there are experiencers like me, who were seriously fearful at one time to talk about the subtle areas of our perceptions during experiences... in large part because it simply doesn't fit the laid down "spacemen" theories. The very one's people like this continue to promote.

I have spoken to large crowds at lectures about this very issue, done radio about it, and written about it here for years. The only people who attack the alternate ideas are those so deeply married to the one they've promoted themselves.

For them, it's too late to back out and consider anything else.

My best bud David Biedny has a quote for people like this:
"Don't confuse me with facts, my mind's made up".

Richards would claim I haven't "talked to as many abductees" as he has. In fact, we have no idea who or how many he's spoken with, nor if those experiencers were getting their recall from the highly fallible regression hypnotherapy.

My only rebuttal to his marginalization of me is that I've dealt with this all my life personally. To my knowledge he has not. I started one of the first experiencer support groups in the country, and as one of the longer standing UFO chat hosts on AOL, started the first experiencer support group online within AOL's "Parascope". I have spoken to literally hundreds of people both in person and online claiming the experience. I've also done extensive photo-analysis work for major cases such as Mexico City and Pine Bush NY, Gulf Breeze and the O'Hare airport case.

I detailed a lot of my experiences right here at ATS, and on the Paracast show, and Vaeni's Culture of Contact cast.

Biedny and I have both taken it upon ourselves to critically question the experience, and especially those who claim to know whats going on. We've long been trying to get people to examine different possibilities, rather then relive the trash of the past. This is all in large part due to the stagnation of UFO research. Until we leave unfounded nonsense in the dirt, no one is ever going to move forward in understanding this.

The other problem is no one wants to move out of UFO research to examine anything else. Here's a shocker...move out of this topic and you'll see commonalities to other paranormal events non related to UFOs. Would aliens from Zeta or anywhere else do this?

People are so worried about what happened during an experience, what size the burned circle in the yard is the craft left, "look at my scar", how tall were "they"....etc. How about the way if effects the individual? How have they been changed? What is their outlook now versus before the experience (or realization of experience)?

This is a huge untapped area. People have focused on the enigma for so long we're forgetting the obvious effects, that can be studied long term.

Thats where I went. When you get past what experiencers tell the media, and ask about the truly bizarre nature and inexplicable weird aspects....thats where you learn interesting things.

And it's that this is far deeper then it seems, and far more complex then we can imagine. Still we need to try and understand whats going on, or at least make the diligent effort.

The ones married to their own long spewed theories as "fact", do not like this, as it threatens their belief system. As far as I'm concerned they're no better then the Meier cult.

I don't want to "believe" a damned thing. I want to know.

I think we're all mostly past the "is it real" question. I know for myself that it's real...can I concretely prove that to all of you? No. I can only be honest in what I convey thats happened to me. I have always done that, and have spoken about my experiences to such a degree that I've probably ruined a lot of my professional career (luckily I'm an artists and people think we're all crazy anyway...or the crazier ya are the more talented you are).

But I've put it on the line because I feel very strongly that it's important. Important enough to try and make some sort of difference. I dont know if I'm doing that yet or not, but I'm trying.

Of course Mr. Richard tips his hand with the ever so common comeback: I'm a disinformation agent.
If I had a dollar.....

Thank you sir, for tipping your hand in that direction, and revealing the absurdity I've encountered so often in the UFO community. It truly reveals the personality and mindset of those who go that direction.

The ignored members list gets one more (hell 3 aint bad). I'm better off not responding to his nonsense and derailing the thread, and I apologize to Beamish if I've already sent it over the edge.

Beamish-I'd be interested where ya are with all this so far.

Have a good weekend everyone.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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reply to post by gwhint
 


Hi gwhint,

That's really kind of you to say and I thank-you ... but trust me I can get just as angry as the next person ... my voice is not always calm and soothing (when the need arises).


I am (and always have been), a very placid person ... and it does take a lot to rile me. I found it interesting that you say, 'you hope to achieve such an inner-peace when you have rid yourself of your demons'.
Well, it might help you to know that I feel it is 'because' of the demons (internal & external), that have played a part in my life ... that have made me the woman I am.


Seriously, if you've read some of my earlier posts on this thread you will see that I've had more than the average amount of 'poop' land on my head and drip off my nose (hmm! nice image) ... and it would have been very easy to wallow in self-pity or become bitter and twisted on many occasions ... but where's the fun in that ? I'm a glass half-full kinda gal!

IMHO, everything that happens in a person's life ... whether self-inflicted ... perpetrated by others ... act of God/force of nature (whichever you prefer), provides us with a potential learning curve. Obviously when we're doggy-paddling in the 'poo-pit' we don't see that potential but believe me it's there ... waiting patiently on the bank, waving at us with a smile on it's face ... just waiting for us to notice it

So don't wait for the demons to flee (you'll spend a lifetime waiting for the impossible), review past events ... don't berate yourself for mistakes you might have made ... just promise yourself not to repeat the same mistakes.

