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Why do people still believe in Religion?

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posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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I believe in God but..... I certainly don't believe that there is some white robed, bearded deity sitting up in a heaven on a big golden throne or whatever.

I believe, however, that there is "something". What that "something" might be is simply beyond my ability to comprehend. All that I know is that I "feel" like I am a part -- albeit a small part -- of something much bigger than myself.

I am connected to this planet, this solar system -- the cosmos. And when I die, my spirit, my soul, my energy (it doesn't matter what you call it) evolves or changes back into those primary elements to, once again, be yet another part or aspect of this reality.

Yeah.....I know, it's vague but everything to do with the unknown, by definition, can only be vague.

I believe that others might somehow believe much the same as I do. Some might build a framework of philosophy that is called religion to help them define their beliefs but, essentially, we all believe the same things. Why? because it is the human condition that we try to make sense of reality.




posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 04:18 AM
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I think that faith in a higher power is okay, whether it be in a God as defined by the major religions. I also think it is okay forNeo-Pagans to have their belief systems as well.Faith, of one sort or another, is, I believe, necessary for anyone to help get them through life. I know that faith can sometimes be carried to an extreme, as there have been, and still are, examples of that throughout humankinds history. But as a whole, most people can respects other people's faith enough not to force their own viewpoints down other peoples throats, even if you don't necessarily like what it is the believe in.
I do have my own set of beliefs, myself. And it is something of a mixed bag if I must say so myself. I am more of a Neo-Pagan, but do have some tenants of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam mixed in among my beliefs. But that is fine for me. I do not try to force it on anyone else. There is room on this planet for ALL faith systems. And I am all for living in peace with my fellow humankind.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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What if, just what if, we factor out the Anthropomorphic Principle here and factor in the possibility that Humans aren't the ultimate 'creation' of some unknown 'deity'??

A religion is created by humans...it is, before science, a beginning attempt to understand what is not intuitive. Even today, our 'intuition' impedes our logic and understanding. Who here does not know, now, what causes lightning? Well, imagine some thousands of years ago, experiencing this phenomenon...try to imagine what 'they' would have thought.

THAT, only one example, is how religion begins to develop...an attempt to explain, through 'faith' instead of science, something that defies every day experiences. It is built in, it is part of our imagination...the up side is, it gives us art and music and love...

(there is a darker side as well, which we all know about...unfortunately).



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 03:33 PM
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Some people have asked me if there is proof that God exists. Of course you have heard of such proof. The cosmological argument. Intelligent design. Shall I mention all the prophecies that have been fulfilled by many prophets up to this day, or is it too much unprovable mumbo jumbo? Btw, if anyone out there has at least a bit of interest in philosophy, I would suggest to check this: en.wikipedia.org...(philosophy)

Perhaps it would be very useful to ponder some of those questions. They offer a good starting point for the reflection of the existence of God.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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My first observation is the "Religion" and "True Religion" are not the same thing. Most of what passes as "religion" is known as job security. Just as what passes as federal government, banking, economics, education is job security. People fabricate and cling to the pretense of spiritual competency for lots of reasons. But a so called religion that has pedophiles in it's leadership ranks if obviously completely fake. Any so called religion that poisons it's facilities by allowing them to be used to spread hate or violence etc.. is Clearly fake. Caesar is god became the pop is god. The Jesuits stated to their leadership, a few years ago, that the Vatican had created Islam to facilitate the crusades, control, conquest, plunder. The Jesuits likely created the Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, just as they fabricated communism, Nazisms, etc..

True religion today has the following: a current living "Spiritual competent" leader with direct access to the Supreme Being and therefore all higher region. True spiritual practices by which the individual will realize the competence of this leader. True association (congregation) with the spiritual teacher by which they will also realize the competence of the leader and directly see for themselves, the working out of their true salvation. Not just feel good, be somebody, pretending. The mind is a terrible liar and 99% of people are not year ready to leave the worlds of lies and return home. So they will not now recognize or appreciate the truth. They doesn't mean that an individual that is fortunate enough to meet or know the true spiritual lead (who is, in effect the Supreme Being himself), is "special". Only the Supreme Being is special.

Fake leaders, substitute leaders such as priests, mulas, book learned leaders, philosophers, educators, or just books and writings are meaningless. Everything comes from the living teacher, always. The current of redemption comes to earth and manifests through the living teaching and by no other means. The true teacher has access to the Supreme being and not just some level(s) in between. They don't come to this cesspool for a vacation. One such teach, in the not to distant past, once said, coming to this world for the salvation of spirits was like reaching into a bucket of dung to retrieve maggots.

That said, the creation belongs to the Supreme Being and we don't have any business interfering with it. Those who follow what ever ignorance belong where they are so long as they are happy there. It serves a purpose as a place holder for them min their condition. The Supreme Being is all merciful.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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People belive in God for both the same reason kids believe in the tooth fairy, cause thats what they've been told and aren't willing to believe anything else. And why people smoke, they need it to get through the day.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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Just to end the thread you all talk so much bull on this forum do not slander other's religous beliefs if you have not yourself studied that religion, how do you know which religion is correct if you dont even know the basics of each, why do many people say negative things about muslims when themselves have not read the quaran if you dont read it( i bet it makes a good read ) then how can you judge it. all i can say is baa baa



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 05:56 PM
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A simple poll of Americans finds that the vast majority believe in some form of god. A better question is "how many people believe in a God/religion different from their parents"

I think that you'll find that all over the world people generally believe in what their parents taught them. Which is strange to think that out of all of the religions in the world your parents just happened to choose the right one.

