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SWAT officers invade home, take 11 year old at gunpoint.

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posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:53 AM
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I have tried over the last 24 hours to try and confirm if this story is true. Other than a couple of websites that do an exact quote from the WorldNUTDaily and even link back to the story on WND. there is nothing to back this story up.
I am going to have to give this story the same credence that I give most WND stories. none!
This story was aimed to get people riled up and it looks like it has at least if you go by most of the comments on this thread.
If you want to take anything that WND writes as truth that is your prerogative.
I have always take anything that WND says, as well as Prada, with a larger grain of salt until I can find another news site that can truely substantiate the story and not just parrot what WND and Pradas says.




posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:08 PM
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I called the number listed for Mr. Lenoiak and got a voice recording.
I'll keep trying and maybe we can get their side of the story...
maybe.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:19 PM
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"The Valley News" out of New Castle, Colorado, ran this story on their front page. The following link should hopefully take you to their website.

www.postindependent.com...



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
reply to post by kenshiro2012
 


www.postindependent.com...


Thank you kindly!
Now for the finishing touches on this whole fiasco.
Everyone on this thread seems to be harping on that it was a rabid paramedic and police who abused thier power by breaking down the door and stealing this kid to get him medical attention. What everyone here seems to have missed....
Here are two quotes from the article

Friday morning, caseworkers from the Garfield County Department of Social Services arrived. Shiflett allowed them to look at Jon briefly but refused to allow them to take his son for treatment or medical evaluation.


and

Community relations sheriff's deputy Tanny McGinnis said two deputies were first sent to notify Shiflett of a court order for his son's medical treatment and that Shiflett did not comply.


So in other words. CPS had looked into the case and beleive there was a need to seek help for this child.
The father openly challenged the CPS workers telling them to bring an army.
Then the father refuses to comply with the Court order, thus necessitating the police bringing in the SWAT team.
Wow, this story takes one heck of a turn once all the FACTS come out, facts that were not in the WND article.
Sorry folks, if the cops had not done what they did and the child had died... you would be harping on how they did not do due diligence on protecting the child.
Now that they did.... you are condemning them.
Good catch 22.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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Apologies to Thisguyrightthere, in the above post, I didn't see your
post until after I had posted...sorry



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by kenshiro2012
Sorry folks, if the cops had not done what they did and the child had died... you would be harping on how they did not do due diligence on protecting the child.
Now that they did.... you are condemning them.
Good catch 22.


I can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't be condemning them. Personally I would have rather the child bled out and died at home than be removed by the government and had his life saved.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:28 PM
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Thanks for posting that link, didnt say anything about him being a constitutionalist, but they didnt talk to the sheriff either. Iam sure after WND posted their story the sheriff was probably bombarded with phone calls. Amen to that thisguyrighthere.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by gunner36]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 




I can't speak for anyone else but I wouldn't be condemning them. Personally I would have rather the child bled out and died at home than be removed by the government and had his life saved.


That is one of the ODDEST things I have ever read.
You would rather the child suffer and die, then be taken to get medical treatment and live?



Children are brought up in brutally abusive homes all the time...and if it weren't for others (CPS/Cops/Doctors, etc) intervening....those children probably would have died a very painful death at the hands of horrible parents.


Im just besides myself on your mentality regarding innocent children.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Judging by these maniacal policemen, my parents would be rotting away in jail right now. I climbed trees, played sports, built ramps for our bikes... definitely getting enough childhood injuries to say I had an awesome childhood. You get a bump, you brush it off, you keep going.

When it was something serious, of course I would go to the hospital, but if I would hit my head, my mom would say "well, I guess we're going to have to bring you in to the Emergency Room." Which was nothing more than a joke we would both laugh about.

This society is getting really creepy when we start freaking out over bumps and bruises that children get. As far as being taken into an emergency room and going in for a CT...


The child would have hit triage, been given a $70 Tylenol, been given something to laugh about by an RN, maybe a sticker, and sent on their way.

Thank goodness during my childhood there wasn't this ridiculous "baby got a bruise let's operate" mentality going on.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:37 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


I was in mid-sentence when I decided to keep my mouth shut. I have to agree with your determination though. I am convinced this person probably does not have a child, as that is not any kind of rational thinking for a parent.

Anyway, I figured there had to be more to this then what was originally told to us. It just seems way to 1 sided. I believe the ego's of numerous people were probably taken more into account then the health and well-being of the child. That in itself is a real shame. Keep digging you diggers!



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


That's freedom. The goofy "freedom isn't free" slogan doesn't mean we suffer the periodic war or that we should be glad to serve on a jury or welcome the rape of taxation. It means that with real liberty some people will do horrible things like beat their kids or shoot up a church. But in that same liberty any one of us can walk up to that guy beating his kids and do what we have to do to save the kids. It means any one of us seeing some psycho pull a rifle and aim it at some grandma looking for fresh eggs in the market can put him down.

Every time a government agency local, state or federal interferes with the lives of the people for better or worse we are all less free.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by niteboy82
 


I do agree with you. However, I think these workers have a very fine line they have to follow.

