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What is the point of this forum? And suggestions for a change.

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posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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I have been a long time reader of ATS, but due to a lack of time in my life, a short time poster, however after a few weeks posting, one this is puzzling me...

What is this forum *actually* for?

Yes, I have read the descriptions, the forum guidelines and the official info. But for me at least, this forum has become infuriating.

I realise that we are all here for the same thing... we want proof. Proof that there is 'something' out there. Proof that Aliens and UFOs do exist. Even the most skeptical people and the 'blind faith' believers, as well as the snake oil salesman and hoaxers... all the same thing.

The way I see it, we come here to see the evidence. See pictures, hear other people experiences, and hopefully find some kind of 'proof' somehow. In reality, this is one of the most powerful resources that we have at our disposal!

Imagine an investigation team with *millions* of members, all after the same goal, all after the truth. That is more than the Police forces, FBI, CIA you name it put together. It may be possible to accomplish anything!

So why, oh why are we faced with the dilemma we face in this forum?

The dilemma of 'Blind Faith', the dilemma of 'Healthy Skepticism' being treated with hostility?

For me, threads in this forum can be split into 3 types...

1. The Blatant Hoaxes

These can be put up with for the greater good, and easily noticed by the forum population

2. The Genuinely Curious

Pics (be they of the moon, planets, UFOs in the sky), Videos, Eye witness accounts. All with something 'tangible' behind them.

3. The 'Out There' Posts

I am not saying they are true or not, but they relate to things which we have no way of proving either way. 'I was taken by Aliens to the Moon!' etc You know the ones.

It is this 3rd kind of thread that this post mainly related to.

I am an analytical person. I have been trained over many years to look for 'evidence', to search and investigate. To look at the normal first, and once that has been eliminated, only then look to the extremes.

Call it skepticism if you like, but it is not. It is just that I demand a higher standard of proof. If someone says to me 'I went to the Moon with the Grays', I want a good bit of evidence to prove it before I take it as truth. If the evidence is there, I am behind it 100%.

Posts such as these are prime examples:

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I propose that there be another forum for these kind of posts (Unexplainable Tales?)... away from the probe of people like me, where others can read and believe whatever they like, without having to rely on small things such as 'proof' and 'evidence'. I have nothing against them, but there is no scientific way to debate them, or look at them objectively, and as such, only cause in my opinion, animosity.

If you post your skepticism you are deemed a hostile 'non believer'. If you take it at face value, you are reading nothing more than fiction.

These threads just seem to cause disharmony and flame wars, and add nothing to a proper examination in to UFOs and how we can prove them real or not.

Peace,

FF




posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:33 PM
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For me, this forum is a useful central repository for UFO news, that which is reported in the media, upcoming events, etc. It's about the best one-stop-shop out there.

I have been put off posting some stories due to some people being irritated that I even did so, and by my feeling of an obligation to add to the stories my own opinions so that it is more than a simple link.

Beyond those issues... I'm here every day



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:43 PM
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I have always thought myself that it would be beneficial to have the forum split into threeish sub-forums .... debate/revealing of news items, first-hand accounts, and blatant skunk works-type speculation.

Again that would probably require a high level of moderating, and as most of the mods here do indeed have lives outside of ATS, I can see how it could get mucked up fairly quickly.

I have pretty much learned to scan this forum by thread title and can deftly avoid first-hand accounts with no proof if I so choose (and at times I actually enjoy reading them).

[edit on 1/7/2008 by Fiverz]



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Frank, why don't you go to the Business Forum here and request that a separate sub-forum be set up for UFO photographic analysis and UFO news stories ONLY.

I really do think you and a few others here would be much happier in a forum like that. This current forum sounds like it's too comprehensive for your taste.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by Palasheea
 


I guess for the same reasons, that you and others won't leave for skunkworks.



[edit]redundancy..darn

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Phil J. Fry]



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Purpose:

1. Monitoring the public for opinion and state of mind.

2. Deflecting and disinformation of rare information found on the internet.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by Fraank Fontaine
 


Isn't there a complaint department somewhere you can express this concern?

Why is this in the Aliens and UFO's forum?

I object to this type of post being put here.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:36 PM
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While I understand what your point is, it is for the different types of interests that ats has been founded in my opinion.

With this being the case there are myriads of threads that I avoid or have no interest in while there are others that some scoff and scorn that I absolutely love.

So as well intended as your thoughts are they just do not resonate with the basics.

Also they are doing a great job attending to the flame wars and the discourteous banter by some over heated and disagreeable topics. Give the Mods a nod when they send out reminders and that will be the best action to take by letting them know you support their thoughts and actions.

All in all I know you would still agree that this is the best and most diverse forum on the web.