If your parents brought you up believing in a certain religion is that a choice? Could a baptist child when they are ten ask their parents to make them a Catholic? I think not.

Parents are not going to exclude their children from their own religion simply to give them a choice to do something else. If you ask around, you'll find that the majority of children either don't adopt their parent's religion or do do adopt it, it is rare to find children that adopt a totally different religion.

My religion anyway is Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Have a look, its quite compelling:

www.venganza.org...



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 09:59 PM
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I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to ponder my question and give your two cents worth.

In General, I find that people believe what they are taught to believe, and anyone who discovers otherwise is discouraged in some way from being inspired enough to change peoples minds.

Then again, it's not very frequent that a large majority of the population allows themselves to be comfortable with doubt. This doesn't mean doubt in your religious experience, this means doubting that your rigid view on what it means is anything but mere speculation.

There were a few who posted in this manner on this thread. Some stated that they felt secure enough to proclaim a religion which provided meaning without having to believe in some objective absolute to justify their beliefs. This is true liberation.

Thanks again,
Quazga

[edit on 9-1-2008 by Quazga]

[edit on 9-1-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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This is a response to the first post in this thread.

Quazda- since you have explored several religions, and (I presume) have done a good deal of research, I assume you have also come across Pascal's Wager. The wager was that he'd rather believe in a God, and find out he was wrong, then not believe in a God and upon death find out there is.

Another point of interest- there are about 1 billion Christians/Catholics alone, not to mention Muslims, Hindu's, and all other deistic worshipers. If we assume that most of them are being utterly brainwashed that still leaves a sizable number of believers. Are all of them simply out to lunch, and have been convinced by culture or society that there is a higher power. As one person, how can you think to yourself that you have the key that everyone else has missed, and that there is no such thing as religion? Logically, if 99.9% of all religious people are brainwashed, stupid, or in some manner not intelligently having a genuine religious experience, that still leaves you outnumbered around 50 million to one. Do you honestly want to say that you are more knowing than all of them? That's moronic.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by MESSYSC
Just to end the thread you all talk so much bull on this forum do not slander other's religous beliefs if you have not yourself studied that religion, how do you know which religion is correct if you dont even know the basics of each, why do many people say negative things about muslims when themselves have not read the quaran if you dont read it( i bet it makes a good read ) then how can you judge it. all i can say is baa baa


Hate to say it but I agree. I've studied all major religions and none of them call for violence upon others. The 'holy scriptures' in all their forms mention war alot, because history is full of warfare.

The war-wrap that's put on religion is just another misdirection for people who have never studied religion. They think because dictators and nations have manipulated religion that religion is to blame.

Just read the actual scripts once in a while people... religion is philosophy. All the icky bad stuff we like to hate about religion is all on the surface, we have to look at the truths within.



posted on Jan, 9 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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The sad truth is that most are afraid not to believe because of what they are told happens if they do not submit to what is being told to them. Indoctrination is the most powerful tool in the weapons used against the human will. There IS a god, but not an ego-maniac as taught today. As for an omni-present god, it is the Universe itself. As for a creator of the human race, the Sumerians knew him as Enki and the Egyptians knew him as Ptah.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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I never make the statement that atheists are immoral. I was a moral atheist for many years. I just recognize the fact that without divine authority, an atheist has no logical basis for his or her morality.

How could they possibly do that while every single Apeist evilutionist I have ever read here uses this "clever" ploy to get people to question the legitimacy of GOD by asking questions as to why GOD allows so much evil in the world suggesting that GOD should be this way or that way or more to their way an all knowing all powerful, loving God "should" be.

YOU would assume you know well enough to understand in the first place. If you are asking this in an indirect way to accuse Christians of any wrong doing,, then again,, where the hell is your logical basis for morality?

My first thought is,, where do YOU get off making ANY judgements about it when you detest the very concept of God in the first place? What the hell would you know? You either believe that such ideas as Deity's exist or you don't! So if you do? Then you are not an atheist. IF your don't then you quit questioning the personality of god in the same sentence you deny exists to hear you. IT ISN'T REASONABLE AND IT ISN'T YOUR BUSINESS TO DO SO. Unless of course atheism is in its own way a religion or philosophy with an agenda?


Atheists are constantly making comparisons depicting the believer as stupid, while using contradictions they say are in the Bible, a book they obviously enjoy putting down but never once picked up to actually READ and UNDERSTAND.

I think it is attacks like that where the Atheists show NOT ONLY that they are totally ignorant but that THIS is the same kind of so called science superiors that are supposed to be so much smarter then Christians?? Atheists have GOT to be the biggest bunch of misguided minorities I have ever seen.

