What is the point of this forum? And suggestions for a change.

The Time Travel Institute handled this in the post-Titor heyday by having types of forum based on the nature of the posts irrespective of topic- short stories by members, prediction threads (to prove you are a time traveller), hard science quoting mainstream sources and frequented by people with science degrees instead of degrees in baloney, and then "experiencer" forums where delusionals and shamans can share their non-physical or non-verifiable experiences.

The only slight danger is that every few years mainstream science's lest sensible but unfortunately most high profile high priests (cf Atiyah's views on science as religion) reverse their views on fundamental physics and chemistry. IE what is considered definitely true in science or what is possible and impossible is unreliable at best. As Arthur C. Clarke said,

"When an expert says something is possible, he may be right. When he says something is impossible he is almost certainly wrong."

I too am trained in the sciences, so I understand where you are coming from. However, the "subjective" is perhaps, as important in the long run because it allows for expansion of the exploration domain. One can not collect data, or learn how to measure what it is that is trying to be measured before the very idea of the possibility is made available in the first place. In other words, if nobody shared their stories or experiences, would a researcher even bother to look. All of our current understanding (rows and rows of professional & scientific journal articles for decades in our libraries) started with someone first asking what, who, where, how, and/or why etc... I'm of the opinion that we need these stories as much as people need to share them.

I''m a fairly new poster and member. My nephew turned me onto this. We share the same ideas about NWO and the need to own guns and ammo to protect our families and to provide food. Meanwhile, I see no need for a change. It's just fine with me.

In my view, we have several different ways of dealing with things in this forum, and it should be viewed as such:

UFOlogy studies are two sided - There are the news-threads, where recent sightings/footage/pictures are brought up and discussed. Often correlated with old cases and such. These are the good ones in my opinion. And then we have the "junk" brought up by people who believe in anything they see on the Internet. Blurry photos of christmas decorations, clearly CGIs and such. They usually get forgotten pretty quickly.

Cryptozology studies are one of the best forums here IMHO. Loads of different cases are brought up, and they are often dealt with (More than most other sub-forum cases) in a scientific POW, and end up at a standstill or as a clear debunk. There aren't the extreme "hatred" we see in some forums - Especially UFOlogy and Skunkworks.

Skunkworks... Yes... For me, thats the realm of reptillians and their believers who can see a shapeshifter in a compressed video of a houseplant. I don't venture there anymore.

Science and space exploration forums are okay, unfortunately we don't see so much action in there. The good news-threads are a bit far apart, and the audience in there are 50/50 - Some that know what they speak of, and some that like science mumbo jumbo and act after that.

Medical forums are like the science and space exploration forums, although with quite more people that should stay in skunkworks IMO.

I can't speak on the political sub forums, but it is my belief that they are usually pretty good, although with a bit too much ignorance at some points.

My point of all this, is that the sub-forums should be kept as seperate places, and that they each have their own seperate "goal".

Note: All this is purely my own opinion, after going through these sub-forums for several years.

Fraank Fontaine, what you ask for is for someone to decide what proof is not enough proof and put the stories in the "Stories with no proof" forum

I am against that, I do not care if someone says "I have been to the Moon", and no proof, I will make up my own mind about that, do not need anybody to screen the story before me

Let the forum be like a real gathering of people, they gathered somewhere to talk and there is no supervisor to say :"hey I do not believe you, go to the other room and talk to yourself"
Let people talk and listen to whatever they want



[edit on 8-1-2008 by pai mei]

The forum title is Aliens and UFO's.

I would think that this is where most people would put there experiences with Aliens and talk about there ships.

It seems to me that people that have experiences should be good enough proof for most of you but since most are in denial and closed minded this forum has become very very sad.

I take it as an insult when you write experiences off as speculative. People are trying to come forward and they are insulted.

The problem I have is yes, why is Sleeper allowed to stay here in this forum but the rest of us kicked out and put in skunk works. I like Sleeper but this isn't right.