Peace and see you around some of the topics that we both enjoy!


+7 more 
posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:42 PM
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Any of you all ever eat at a buffet? You know the place where you get a plate and some silverware and then it's all you can eat?

Did you ever eat it all? I mean every bit of every item? Made you sick, huh? So that's what you have here, and if you aren't mature enough to pick and choose, you're going to stuff your head the same way people stuff their face at a buffet. And then you'll start bellyaching about how it's the restaurants fault and they ought to hide some of the food.

But this site makes no claim to fat free content, or even well done, for that matter.This isn't a nanny site for those people that don't know how to pass right on over a reptile thread, or a planet X thread.

If you're sick, stop eating the things that disagree with your delicate constitution.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Enthralled Fan
 


Now seriously, i guess this thread is quite right in this forum, since it addresses a valid point in ufology as a whole. Just look at the example threads, the OP gave - debating about which alien race is superior, offering (sometimes) good science fiction as facts, blurry completely inconclusive pictures, videos, every somewhat famous person is a reptile shapeshifting alien. Some even use a complete nonsensical word of exopolitics.

Point is, after around 50(?) years of serious ufology, "we" haven't even got a single solid thread of proof for the EXISTENCE of any alien race. Sure, we got statistics, testimonies and blurry pictures - but that's it.
Believe is more important then knowledge for some of the members here, as long as the story is far out enough.

This is not very helpful to the topic, in my opinion, the community should speak with one voice to primarily establish the existence and maybe visits of alien race before anythign else. One step after another. As soon as this would be established as truth, we as the human race, could go further.
But this is not the case, instead we fight for our believes, just like religious bigots. Just take a look at the use of the word "sceptic" in this forum - most use it as a swearword, while they should appreciate any case "debunked" properly. If a case can be debunked ( and with the experts on things like photography and photoshop for example it WILL be debunked here ) it means that actually we've come one step closer to the truth.

Now, the problem is, that anyone here (and yes, this includes me) has to be open minded enough for a truth, that may not be, what he/she likes. Yes, the possibility that we haven't been visited by anything and there's an explanation for everything we've seen so far is still there, as much as i personally dislike this train of thought. As much is the possibility, that we've got an evil world shadow government, selling us as soylent green to some alien race. But if that would be the case - what would you do against it, as long as 70% percent (just a number to make my point clear, no actual fact) of the world thinks, we're nuts ?

Let's get to the truth, get it out, PROOF to the world, that alien life is a reality, then debate what to do with or against it.


[edit] typos...meh

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Phil J. Fry]



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Phil Fry

Are there any UFO cases out there that you believe are true?

Could you tell us which ones? Not that it's important that we know this but I'm just curious to find out which ones you think are the real McCoy... if any.

Please include links.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Palasheea
Phil Fry

Are there any UFO cases out there that you believe are true?

Could you tell us which ones? Not that it's important that we know this but I'm just curious to find out which ones you think are the real McCoy... if any.

Please include links.


Sorry to jump in, but have you checked out?

Dechmont Case

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Fraank Fontaine]

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Fraank Fontaine]



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Frank, the link is only showing an error page.
Could you fix that?
thanks



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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Hmm works for me in a few browsers, but the link is here


www. mysteriousbritain.co.uk/ufo's/dechmont.html

(Just take out the space, couldn't get it to format clearly)



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Fraank Fontaine
 


Well, your first mistake is assuming everyone is here for “PROOF”.

Your best bet is to start a “Proof of Aliens & UFOs” forum.

And just for the record I believe you will never find proof. And if you do you will have no need or desire to share it as well as understand why the general population will never have proof.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Phil J. Fry
 


Thanks for the reply, but really, this thread is a rant by someone who doesn't agree with the way this site is run.

It is telling the owners of this site how to run it, and I disagree with it.

It's up to each person to decide what they get value from in the way of threads here. Nobody is forcing anyone to read threads about blue alien pals, reptilian shapeshifters, or planet X.

50 years of serious research on the topic of UFO's and aliens not providing anything of real substance should tell you something right there. Nothing definative has ever been proven. So why should anyone take any of it seriously? I'll answer that one. It's because people are going to believe whatever they want to believe.

Just eliminating or moving threads because they are not able to be proven as fact, would mean the whole forum should be moved as well!

Don't you think that if anyone actually had any proof of any of this, it would be all over the news?

Maybe I have missed something that you know that the rest of the world doesn't?



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by Fraank Fontaine
Hmm works for me in a few browsers, but the link is here


www. mysteriousbritain.co.uk/ufo's/dechmont.html

(Just take out the space, couldn't get it to format clearly)


We were typing at the same time and by the time I posted my last post, you had already corrected that link.