They are always whining about these so called injustices that WE Christians are imposing on them in some form of violation to the humanary and fundamental rights that are self evident but not given to them by their creator, a creator they disown. So why the hell should we allow atheist the right to use that document in a bastardized version of double standards where they use it in separation of church and state.


To hear how evil GOD is when THEY only believe in GOD when it suits them to insult the bad things he has done. The Church is part of the AFG to track Atheists in a letter to our church advocating some extreme measures to deliberately undermine this trend in threatening our religion as being the side effect of negative mutation.

You think I am kidding?

I wasn't going to mention this as anything serious until I started reading Sam Harris "worldview" and a world without religion

You're stupid enough to think atheists are treated like second-class citizens. Yet of course, you spend most of your day belittling Christians and other religious people.

You think that the words "Christian" and "sane" are mutually exclusive.
You think that no Christian can ever be a patriotic American, because he will always side with the enemies of truth.
You're proud of being completely free of prejudice, unlike the "typical sociopath Christian" yet you display all the prejudice I see in us. You address Christians as "liar","sheepherder", or "looney toon". You refer to Christian leaders as "fuehrer". "flat earther" "Faither"You think Focus On The Family is a "white supremacist hate cult". You think Satanists are Christians because they "worship a Christian god".

The only Commandments you know are the ones that are unconstitutional.

They not only don't believe in GOD, THEY WORK VERY HARD TO SHATTER ONES FAITH AND IT's ALL THEY CAN DO TO STOP ANYONE ELSE FROM CHOOSING GOD.

Ya know what that kind of person is to me ?

DEAD.

They are DEAD to me,

but the souls that might be led to Christ are open season for Atheists in what can only be seen as collaborating with Satan. You see their it is in black and white. You want to attack our GOD you do as Satan's servant whether you believe in it or not, if a Christian is to believe the teachings of Jesus know that we must by our faith believe in what he taught and that means SATAN is REAL.

At least to Christians he is.

Spare me the mundane platitudes from the peanut gallery while I explain.


That is the MY logical basis for my disdain and loathing of Atheists for the crime of aiding and abetting Satan in the lost souls THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE. THAT MEANS WAR, THAT MEANS CHRISTIANS ACT SUPERSTITIOUSLY TOO. At least to atheists we do.

Ok lets see how superstitious it is to be a damn atheists.

---

I think Christianity should see these people for what they really are and NOT TRY TO UNDERSTAND A DAMN THING THEY ESPOUSE AS SCIENCE BECAUSE IT ISN'T SCIENCE, IT IS A LIE CALLED EVOLUTION AND WHILE THEY WANT EVERYONE TO SEE IT AS TRUTH THE ONLY REQUIREMENT IS AGAIN THE SIGN THAT SAYS NO GODS ALLOWED NO Christians welcome and NO FAITH.

They don't use evolution as science,, they use it as a tool to prove that GOD doesn't exist. NOT to explain anything about how we got here BUT TO STOP YOU FROM KNOWING WHERE YOU MIGHT GO! I think it's time CHRISTIANS START TREATING THESE PEOPLE WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE AND JUSTIFY THEIR RIDICULE OF GOD AND CHRISTIANITY .

It's used to be where I couldn't have cared less about your being an atheist and while you blame Christians for "rubbing" religion in your face,,ALL I SEE IS THE GOD HATERS GOD DENIERS AND ENEMY'S OF CHRIST AND THOSE HE CAME TO SAVE BY A NEW FUNDAMENTALIST CULT CLEVERLY CONTRIVED AS A NON RELIGION WITH NO GOD.

They work very hard to make themselves almost invisible having no other distinction as they use cleverly worded phrases to test our faith. Like can God create a rock he can not lift. I realize this impressed many of them and is easily answered by most intelligent Christians but their are some on the precipice of understanding faith that may be lost to Satan because of such atheistic tricks. Fighting Satan isn't their responsibility anyway.

IT IS OURS.


That makes YOU the enemy whether you like it or not. That may scare Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins and to them I would say yes be afraid

Be Very afraid

As you know, us Christians can get pretty crazy and go off destroying abortion clinics and killing Doctors who murder babies, or umm I mean "fetus" Albeit, I don't agree with abortion, I also don't agree with some of our methods. I will also be honest, If I were on the jury of that Christians Court Case I would be more inclined to find him innocent then guilty of murder especially if The Doctor was an avowed atheist.

Then I would know unequivocally, those kids, never had a chance to survive. Some survival of the fittest eh.

ATHEISM IS A FALSE RELIGION WHOSE GOD IS SATAN.

SATAN DOESN'T CARE ABOUT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE AND I AM SURE HE GETS A KICK OUT OF BEING THE CENTER OF YOUR RELIGION WHEN NONE OF YOU EVEN KNOW IT. HE HAS YOU DRESSED UP AND SENDS ALL OF YOU TO THE PARTY IN THE COSTUME.


THE RELIGION OF NO GOD.

You want to see the "Logic" of the God denier's in all it's staggering intellect and clever reparte?

Here is one of their many clever one liners that I see they went Gah Gah over because it is OH SOOOO DEAD ON TO THE TRUTH AN MAKES ANYONE LOOK OH SO SILLY FOR CALLING ATHEISM A RELIGION.