I also think you should not have put three abovetopsecret threads in your first post, it seems you are belittling these people and I think this is disrespectful.

It amazes me that this particular forum is a mess but yet the one top forum that makes this place interesting.

We can be placed on the back burner better yet not talk to you about any of this because I know it is not appreciated to this date.

Maybe this forum is useless after all every picture is faked and every experience a joke.

I know I am disappointed, I thought ATS would become a great thing with all the experiencers here but the Amigo's have let a good thing slip through there fingers.

Denial is closed minded and the last I want to write is the day will come yes, it will come that everyone one of you will wished you had paid attention to the experiencers right here because it is going to be them that saves your butts when the time comes, no doubt about it..... and the time is coming

[edit on 8-1-2008 by observe50]

reply to post by Fraank Fontaine


You first say that the Third category you described are things we aren't able to provide proof of. Then a few sentences later you demand proof for that same categorie. What's up doc?

[edit on 8/1/08 by enigmania]

reply to post by Fraank Fontaine


what is the point of this forum?------above top secret/deny ignorence-----perfect names for here---we want to know the secrets that are being kept/hidden/denied or that we just plain well never thought of on our own----ignorence is not bliss---if there's a better way of doing things that are going to save me/us from extra pain that i/we dont need--why would i want to continue alone staggering around like a blind man in a mine field when someone comes along to offer me a guiding hand?

Hi Frank,

I read your post for suggestions for change .

I think Aliens and UFos should be seperated into one UFO Skeptics and the Alien part as its own board for people to post Alien encounter stories and news .

As a fairly new person here I have found that any prsentation on Spiritual Ets is replied to by it belongs in Skunk Works .

I think that needs to be changed aswell the name it self automatically does not allow for people to see things seriously in that board.

Maybe even two seperate boards one for non skeptics and one for skeptics and even debunkers.

So everyone would be happy.

Currently when one looks at the board title Aliens and Ufos you would think its an open message board for all kinds of Et and Ufo stories etc.

Its not really,because if a few people complain the moderator takes the ops message and puts them in that shunk works area.

I feel Spiritual Et and Spaceships should be a new message board for those that have had positive contactee experiences and also positive Spaceship encounters .

I would bet there are many who do not share here that information for risk of being attacked by the few are more vocal then the many who are not.

Thats my 2 cents .

Thanks for your post .

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Cmdraleon]

Just another note that came to mind why does ATS move things when a few people complain ?

Do they have more power then the rest of the members of this site?

How are people to make up there own minds if you throw things out of the Alien Ufo message board because a very few and it seems always the same people say it belongs in skunk works but not here.

Who are they to decide what belongs anywhere?.

What are they afraid of that people reading peoples Et stories that they share might believe them and we can't have tha now can we .

We still don't know if the Ufos exist no less the Aliens right?

Well if we call this Aliens and Ufos then let all experiences be posted here and do away with skunk works period.

The other option is to create a Alien Ufo experiences Message board where all who have had both can share without ridicule.

I hope the ATS Owners are reading this and taking notes .


[edit on 8-1-2008 by Cmdraleon]

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Cmdraleon]

reply to post by Thain Esh Kelch


Ahem... Space Exploration is not a dead zone. Actually taking the time to read and understand the material may slow down the pace as compared to arguing over a You Tube video of a shapeshifting newscasters features in a 90 second post. But many of our threads are surprisingly fast moving, generating a lot of indepth study of space related phenomenon. And I dare say that you will find that the majority of threads in Space Exploration contain more links to better regarded sites, than just about any forum active on ATS.

Yes, we do get some threads that are borderline Skunkworks material, and the stray poster that is not well grounded in reality. So do universities in the real world. We deal with finding the rational and logical and scientific answer to what they bring to the table.

Stop by and read through the threads posted on in any two or three day period, and I think you will find that your generalization was just a bit over the top.

