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SWAT officers invade home, take 11 year old at gunpoint.

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posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime

Originally posted by RogerT


Every year hundreds of thousands of American children die from head wounds that they have received in car accidents and falls, or from gun shots or being shaken, struck or thrown. No fewer than 1,000,000 are head-injured each year. Traumatic Brain Injury is called The Silent Epidemic because so many cases go undetected



That explains much to me. As a kid and growing up I hit my head ALOT. Can they reverse 35 years of damage?

As to the kid - despicable action by the police.




posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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The father was fully capable of dertimining wether or not the child needed to go to the hospital. Its a sad fact of life, that no one gets out of life alive, even kids sometimes. If taking the kid to the hospital could have cost the family their home, or to be able to pay for food, it's a tough decision that needs to be made. And the father was well within his rights to make that decision.

It's true, there was a chance that the kid might have a more serious problem. But the father knew he could not afford the hospital bill. If someone is so concerned about children's health "in this day and age" then perhaps they should be out there doing something to make sure poor people get free health care. A lot of kids die because they are negelected entirely. At least this kid had a father to keep an eye on him.

On top of all that, here's this family getting attacked by the SWAT team because the kids are home-schooled by a Constitutionalist, and then I find this...


KINGSTON - Kingston school Superintendent Gerard Gretzinger will meet with the city police department and the high school administration to go over possible security improvements that can be made following the rape of a 15-year-old student, for which five other students have been charged.

High School Rape

[edit on 1/7/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 01:05 AM
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just to point out :

being a christian confers no medical training or skills , nor does being a consitutionalist

so just what were the fathers qualifications to make a diagnosis ?

and " because i dont want to pay the bill " does not make brain swelling or bleeding stop out of symaphy

just for the counterpoint - what would people think if the child had developed complications ??



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
just to point out :

so just what were the fathers qualifications to make a diagnosis ?


All parents are qualified to make a diagnosis. It comes with the responsibility of being a parent and having the right to determine the health care needs of your child.

This is one of the most dangerous slippery slope issues that we face in our country today, and I am not being hyperbolic.

This is about a newborn that was taken from it's mother
because she declined the newborn metabolic screen for religious reasons.

It is unfortunate that I have a fair number of links to stories like these.

This belief that parents are not capable of assessing their children's health and well being, nor their own, combined with the elevation of the cult of experts is also responsible for the needless Caesarian epidemic of over 33% of all births that the US now faces.

It not only violates parental rights of determination, but traumatizes children when the state is seen as the superior parent and children are remove from their parents. This right here is the quite conspiracy that is happening everyday.

Pardon my Robust Passion, but protecting the rights of children and families in this particular arena is my day job.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by ignorant_ape
 





...so just what were the fathers qualifications to make a diagnosis ?


The father was an Army Medic in Vietnam.



and " because i dont want to pay the bill " does not make brain swelling or bleeding stop out of symaphy


Not wanting to pay the bill and not being able to pay the bill are two different things. There were no outward signs of trauma, and therefore no swelling or bleeding most likely. Of course the father could have paid thousands of dollars to be absolutely certain. But then again maybe he should have all of his children put in hospitals for months on end to undergo batteries of tests to be sure they have no dread diseases that have not yet begun to display outward symptoms.



...what would people think if the child had developed complications ??


They would've friggin' lynched the poor guy.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Paloma
 


As I stated earlier, the sad truth is that children can die just like anyone else. It is also a hard fact of life that some children will be born to parents that do not have the same skills and resources to rear their young, as other children may benefit from. This is called natural selection.

Is a parent being neglectful when thay cannot provide the very best medical care that mony can buy? If that is the case, then only the top 3% of Americans should be having children, because they are the only ones who can afford premiere cutting edge medical care.

Paloma is right.

[edit on 1/8/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 03:15 AM
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I love my country and most of its inhabitants. Can even find good and hope in people I don't agree with. But, to tell you the truth, I hate, and I don't use that word easily, our government.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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People come on kids have been hitting there heads for years and it sounds like the father and mother kept a close eye on him an really it is none of the states business..

It is funny though you know in most states it is optional to go to the hospital but in IL for sure if the paramedics are called you have no choice you are required to go to the hospital this is one of the many reasons that I hated living in Illinois if there is a state in the Union that will turn to nanny state first it will probably be Illinois right after California..

Another thing I don't have kids but I tend to believe that no one knows a child like a caring parent and a caring parent would know if something was wrong pretty quickly..

Respectfully
GEO

[edit on 1/8/2008 by geocom]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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When I heard this I had this gross nauseous feeling like I lived with through the Reno years.

Government always knows best. Question it and get your family broken up by "social workers" (we have yet to see the full extent of their use in America's destruction) or the heavily-armed-at-your-expense-while-they-continue-to-restrict-your-ability-to-arm-and-defend-yourself taxing entity kicks in your front door and kills you.

They do the same thing if miss $20 in your annual tithing to the new god government.