See Below:

"If atheism is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."
"
They actually think this hits home! They actually think this is "neat stuff" As much as I agree the intent is to make one say to themselves "but that doesn't make sense,,, so the atheist can say now you get it!"

What THEY (atheists) DOES NOT GET is that it doesn't make sense because atheism IS a religion! If they want to attack the hobby of stamp collectors and say hobby's don't exist, FINE because that's about the only logical conclusion you can derive from that slogan.

I know this much about human nature, that if a thing doesn't exist or a faith in something is baseless Then they actually think I must KNOW something I believe in doesn't exist. An atheist attempting to make fun of me saying "You don't see atheists praising Satan, how could we be a religion when we don't believe in GOD OF ANY KIND!"

YES HOW IN DEED!

SATAN found a way for you to and you buy in to it.

He has found a way that appeals to your intellectual snobbery and I agree some atheists are intelligent and most think I am a complete idiot. You serve a GOD and you don't even know it because you are so against ANY God the idea alone would have you saying no way.

Yet Satan took that and from there it was easy to figure out how to do it while he is as invisible to you as is your God and you wonder why you don't see it. Well it is my FAITH that sees it and tells me it is true it is your intellect and the handicap of not having evolved long enough or should I say "good enough" having only six senses you don't see it.

BY THEIR FRUITS YOU SHALL KNOW THEM the bible says.

Your fruits aren't the kind you can eat my friend and although that may be used as one to add to your contradictions of the bible, I think you are smart enough to know what that means nevertheless.

I would agree I am not very smart so I guess it is true that the real enemy of atheism is stupidity?

So go ahead, call me stupid

See how far that gets ya.

see how "smart" that is.

I think Christians should shun atheist's not even give them the benefit of the doubt and hold nothing back in their contempt, for the, their objective agenda for the world and science for theirs isn't one of REAL science OR is it one of making the world a better place.

I see the most holier then thou posts being made by atheists saying things that are so absolutely despicable that if you are a christian and you are wondering why I am so much more against them then I ever was,,, then Christian you need to start reading up on these elitist control freaks

If you just were a people who didn't believe in GOD,, that would fine,, BUT IT'S MORE THEN THAT. Now all of a sudden we are hearing how we oppressed this atheist . That we Christians are being portrayed as the most evil people on the planet, that we may in fact be the very cause of the end of the species. While we have been murdering millions and having no lasting benefit to mankind in history.

My chin hits the floor at the depths of such ignorance. Atheist are so religiously fanatic, so much about mocking those who are not of the same belief it is disturbing to say the least.

That they buy into their own nonsense to justify why such accusation are impossible because as they say,, they have no belief they have no agenda but they will scream at you for saying God Bless you if one of them sneezes.

(Talk about superstitious)

They will sue you for showing them the nativity while those same dollars could be used to fight child porn which is something they would only turn and look the other way without being nearly as offended.

(talk about hypocrisy)

This is why I am calling it what it IS and it isn't the nativity that offends them, IT IS THE VERY SIGHT OF BABY JESUS THEY FIND REPUGNANT!

That is what Christians have to understand about Atheists. They REALLY DO GET OFFENDED and it isn't just whining about silly things like separation of Church and state! Not even I could believe that they are THAT petty. What they are is the result of unknowingly being the physical manifestation or "Host" of legions.

Or is it I'm just superstitious?

Their vitriol not unlike the reaction a Vampire would have when faced with a crucifix. The sight of Christian Icons of any kind make them physically ill. SATAN has filled their heads with so many reasons to hate us but none of them have a thing to do with GOD? It's as if Faith makes people stupid and murderous some atheists actually say that and have gone on a mission to end Faith world wide.

Well,, you want to see how murderous we are??

KEEP PUSHING IT, KEEP MOCKING THEM, KEEP UP YOUR USUAL MONOSYLLABIC DIATRIBE IN YOUR EFFORTS TO MAKE PUBLIC EXAMPLES OF CHRISTIANS WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY.

Oh yeah Christians,, this is all on their Messiahs website Mr. Dick DoH!kens

It's a war I am willing to fight and die fighting my friend and that's a war YOU picked with us and,,

GOD WINS.

I have even seen prison statistics used on a dozen atheist websites proclaiming their lesser numbers proves they have the moral high ground adding more looney logic to add to the list of reasons why Faith is evil.

These so called intelligent people haven't figured out that it isn't GOD that makes a murderer or believing the Bible that makes a group of those believers kill other people, IT IS WHEN THEY DON'T ACT ON THAT BELIEF, WHEN THEY TURN THEIR BACK TO GODS WILL.

I also will inform you that Christians are not pacifist and they will cut you down at the knees for threatening them or their freedom OF religion while ending your freedom FROM religion.

The day I put a gun to your head and make you say I love Jesus, is the day you will have a REASON to think you need freedom FROM religion. Until then, you can keep whining.

Us Christians know you're not a sinner because you sin, you sin because you are a sinner. THAT'S MANS NATURE AND GOD GAVE US A FREE MORAL AGENCY BUT YOU DON'T SEEM TO THINK CHRISTIANS SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO DO SINFUL THINGS AND THAT WHEN WE DO YOU POINT IT OUT AS MORE REASON TO HATE US AND OUR GOD DISMISSING US AND OUR BELIEFS AS HYPOCRISY.