Once there is proof of alien existence, the alien & UFO channel of this board can be removed, because it will be discussed everywhere all over the world.

The kind of scientific proof you are looking for is being covered up, and the only way to fight it is to get more people asking questions.

Thats why this site exists in my opinion. You will get a lot of circumstantial evidence, but there will never be something that cannot be explained away by the powers that be. Never.

People are like sheep. The follow whoever has the highest credibility, which makes it very easy for credible sources who have the power to hide things to do so and get away with it.


[edit on 8-1-2008 by Copernicus]

This will be too esoteric and deep for some, but bears mentioning in light of the question. I mean if you are seriously approaching the questions core.

Human awareness and communication is not linear or even understandable from a static rational description.

The greatest discoveries happen outside the lines of thought regimented by logic and our pedantic pre-intelligent species understanding.

What many call random, or unorganized is actually a structure we are just beginning to understand.

Pragmatism is an artificial application our awareness has adapted to survive within this universe where our awareness has not yet developed enough. Like training wheels.

If we could see, truly, we would see all the structures and connections of this dimension of existence point to oneness and we would be able to navigate intelligently without contrived structures of what we believe is logical, rational etc.

Our desire to organize/structuralize is a natural reaction to uncertainty, but if you let go a bit and get comfortable with the true infinite potential of what we call reality, you will get insight into your own and our true natures. Creative awareness is what we need, and uncertainty allows leaps of understanding unattainable in a linear logical path. (I have many historical examples)

ATS spans many subject areas. In truth they are all connected. Even the false or ingenuous and deliberate falsifications asking for attention. All are part of our species intercommunication. To refuse to deal with them will only deny their education of why that does not actually work, (for whatever emotional, intellectual reasons they are contrived).

We have the chance here to not only educate each other and help ourselves understand greater concepts, but to gain a sense of the true potentials we have inherent in ourselves. This cannot happen in a purely intellectualized and over structuralized vacuum.

An analogy is how when we over process foods and then through that process take out the balance of nutrients that make the food nourishing in the first place. Another is how we have weakened our immune systems by too clean and bacterial free environments. Too many antibiotics will not only kill us, but allow resistance to become greater in biotic's we fear.

I know this is over the top in what many might think a response should be here, and I am infamous for this, but I for one are tired of Fortune Cookie or greeting card answers.

Not much time left to get it together. Serious answers need be discussed to our seemingly simple questions.

A scaled answer for those unwilling to delve deeper than a one line response is..

Our diverse and unique co-members are where great things can be discovered.

2 million eyes are better than one, and one eye has access to all here.

ZG

I tried gaining momentum on this topic in the thread below...
www.abovetopsecret.com...'


We need to band together and discuss in person all the ideas put forth on ATS and these meetings will not be centered around who is right or wrong but focused on the greater good.

It is up to a certain few to change the course of history and its places like ATS that these people come together to share ideas. Well.....ATS needs to take a stand and organize worldwide ATS forums where we can all go to to discuss change and real world applications of all of our ideologies.

Ok, I must be tired...some of these posts are getting too long, so I will be brief.

I agree that it can get frustrating weeding through all of those threads that appear to be impossible to prove, (ie, alien abduction/reptiles, etc.), and I mean no disrespect.

However, I do not believe that my desire to know the truth about, let's say, moon structures or NASA cover-ups is any more worthy of a thread than someone wanting to share their abduction story.

We must pick and choose.

Originally posted by NGC2736
Stop by and read through the threads posted on in any two or three day period, and I think you will find that your generalization was just a bit over the top.

I will, thanks for the heads up! I might have dvindled too low based on a tendency in some specific threads.. :/

Oh well Frank.

It was worth a try.

Looks like we are doomed to have to filter through daily abduction stories that have no corroboration.

Another one popped up today, but this time we've got someone posting on behalf of the abductee.

sigh...