Interesting story and will keep it in my files. This one is great because there's actually some proof that the witness was telling the truth i.e. marks on ground and torn pants.

No photo's though and even blurry ones are better than nothing but that event took place before cell-cams so that explains that...

But let's say this case didn't have the physical evidence in it and let's change the story and say that instead of seeing a UFO.. he see's 2 Greys who transport him to what looks like the inside of a UFO where they show him a map. So going the fact that MOST cases have no physical evidence available at all.. then we should at least consider that this man's story is true, as he knows it.

If it was the case that every UFO/Alien sighting out there also has some kind of physical evidence to support it, then in that case, if someone comes along and has the same experience but no physical evidence to back up his story, then it would be safe to say that he may be making the whole thing up.

But as we already know, the vast number of experiences, sightings and contacts have no physical proof at all where the only thing we can go by is simply evaluating the witness' character and so on and trust our instincts as to whether he's telling the truth or not.

When people come here to this forum.. all we have is their story. We don't see them and we don't know anything about them. So because of this, it's better to remain on the fence and not make any judgements if that member's story is true or not because we lack background information on who the witness is and what he's like.


[edit on 7-1-2008 by Palasheea]



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:39 PM
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Obviously some posters here have NOT had personal experience.

I am certain absolutely certain that many of the people that have found this site have come here to discover more to the puzzle. Why? Because they do not simply 'believe' they may not have video of themselves over morning coffee with aliens but they have had substantial experience that has lead them on a serious inquisition into the truth and to find some validation by others that share their experiences.

For those of you that have not had anything happen to show you different, I applaud your persistence in keeping an open mind in the face of lack of public information and absence of experience.

I LOVE this quest that I am on for the truth and am so appreciative for finding so many that are willing to at least listen when I feel the need to share and to allow me the respect to tell my piece of the puzzle without judgement.

You better believe that I have stories by the dozens untold, for years I was afraid the experiences would end if I talked, then I thought that it would jeopardize my family, and now with all that I have learned here and similar forums, I have the courage to admit that I am another of the millions coming forward to be heard.

In a couple of my threads, it does not take blind faith, but an open mind to at least listen to the evidence presented by ordinary people, not professionals or those wishing to make a deal, but normal average peoples experiences. And I have to say that the debunkers and skeptics have come through, yet it was always with respect for the posts. I have always welcomed a healthy dose of skepticism because without it we would never be as far into the field as we are now.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Fraank Fontaine
For me, threads in this forum can be split into 3 types...

1. The Blatant Hoaxes

These can be put up with for the greater good, and easily noticed by the forum population

2. The Genuinely Curious

Pics (be they of the moon, planets, UFOs in the sky), Videos, Eye witness accounts. All with something 'tangible' behind them.

3. The 'Out There' Posts

I am not saying they are true or not, but they relate to things which we have no way of proving either way. 'I was taken by Aliens to the Moon!' etc You know the ones.


In my view, there is a distinct fourth type of the thread on this forum which I tentatively call "science pr0n". It is characterized by

- bemoaning the sad state of "mainstream science", which is mainly due to various conspiracies but also because scientist are not open minded and governed by stale, erroneous concepts

- proclamation that a new, revolutionary theory XYZ has been identified, which explains most everything; it doesn't involve any math, typically, and relies on vivid imagination

- declares that any attempt to debunk XYZ for lack of evidence, predictive power or a comprehensive model is a vile attack by mainstream scientists

This model works amazingly well in a variety of topics, from John Lear's theory that Moon has substantial breathable atmosphere, to the theory that fusion energy is releaseded inside our Sun throughout its volume up to the surface, to postulating the existence of thriving life on Venus, to proclamations that the 9/11 planes could not have possible broken a truss or two inside the WTC because planes, you know, are made of aluminum.

To me, the motivations of people who engage in this are pretty clear... But it's sad that the forum is sinking in this morass.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Fraank Fontaine
 


I completely agree with you. I think threads like those and simmilar "I'm gonna preach you on aliens and what life is about cuz I'm holier then thou" should be removed from this forum. With all due respect to the authors.

When I think of it, it's not actually their fault but the moderators who are not doing them a favour by letting those threads grow into gigantic mess noone can really track anymore, just a bunch of thoughts piled up together.

As for the abduction stories, I don't give a damn about those. So many tales and noone, NOONE ever got any evidence to back their story. That's just screaming "Fake!".

In 80's you had UFO magazines where you could read such reports and be fascinated by them, but in these days of highly developed technology, cellphones, digital cameras size of a cigar box, people want PROOF, need more then just a word on paper. It's the way it is. If someone feels bad about this, well, tough luck. Deal with it.



[edit on 7-1-2008 by Breadfan]



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