Guess what atheist,, HYPOCRISY is a sin God forgives!

But you can't.

Christians better start seeing this scam for what it is. WAKE UP GODS PEOPLE BECAUSE THIS is a well organized well planned agenda and they want all people of faith GONE or on ice somewhere. As long as they aren't in a free society making babies and committing child abuse (this is what they called it) on our kids for raising them as Christians.

Just read some of this GARBAGE and Ill say it again because it is as worthy as trash as Garbage gets.

Christians I realize you are reading the bible and what plans your church has to house the homeless, feed the poor and albeit we are told we are busy planing our next genocide, it is Atheism's Nihilism that makes US their most important topic.

Don't believe me?

Check out atheism's agendas

Religion is a Mind Virus
atheismblog.blogspot.com...

See Quote below:


"Now we’re really turning the believer’s classic picture of the world on its head. We’re trying to propagate the atheism meme so its spreads through the population to supplant the religious ones. They say that you’re corrupted by sin when doubts about God creep in and threaten to destroy your faith. The priests, rabbis, preachers, and evangelical believers want you to surround yourself with believers, to only read their religious texts, and to purge all non-religious thoughts and activities from your life. That’s all necessary to optimize the growing conditions for the parasite in the Petri dish of your mind. If it’s dark, ignorant, intolerant, and fearful in there, it’ll take over and infect your children, your neighbors, and your politicians (#, it’s too late already!) But it’s not really your corrupt nature and sin that’s keeping you from unity with God, it’s seductive religious ideas that have been selected through cultural evolution for maximal effectiveness, or rather, maximal infectiousness. The religious ideas would co-opt your ability to employ your powers of reason, they encourage you to doubt your own abilities. They have wound their way so deeply into the minds of its hosts, they can no longer even imagine life without believing. Imagine that those billions of years of evolution produced this human organism with so much potential to do so many remarkable things, but the vulnerability of their minds to religious infections derailed them and took over the whole race. The real sin would be to recognize what’s going on and to not say anything. The best thing you could do for humanity would be to try to reason them back to intellectual liberation."


intellectual liberation!!???

HA HA HA AND YOU GUYS THINK CHRISTIANS ARE NUTS!

This "new virus" has been talked about in many other atheist websites some suggesting it be brought to congress a bill to add serious restrictions to church and restrictions to media, books and any other information those with a pre disposition to the infection of the mind may be health risk.

Their are no words to descibe my thoughts and feelings after reading this blathering idiot website. I guess after reading it all in its raw stupidity,, I myself became retarded and now have no words to express the depths of dumbness this atheism seems to fall to.

They see themselves as our intellectual Superior.

God help me I never meet this jerk in person,,
I'd send him to hell right then and there.

Here is an interesting one
Biblical contradictions wanted!
"Does anyone have a list of Biblical contradictions?"
www.infidels.org...


After seeing this?? Do these whackos NOT HAVE A LIFE?

Should we Christians respond with a gentle and kind heart or should we just tell these instigating airheads what that site really says about them. "Please send us any dirt you got on the christian bible, even if it is nothing but dis contextual contradictions it will be appreciated for we must sink religion.

Then what prevails if they are successful?

Evolution?

what?

What prevails is EXACTLY what the Bible talks about that's what.

You superimpose all your anger and hatred on Christianity while claiming some moral high ground in what is the most transparent and juvenile expression of your own problems with yourselves.

Atheists want GOD out of our Government and think that a movement where if they make enough people question there own intelligence for believing in fairy tales that will get the rest of society to question creation because believing in santa clause is stupid when you make stupid whats in style I guess we Christians aren't very cool that way.

Dawkins, Harris and several other leaders of the Atheist Cult plan to "chip away" at Christianity little by little. First attacking the day they say among each other, is the day "stupidity" was born. That's right an all out assault on Christian Holidays, Christian reminders. They do this by "gingerly exchanging" Christian rooted vernacular where behind the guise of being "Courteous" towards those that may have different "world view" (keep that phrase in mind) they say Happy Seasons anything but Christmas. They have a world view where that very word "Christ" a word they literally find so repugnant you can see it right through them in these very posts.

Their plan is to indoctrinate new generations at the embryonic stages of their education and it is imperative their "science" maintains a monopoly hold automatically making it the defacto answer to everything.

They are beginning to use evolution and science synonymously so that we won't make the distinction that Science and evolution are have to distinct and different meanings.

I mean most kids in High School want to be accepted and is why being a Christian is so un-cool and NOT easy at all for any one of them.

IT is also the VERY reason we need to get ID in schools whether THEY think it is baseless crap or not. I think it's time we quit turning the other cheek because while your church is having bake sales and collecting money to feed kids etc.

THESE MANIACS ARE PLANNING MUCH MORE THEN NOT ATTENDING A CHURCH THAT HAS NO RELIGION WITH A GOD THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

Confusing?

IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

Or as Sam Harris descibes the method of sneaking this world view into our society without us being able to even accuse them is by using cleverly defined double negatives. I Logical Dichotomy. He calls it "keeping under the radar" He has even started to teach the Atheists to start changing that title too making them even less easier to identify. Anotherwords he wants them to change them from Atheists to "reasonable" or "Logical"

So when we ask, are you atheists they will say no in the very near future. Well then what are you ? I'm just being reasonable I guess.

They talk about discrimination and equal rights for gays and ridding the world of racial hatred but discriminate against religion with a very well organised agenda we Christians have been unaware of.

They have rooted this into schools and used the very rights we have in our constitution to use as an angle to keep us out.

Guess what atheist,, you got our attention and now we are going to get yours. All you did by sueing us and bitching about our nativity scene all this crap about mind virus is wake a sleeping giant.

You should all do as Sam Harris suggests

Go under the radar or ,,

Just go away.


They assume the position they have has scientific advantage along with the intelligent reputation. This is why it is a MUST they hang on to it as Creationism would offer a compelling choice NOT of Christianity but that this isn't a cosmic crap shoot.

By our own logical standard of morality, we Christians usually bite our toungue and I have seen this as a reputation, atheists will test and then accuse you of over stepping "that's a little strong language for a so called bible believer" That dog won't hunt anymore,, Not with this Christain anyway because I see that too as just more reason to justify the suggestion that Christians are being attacked and to FIGHT BACK.

Once spiritual Warfare is waged then all bets are off and the rules of engagement go like this

To clarify: Witness = live your Christianity, don't debate it.
Debate = CRUSH KILL AND Destroy your opponent's argument.

Join the new Christian study group being formed and learn the fine art of scientific debate being taught by the BEST in the Christian underground of spirtual warfare factions existing to make those who mock us and our lord while romancing the lost to a certain eternity in a place they don't want to be let alone believe exits in another singularity.

That it is NO LONGER OUR PROBLEM that these brainfogged beligerant boiler rooms for baal worship don't get it.

I can assure all of them will when they die.

They not only will get it, they will get it on bended knee. They will not only meet GOD himself face to face proving beyond any doubt that he exists but that everything they thought was totally absurd about GOD, was just nothing more then their own ego unable to fathom that they really DIDN'T KNOW IT ALL.

That there IS more then our five sense, our mortal finite minds can comprehend. Pride comes before a fall fellas hehe

That what THEY thought a GOD should have been like in a sort of spritual shotgun wedding where the concepts of heaven and hell are not merely the scare tactics of a fundie but REALLY ARE the wages of choosing a science that discriminates against GOD rather then explains GOD. Evil-ution explains absolutley nothing about the orgin of life, why we are here or where we came from.

A science only an atheist could love because it is easier for them to assume they are too intelligent for GOD

Calling Dec 25th the day "stupidity" was born.

You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense"

Any Christian wanting to engage these haters of God the haters of Christians and wanting to know how to CRUSH them and their science, The lord has introduced Chistian special forces in spiritual warefare and I will me more then happy to introduce who these people are.

It's Ironic that they were devout Athesist who the lord has chosen but whats more is they are EXTREME in their methods and STRONG in the LORD.

When anyone of these Soul slayers for the pseudo intellectual reliance of Evilscience or Evilution wish to use their typical sarcasm and their metaphorical mumbo jumbo, you will see new methods of responding to this stuck up arrogance. They will not only end up looking like they are way out of their league, they will be made an example of just how smart Atheists really are.

Atheists asked for this and they are going to get it.


Listening to them at all puts many peoples very souls in the balance.

If they don't like the way I am raising my kids or that I go to this church or think their is a God,,

Ya know what??

TUFF!

I don't consider ridiculing people for their beliefs as moral either, but hey, that's what this thread is all about. Without God, morality is merely contrasting but equal opinion.

Yes, this type of discussion is indeed too 'serious' for this thread.if any of you are up to seeing just how well I can defend my position, just start the thread and let me know. You have no science but the science of lies you are unskilled and unaware of that fact.

That while You believe that planes, computers, calculators, compasses, etc, were "all obviously designed," yet the human body, being intricately more complex was "obviously a product of biological evolution." It seems the more complex the apparatus, the more obvious the "fact" that it was not designed.


Mmmmm Pretty soon, as technology gets even more advanced I will expect that too will be called Technology by Natural Production.


They are constantly raising the issue that Christianity and Religion have been the CAUSE of murdered millions!

I notice they make a distinction in the above statement between 'murder' and 'kill'. If there is no distinction between these two words, your statement would read, "Was it murder for human beings to murder other human beings?"

Is taking the life of other human beings always wrong?

If so, we have just discovered a moral absolute. As an atheist, they point to this slaughter by Moses as despicable, yet many admit that the U.S. bombing of Hiroshima was a necessary act.

They see killing of the Amalekites as evil because it was a convenient way to condemn Christianity's god.

You bring up that God tells us not to kill, yet directly orders Moses to kill. Were the U.S. soldiers murderers? If men can take lives and not be considered immoral, then why can't God do the same and not be considered immoral?

I understand this difference and am a US veteran and I would kill you where you stand as an enemy of my right to believe.