Fact is everyone has inevitable tragedy/trauma in their life at some point ... so don't try to fight it ... roll with it ... let it run it's course ... and when it's passed (and it always does ... if you don't feed it), brush yourself down and think ... 'right, what can I take from that to make me stronger.

Wear your scars with pride ... always let the real you shine through ... and above all never, ever lose your sense of humour.

It works for me anyway ! Woody


Now please excuse me ... I must go and straighten my halo.



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 01:53 PM
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Hi beamish
This is a great thread . I live in Belfast and have been seeing Ufos for the past five years or so mostly during the day. I have lost count somewhere between 100/150 so far.My last sighting was two nights ago a single white light circling in a wide arc with some back tracking 'growing in magnitude from a barely visible speck to about five times brighter than Mars is at the moment. Based on past experience I should have a daytime sighting within the next week or so.
Over the years I have identified a certain pattern to their movements.If you open google earth and draw an X with the intersection about four miles due north of Belfast ,northwest to southeast and northeast to southwest. thats where I see about 70 percent of them. They usually travel in a straight line and at a constant speed They appear to take the form of a sphere when using the "crossroads" although they loose their spherical shape when they slow down or stop. I have also noticed they have a certain amount of control over their appearance.Having said all that they are never quite the same each time I see them.I would like to give you a better description of them when they are not in their spherical form but they defy description.Have you ever tried to imagine a five dimensional space ,its a bit like that.The point I am trying to make is, in my experience seeing them will not help answer any questions Five years on and I still do not know who,where, when or why. It can be frustrating I don not know if I will ever get an answer to those four simple questions and if I do it will probably be something like "42"

I never tried to see UFOs I just looked up one day and they were there The experience has changed my outlook on life I am now aware of two realities both valid and real , yet one denies the other exists while the other refuses to declare its presence openly.While the status quo persists I can trust neither the governments nor the ETs ,did I mention how frustrating it can be?
my message to both would be call back when you get your act together ^^

comharc



posted on Jan, 12 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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jritzmann,

The aliens are physically based. They are not just a matter of perception. And they must be dealt with physically, not just through meditation, perception, etc.

DEAL WITH IT.

If you have not yet learned that from being an "experiencer," as you claim (which I am a little dubious of), then you will have it repeatedly stated in here. In the very least, with the intention on my part that others who are also experiencers or probable abductees know what the score is beforehand - while you strive to distort the whole perspective on the situation.

Moreover, I have yet to see ANYTHING that puts you in a light that is beyond or even on a par with people like US Army Retired Sergeant Clifford Stone, Donna Higbee (CHT), Dr. David M. Jacobs, and Budd Hopkins. Why should we take what you say to be more insightful than what they and others have been concluding from their many years of analysis, experience, and/or research?

Because you are one of thousands, if not millions of experiencers?

That alone is simply not enough to go with.


Abductee manipulation, i.e., brainwashing, is an ongoing phenomenon, and if you are truly not a willful disinformation agent and simply are whacked in your perceptions and conclusions, then I suggest that you may be one of the many who were brainwashed by the Reticulans


Perhaps then even serving in the capacity of an unknowing disinformation agent...like Al Bielek.

Woody,

Thank you for your post.

I noted what you stated.


[edit on 12-1-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 02:10 AM
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Against my better judgement-and I mean it, I'm done after this with this fellow.


Originally posted by Paul_Richard
jritzmann,

The aliens are physically based. They are not just a matter of perception. And they must be dealt with physically, not just through meditation, perception, etc.

DEAL WITH IT.


Again, stating things as factual when you have no basis to do so. Youre irresponsible at best, and unstable at worst. I haven't got time to deal with this sort of mindset, because youre simply living in your own world where you have all the answers.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
If you have not yet learned that from being an "experiencer," as you claim (which I am a little dubious of), then you will have it repeatedly stated in here. In the very least, with the intention on my part that others who are also experiencers or probable abductees know what the score is beforehand - while you strive to distort the whole perspective on the situation.


Dubious? Let me put it as simply as possible: There are no words in the English language to tell you how little I care about what you believe, or think is dubious.

You are so horribly locked in to your beliefs you view anyone trying to look in other directions as dangerous and shadowy "agents". You know what I think? I think you're a stone cold lunatic. Thats what I think. I think youre ridiculously dangerous because you're a large part of the problem: one who's so sure he's got answers when he has positively squat, and spouts and presents his theories as factual data.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Moreover, I have yet to see ANYTHING that puts you in a light that is beyond or even on a par with people like US Army Retired Sergeant Clifford Stone, Donna Higbee (CHT), Dr. David M. Jacobs, and Budd Hopkins. Why should we take what you say to be more insightful than what they and others have been concluding from their many years of analysis, experience, and/or research?