I am always worried that my daughter's normal bumps and lots of bruises are going to be seen by someone as abuse. She is very active and is ALWAYS jumping off of things and getting bruises. I dont even spank as a parent. Never have, never will. But, all it would take is that one woman at the store to make a call and me get a visit.

However, w/ that said. There really are abuse cases and our workers need to be able to investigate to ensure the saftey of "those" kids. My former neighbors are one case I can quickly think of off the top of my head.

Fine line indeed.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by greeneyedleo]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by greeneyedleo
 


Oh no doubt they do, I just wonder how fine of a line we are going to end up walking at the expense of good parents like yourself?

You have an active, healthy child, that gets some bumps, why in the world should you have to even remotely think about getting called in for potential abuse? How dare whatever power that be make it to where the idea even threatens your quality/reputation as a parent when you aren't doing anything wrong?

There are a lot of abused children out there, and trust me I feel more for that than most people can realize, however I would not have wanted my personal freedom from that as a child to infringe on other kids lives who actually had good parents.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by niteboy82

How dare whatever power that be make it to where the idea even threatens your quality/reputation as a parent when you aren't doing anything wrong?



It is not okay to accept this as a fact of life, a part of modern day American reality, just as surely as it is not okay to expect to see small children working is sweatshops. There is a middle ground of responsible parenting which involves freedom of religion and beliefs in raising your own child.

The fact that we are willing to accept this is a sort of Stockholm Syndrome, colluding with our captors, and it is rampant in health care and child rearing.

I work with and do births quite a bit for these types of families. I have done lots of homebirths in trailers. tepees, bale houses, crazy recycled glass houses, log cabins, not to mention all the condos, suburban McMansions, and inner city apartments. I have daily intimate contact with people who are homeschooling their kids on a bible based curriculum, and though it is not what I would choose these kids are solid well grounded, physically active and polite.

These families, and I professionally, live under the constant pressure of one wrong move and Child Protective Services will be called in. As a health care practitioner I can tell you first hand that we are not just dealing with Constitutional issues being trampled, but also a blatant disregard for Evidence Based Practice with Litigation Based Practice the rule of the day, along with and power and control from the top down. I am very familiar with the nature of vicarious liability concerns and our system is built on that premise at this point.

And I mean come on, the fact that CPS went out and made an evaluation, please! Field workers for CPS are generally young women fresh out of college who's world view is pretty limited (this because it is a crappy job and burnout is high and that is where the put the news to break them in). Put a 22 year old sorority girl in the path of a rough Bible quoting mountain man who is all about his constitutional rights, and well, what do you thing the outcome will be? He falls outside of typical parenting style, so he must be a bad father.

P.

[edit on 1/8/2008 by Paloma]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by Solliz
 


Did this REALLY happen?



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by MuseInPink

Did this REALLY happen?


Even if it didn't, acts like this happen all the time.

Scholarly article on court ordered cesarian sections


National Advocates for Pregnant women Not following your doctors orders could land you in legal trouble.


And remember this incident about four years ago?
A woman with known psychiatric problems was charged with murder for refusing a section and loosing one of her twins. The case was dropped because she pleaded out to child endangerment because she was taking illegal drugs. This was largely due to the pressure that women's and human rights groups put on the judge.

Then you have the whole debate over the right of parents or teenagers to refuse chemo.

This is a teenager's refusal and the ensuing case

This is a UK case where it appears the parents are not being pressured to continue treatment because they have been doing chemo for six years. However a physician makes it very clear that Britain does not allow for refusal for care across the board.

There is a lot of information out there on this, however I looked for references that were verifiable and in the mainstream for those of you who think that this might be fabricated.

As well, in my own personal experience, it does only takes a phone call, literally, to get Child Protective Services at your door. So if you do not vaccinate, are nursing a toddler, have a family bed, or choose to have a homebirth or unassisted birth in some states, any of that can absolutely be used as fodder against in a family in a call to CPS. And all of these practices are logical, non harmful, and demonstrated to be safe and beneficial parenting practices, although outside of our norm.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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In the end, the injury wasn't as severe as caseworkers from the Garfield County Department of Social Services thought when they went before a judge seeking a search warrant and order for medical treatment.




The doctor recommended fluids, Tylenol and ice to treat the bruises, according to a copy of Jon's patient aftercare instructions.


man...they shoulda put him in the ICU!!!



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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reply to post by zerotime
 


You linked to a quote by some author that makes up a number that has no relation to reality: HUNDREDS of thousands of kids do NOT die every year from bumping their heads. The writer of that article gives NO proof of that figure. In the USA less than 100k people die in traffic deaths, and they far outrank kids dying from head injuries..maybe a few thousand a year, total, for all of North America. thats it. Grossly inflated numbers that are picked out of thin air by some ' author ' on a site that publishes anything anyone sends in can hardly be called a good source.

The point is that the parents were right, and nop one should have second guessed them because ' maybe ' might occur at some point in the future. that is a crappy reason to haul people in and ruin their lives. the cops were wrong, the judge was wrong, and you are wrong if you think that the neighbors ( whom I would drag over the coals for calling the cop's) or some ambulance driver knows better than the parents.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 04:36 PM
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Keep the NHIN (National Health Intelligence Network) on your radar people.

That's what will make sure you get vaccinated if you live in the states.




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