That means we have to get Congress to either allow ID in schools whether they think it is Science or not we do it,, or VOTE THEIR ASS OUT OF OFFICE. We still can get that much done soon and many of the churchs are sending out a round robin letter to make the rest of them aware of this new anti religion and anti chirst.

You consistently deny the existence of God because you personally have never seen him but you reject out of hand personal testimony from theists who claim to have experienced God as a reality in their lives.


You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public "common sense".

You believe that if something cannot be touched, seen, heard, or measured in some way, then it must not exist, yet you fail to see the irony of your calling Christians "narrow-minded".

You are a person who absolutely believes that life came from nonlife, yet absolutely deny the possibility of anyone rising from the dead.


You claim that the 'God' mentioned by Albert Einstein and Steven Hawkings is nature and that they were atheists, then claim that you have no religion, which is defined by the dictionary as "Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe." By the way Steven Hawkings is a Christian these days after his research in Astronomy proved to him GOD IS

You believe Any scholar who believes in a historical Jesus must be a theist. If they are an atheist, then they must secretly want to be a theist. You insist that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" then claim that Jesus never existed! HA HA or that the holocaust was a HOAX!


and you call Christians crazy!

HA HA HA WOW!

You contend that no war in history has ever been created by non-belief. Yet, when you are told that 176 million people lost their lives in wars during the last century, created by non-believers like Stalin, Lenin, Mao and Hitler, to name only a few, you reply that those wars fought were fought in the name of ideology and not 'atheism' as atheists "…don't fly planes into buildings or start wars."

I have NO idea what THAT has to do with Religion because as a Christian I see extreme muslim Jihadists doing what they do more for political reasons about oil.

You think that religious wars have killed more people than any other kind of war, even though the largest wars of the last 200 years (World War I and II, Civil War, etc.) had no discernable religious causes.


In a conversation you hear religion represented in a positive light. People like Madness or demon hell start preaching about the Inquisition and the Crusades to put things back on track. After all, "we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door now can we!".

WHY IS THAT? CAN YOU TELL ME ?


You desperately confer with other skeptics to try and refute the evidence that Hitler's Holocaust was evolution-inspired, because, Garsh Dang it all,, Atheists just GOTTA prove that Hitler was a Christian.

He wasn't. How many times do you have to be told. When you meet with him in hell I guess THEN you will know.


You're convinced, despite evidence to the contrary, that Christianity was responsible for the Jewish holocaust because, Darn it all Jasper,, it just SEEMS like something Christians would do.

Well,,, it isn't!

in fact it was his having no logical base for morality


You believe that Hitler claiming to be a Christian is undeniable proof that he was a Christian, while George Washington only claimed to be a Christian in order to win the people's favor.

You adamantly refuse to recognise the historical fact that "scientific atheism" was both a foundational philosophical position and an actual policy of the Soviet Union from the time of Lenin on, responsible for untold persecution, torture, suffering, humiliation and death far in excess of the numbers of the "victims" of Christianity.

It is your ignorance of history by constantly repeating grossly exaggerated numbers of victims of Christian Inquisitions, crusades and witchhunts dredged up from various unscholarly hate sites and passed off as historical fact.

Atheists will tell us, 9 MILLION women were put to death as witches by Christian fanatics in pre-Enlightenment Europe. You assert that the 300 Protestants put to death under the reign of "Bloody Mary" in 16th century England stand as absolute proof of the inherent evil of Christianity but the tens upon tens of millions killed by Marxist regimes under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot in the 20th century have absolutely NOTHING to do with the profound atheism inherent in these regimes.

You continually argue that Hitler was a "real Christian" even when he and his fellow Nazis were slaughtering millions of people (and you "conveniently" ignore the very obvious distinction between someone claiming to be a Christian and someone actually living as a Christian, and the fact that the Nuremberg prosecutors denounced Nazism as fanatically ANTI-Christian!), but you deny that the scientists who rejected Galileo's work were real scientists.

Jeeez

You insist that the historical data is too sparse to know anything about the ancient world, but you then proceed to tell us what 'actually happened' anyway!!! My GOD,, if you are going to claim you know then at least admit you are all knowing.


You assert that there is no absolute categories of good and evil, that all morals are merely personal, social and evolutionary constructs but then you can still describe Christians and Christianity as absolutely immoral, repugnant and evil and a danger to humanity and not feel even a twinge of hypocrisy at the monumental illogic of your position.


You lump all Christians in with whatever religious fruitcake is the flavour of the month, while living with the delusion that there are no atheistic weirdos out there.

Well I got news for ya!

Ther are many

You feel that Christians who go into atheist chat rooms are "shoving their beliefs down people's throats", and that atheists who go into Christian chat rooms are only trying to educate.

You think it is a "slam dunk" proof against God when you ask why He doesn't stop horrible things like, i.e., child rape, but evade the reply that you obviously don't want God stopping your own sins by pointing out that it isn't your problem because you don't believe in God in the first place.

You deface money by scribbling God off of dollar bills.
You think God was cruel for killing all of those innocent babies in the flood then tell us you don't believe in God when it is countered with a greater good

You quite rightly denounce the methods of those who deny the historicity of the Holocaust, then use the same methods(inventing excuses to ignore evidence)to deny the historicity of Jesus.