Yeah, we need more of this. Vote big government!



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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I understand everyones concerns.

I too had vital information for the police only to be ignored and brushed off. I went so far as to make a letter to all the counselors, news and the police chief. I live in Toronto.

Sorry for taking this off track.. slightly..

network.nationalpost.com...

This link will provide additional backing proving that it's not so much just the US who are turning into a police state.. but any western government. There is no Democracy.. only select few who wield power which suits their own agendas and needs.

We are heading into some dire times... good luck to us all....



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
The father was fully capable of dertimining wether or not the child needed to go to the hospital. Its a sad fact of life, that no one gets out of life alive, even kids sometimes. If taking the kid to the hospital could have cost the family their home, or to be able to pay for food, it's a tough decision that needs to be made. And the father was well within his rights to make that decision.



I wasn't going to comment but this needs to be addressed. While I fully understand the concern over self rights as free people jackinthebox you are dead wrong. No one without being able to do a CT scan can determine if this child had severe brain trauma or not. When you fall there is always a "whip effect" your body hits first and the head hits like when you crack the whip and bounces very hard.

The speed of the head hitting the ground can be extremely high and in the case of pavement the sudden stop is instant. The brain keeps going and is traumatized. You can do every field test imaginable but without proper E.R. equipment the only thing you can go by is the method of injury.

In this case the child really did need a CT scan. Thankfully he was fine. Sending SWAT is an over-reaction. As EMS personnel you cannot force someone to take care of themselves and that should be a personal choice. The problem is this father was caring for someone that cannot make an informed decision (being a minor) and EMS (that NEVER that I have heard of before) makes the decision to get a judge involved.

To me this means the method of injury is such that the child really needed a CT scan. The father was NOT doing a very good job as a caretaker, his child hit his head on the cement and he needed to move heaven and earth to make sure his child was not in danger.











[edit on 8-1-2008 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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So basically, to sum it all up, The Sheriff ordered the assualt, because the father believed in the Constitution????

This story just pours fuel on the fire of the failing Health industry's LACK OF COMPASSION and the Communist Social Services, (yes, that is a communist organization) abuse of power. And thats not saying what the Cops did wrong, I wont even go into that, but I feel a rather large reaming should be in order.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


I'm not sure how many ER's you've been too... or perhaps you work at one - in which case, I want to know which one so I can go to that hospital should anything ever happen to me. From my ER experiences, a boy hitting his head on the ground on an even remotely busy evening will get the treatment of a flashlight to the eyes to check for dilation and responsiveness, a few questions and then the boy sitting in the bed for a few hours with a nurse checking whenever they have a moment. If, after a couple hours the kid still looks fine, they release him. Unless there's a darned good reason to suspect something more, a CT will not be ordered.

There's plenty about this article that's upsetting, but there are a few things that catch my attention as well. Albeit, these are all just judgments of character from me that could mean nothing, but I think it's something worth noting.

The article makes Mr. Shiflett seem like Mr. Joe Average American Hero... but I don't think that's the case.

***
10 children, 6 of which are at home... in a mobile home. The father is a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and the family "members live by faith and homeschool". After the incident, the parents made sure little Johnny "was able to recite Bible verses and correctly spell words".
***

Digest that for a moment. Now, I realize I'm baiting quite a few people (likely mostly religious), but I'm fairly certain a lot you see my point.

The gov's reaction was completely ridiculous, unwarranted, and likely illegal - and I'd trust a Vietnam army medic to recognize signs of head trauma... but I'm thinking Mr. Shiflett might not be captain America. "L'il Timmy hit his head! Quick make sure he remembers chapter 3, verse 2 of Leviticus! If he doesn't know that he's a gonner for sure!". Any person so eager to name drop their god gives me the heeby jeebies.

Again, this is all speculation and I'm basing a character judgment on a few lines in a non-so-trustworthy news source, so, maybe I'm wrong.

edit for spelling and grammar

[edit on 8-1-2008 by memoir]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by memoir
 


Whether they check the kids by asking him if he remembers bible verses, the pledge of allegiance, lyrics to yellow submarine or the starters for the Titans it doesn't matter. You ask him something he's supposed to know.

There's nothing wrong with homeschooling either. More families (if there any left) should do it.

It makes more sense now the reaction by the gov. People like this are what it needs to eradicate. Just like the tribals in the Middle East to be rounded up and killed for globalism to succeed the independent in the U.S. need to be rounded up or killed for the USA's part in global governance to work. It's all in Quigleys book, Tragedy and Hope. The damn thing is prophecy.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by memoir
reply to post by LoneGunMan
 


I'm not sure how many ER's you've been too... or perhaps you work at one - in which case, I want to know which one so I can go to that hospital should anything ever happen to me. From my ER experiences, a boy hitting his head on the ground on an even remotely busy evening will get the treatment of a flashlight to the eyes to check for dilation and responsiveness, a few questions and then the boy sitting in the bed for a few hours with a nurse checking whenever they have a moment.