I didnt realize it was a contest of popularity. Hell I only had this crap in my life since I was 4-5 yrs old, and have talked about it publicly for years at great personal and professional risk for not so much as a thin dime....so WTF do I know right? More insightful? I dunno about more insightful, although it might be, but how about another perspective? How about that all those folk's theories haven't gotten us any more evidence, nor progress in the field, nor gotten us any further in the study? Your "heros" have sold a lot of books, and given a lot of lectures.

Please note that none of the responses have mentioned regression therapy and it's high fallibility, nor the cultural contamination widespread during Hopkins and Jacob's research....again, don't confuse him with facts, his mind's made up.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Abductee manipulation, i.e., brainwashing, is an ongoing phenomenon, and if you are truly not a willful disinformation agent and simply are whacked in your perceptions and conclusions, then I suggest that you may be one of the many who were brainwashed by the Reticulans


Perhaps then even serving in the capacity of an unknowing disinformation agent...like Al Bielek.


Now I see, I'm "whacked". I'll tell you what wacked is for me:

A guy who claims to *know* what "they" are and why they are here.

A guy who claims all sorts of "factual" nonsense, in a thread where a man is trying to witness manifestations of the enigma. Spouting his theories as fact, he could potentially put the OP in a bad position, by misinforming him. (Although I'm sure the OP has more sense.)

A guy who when called on such crap, points the "disinformation agent" finger as his best defense.

A guy who has such a stranglehold on his beliefs he refuses to acknowledge that he has no real answers and is just as in the dark as the rest of us. Why? He's too married to his UFO Hero's theories...as factual data.

Thats someone "whacked". Sir.

What else is "whacked", is me sitting here responding to this garbage.

anyway...

Jacobs and Hopkins present theories. And there's nothing wrong with that, and they aren't bad people. Whats bad? When lunatics spread said theories as fact, to the uninformed. Therefore this mentality propagates.

And that my friends, is a large part of whats wrong with UFO research, and the public's perception of it. Wonder why mainstream science doesn't get involved? There it is.

Paul, if you want to continue this you can email me at:
jeff.ritzmann *AT* gmail.com

I will not respond in this thread again to you, as it's disruptive to the questions and train of thought by Beamish, and it's counterproductive to continue. We'll let folks decide if they want to ask questions, and consider alternatives or believe those who claim to have all the answers.

Apologies to all for the disruption.



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Originally posted by jritzmann
I only had this crap in my life since I was 4-5 yrs old, and have talked about it publicly for years at great personal and professional risk for not so much as a thin dime...

Maybe you should not talk about it publicly so much then.


I don't get paid for my efforts either.

Shall I play my violin for you?


You imply that you have had reoccurring abductions since you were a toddler. Well, that would explain your mindset.

You should really review the abductee brainwashing site , as I am even more convinced now that you had the royal treatment by the Reticulans


Thanks for the confirmation.



Originally posted by jritzmann
I will not respond in this thread again to you, as it's disruptive to the questions and train of thought by Beamish, and it's counterproductive to continue. We'll let folks decide if they want to ask questions, and consider alternatives or believe those who claim to have all the answers.

I don't claim to have all the answers. But I do claim that the aliens are flesh and blood beings. Granted, their blood is different than ours.

Furthermore, I doubt that you EGO - possibly even your BANK STATEMENT (if you understand my meaning) - would allow you to not continue this discourse.

Surprise me.

I like surprises.


As long as there are people like you to distort the Reticulan abduction phenomenon, there will always be people like me to counter it in open forums like this one.

Promise.


DENY IGNORANCE & MANIPULATION



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 10:50 AM
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Hey Beamish whats going on in your great thread so many of us have enjoyed, please can I recommend IMHO that Jeff & Paul need to have a debate or put on the celebraty boxing gloves and go for it.
cheers, gwhint



posted on Jan, 13 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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I find as somebody who has had first hand experience that I have to reply to this topic. Too be quite frank, if I saw myself through somebody else's eyes, I would probably think that I was 'a few sarnies short of a picnic'. Nevertheless, the fact remains that I like so many others have had some kind of interaction with other beings.

Aside from that, it does help when people who are professional and credible step up to the plate with their evidence that is hard to debunk that those of us with our evidence and plethora of experience find great comfort in, as they prove our validity to the world and ourselves.

When people are close-minded on the matter and then encounter something beyond their comprehension that sets them on a roller coaster between what they know to be reality and what they actually experienced, whilst trying to define it in terms that makes more sense to them.

I am so glad that somebody has taken the time to format this topic for intelligent discussion and not derision. It is great to see this discussed from an angle that we can all get involved in without deriding another person.



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