No I do not work at a hospital, I work in the field. Of course a CT scan is not ordered for every head injury but if the incident's method of injury is such and the EMS person in the field reports that the child was struck by a car ( I do not care how fast its going the mass of the car is enough to cause the head to be seriously injured when it hits the pavement) and in this case they are going to order a CT scan.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 09:55 AM
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Anger- Shock- disaproval- fear of the same treatment -vulnerability- and slowly the acceptance of this type of treatment lest it happen to you and your family...

Its how change is made in masse.

From every corner of the globe things like this are happening to good people.

This is change. This is how they raise the bar, and in a few years from now it will become the accepted norm...

NWO and its claim to our freedoms dont come like lightning, it comes like a subtle wind, the winds of change.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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I am SOOOOOOOOOOOO F'ING SICK OF THIS!!!!!
I'm afraid that the time has come where only an armed and violent revolution will restore any semblance of real law and order.

How much longer can we as a nation sit idly by and watch as our politicians and our law enforcement and or judicial officers break the law, violate the Constitution and trample on the inalienable rights of people!?!? HOW MUCH LONGER PEOPLE!?!?
Someone please tell me!?

Edit to add:




The sheriff said the decision to use SWAT team force was justified because the father was a "self-proclaimed constitutionalist" and had made threats and "comments" over the years.


I think that about sums it up! The PIG sheriff saw the use of excessive force justifiable because someone had the audacity to cite the Constitution. See that sheeple - our lawmen are now using the one document that desigbned to ensure our freedoms as the justifiable cause in denying those same freedoms. WAR TO THE PIGS, WAR TO THE POLITICIANS!!! I'm PISSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


[edit on 8-1-2008 by kozmo]



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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This is kind of trivial, but I would like to point this out because it has been bothering me since yesterday.

"served with paramedics in Vietnam"

My guess is, everyone served with paramedics in Vietnam. This does not say he was a paramedic in Vietnam. Did this really not get anyone else's attention? As far as I know Paramedics is not a branch of the Military. So he would have served with the Army ( or whoever), and was around Paramedics while in Vietnam. That is what I get from that statement.

So maybe this should not be an arguing point?



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by forestlady
 


I also find it fairly interesting that "Tom Shiflett" also comes up as a person who fought in the Revolutionary War. I know, really reaching here. Even though I belive that this government has destroyed what this country was founded on I always want to make sure that a story is legit first.

If it is true then we are a bit further on than I had hoped. If it is true then it is simply another attempt to try and get people used to the fact that it is okay for the government to be in your private lives.



posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:40 AM
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No it shouldnt be an arguing point, if he helped paramedics in nam or not doesnt really hold any argument imo. What just makes me fighting mad and makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck is the fact that this man wasnt allowed to make a decision on the care of his child. As someone else pointed out, a parent knows their children, if something is wrong with their child they are going to know it. There are some parents out there that dont pay attention to their kids, there are unfortunately some children that get the short end of the stick, and die from lack of care from crappy parents. But good god that doesnt give this sheriff, the magistrate, and CPS the right to run roughshot over this mans rights as a parent. For the sheriff to say he was a constitutionalist and that he made threats, but that he couldnt site any specifics on the threats for justification for using a swat team is just disguisting. So now a constitutionalist has become a bad thing like the media made militias and survivalists out to be. Ugh, it just makes me fighting mad it really does, if it is true I still havent seen anything else on it, but with the way things have been going, I think there is more truth then fiction in the story.

When do we as a country stop putting up with crap? I was discussing this with my wife last night, she works in the justice system and the stories she tells me of the corruption is just damn sickening. The judge she works with rules on his opinion instead of facts presented. Why does he do that? Because his opinion goes along with rulings that bring more federal, state and local money into his greedy f ing pocket. That man needs to be run out on a rail, when he rules based on opinion when he tells his magistrates to rule based on what a probation officer recomends. That is a breeding ground for corruption, I think good god if this is happening at a local level in a small town, what is happening at the federal, and state level. I just get so mad, it needs to stop.

We were discussing this story, and she told me, you know if someone at our childs school saw a mark on our child and called CPS. They could take her without informing us before they took her. That would be it, I would go to prison, I would storm CPS and I would get my child back by whatever means necessary. How do they have that much damn authority to rip our kids away from us? Any parent here knows kids fall down, kids get bruises, they broke bones, that is what happens. So now in this world when they fall, when they hurt themselves some organazation is called because you as a parent are the first suspect as cause of injury. I used to hurt myself all the time, I would fall down, hit my head, etc etc. You know what my parents response was when they knew it wasnt serious? Just rub it son, it will be fine, walk it off. I am sorry I am frigging ranting and probably not making much sense, it just hits close to home for me I guess. I love my kid more then anything in the world, I would lay my life down for her, I would do anything for her. But at the stroke of some Bureaucrats pen she could be stolen from me for some BS thing like this, because I am a constitutionalist, and it scares the holy living crap out of me.



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