You believe that nativity scenes should be banned from public view, but that anyone objecting to pornography only has to look the other way.

You object to any mention of "God" and "Jesus" in the media and education.

except as swear words.

You think that it's wrong to execute a convicted serial killer, but abortion on demand is a constitutional right.

You uphold a woman’s right to choose, unless a woman chooses adoption, chooses to be a stay-at-home mom, chooses to homeschool, or chooses to start a business.

You start a lawsuit to expunge Christian books from the school libraries because it violates "separation of church and state" that you insist is in the Constitution. Simultaneously you start a lawsuit to defend the right to have books in the same school libraries advocating the religion of Wicca.

If someone says 'God Bless' when you sneeze, you make them 'take it back!'

I have seen over and over, Atheists saying "Christian Apologists warp the definitions of words to make the Bible say what they want it to say." And then you go on to say that in the Bible, "feet" means "genitals" and "thigh" means "fetus"

Although you are a 'free-thinker' and 'rational' person, you lose all reason when reading The Bible. It is OK for atheists to express their godless opinions but the moment Christians do the same you email the ACLU. Well I got news for ya and take this as a heads up.

Two can play at that game and it's our move.

You think that Christianity is a 'virulent memeplex' and that atheism is the 'cure.' You call God "she" in the presence of Christians simply out of sheer spite. As if that's going to hurt our witto feewings.

You think that it is possible to talk meaningfully about "good and evil" "right and wrong" when decrying the sins of the Church while simultaneously subscribing to the notion that neither sin nor good and evil exist as ultimate categories but only as personal and social constructs.

You don't eat at Church's Chicken, and it's NOT because the chicken's too greasy. (Talk about being a "fundie")

You go to work on Christmas and instead take Halloween off.

You try to prove that the bible contradicts itself by producing out of context quotes like "God...is...a...liar...." (Genesis 1:3 - 1 John 3:4)

If evil-ution was so damn compelling, one can't say evolution knows what it's doing, where it's going etc. Since it doesn't and is an aimless purposeless thoughtless phenomena of random mutations and various other words used to explain the result of billions of years of cosmic crap shoots, carelessly coliding chemicals conluding the accidental existence of YOU AND I. a creationless creature who is nevertheless self aware by a process of things unaware.

a-theizms bio-baloney can't sell it and is why only 10-15 % of the public believes it. I mean it gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Lucky to be alive"

This is what they say about us

"Myth: Believing in God is never a root cause of significant evil.
The counter examples of cases where it was someone's belief in God that was the direct justification for their perpetrated horrendous evils on humankind are too numerous to mention"

here is a myth if there ever was one being spread by Atheists and thier flagrant fallacy flatulence as I can only imagine they get this from there anus.

MYTH: Believing in God is the root cause of significant evil.

Here is another on this Atheist website

"Myth: We have immortal souls that survive the death of the body."


Boy that's one you better hope TO GOD is true because you got hell to pay quite literally otherwise. I can't say that is a myth however and neither can atheists. I guess they can tell us after they're dead.

DoH!

You assert that the crimes and failings of some Christians (acting inconsistently with the teachings of Christ at that!) disproves the whole edifice of Christianity but that the crimes and failings of some atheists (acting consistently with the fact that atheism can provide no basis for objective morality!) should on no account be held against the philosophy of atheism.

NOT ANYMORE,, and if you atheists ever needed a reason to change the name of your anti religion,, you will have one soon I can assure you.


You assert that "faith is believing things which you know aren't true".
You really "believe" that many human beings actually BELIEVE things they KNOW aren't true.

Show me a person who knowingly passes up a chance to destroy their enemy. When a person does these things, they are not acting according to human nature, but against it. The most valued attributes of mankind do not come naturally to the human animal; character borrows from the divine. Disciplined Thought is far more superior and preferable to Free Thought.

Christians THE NEW Disciplined Thinkers!

Atheists? Anti Religion Anti Christ

The great whore

666





[edit on 10-1-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by ReelView
 


That was a long post, but from what I picked out, you are bashing atheists for horrible reasons. You say atheists have less morale then Christians, I am sorry but that is completely wrong. I am not dumb enough that I have to read a made up book to learn my morales. I grow up and observe my environment and absorb the morales that I think are reasonable and I pick up some of the morals from my parents.

You are a fool, and just like most other christians. You think everyone non-christian is immoral and a satanist, get over yourself and wake up.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by BlitzKrieger
reply to post by ReelView
 


That was a long post, but from what I picked out, you are bashing atheists for horrible reasons. You say atheists have less morale then Christians, I am sorry but that is completely wrong. I am not dumb enough that I have to read a made up book to learn my morales. I grow up and observe my environment and absorb the morales that I think are reasonable and I pick up some of the morals from my parents.

You are a fool, and just like most other christians. You think everyone non-christian is immoral and a satanist, get over yourself and wake up.


You are an atheist that is all I need to know the rest of your opinions are none of my business. My post was directed to those Christians that hear my message they know what to do. I didn't used to think anything of athesists till I came here. From here I started going to atheist websites atheist alliance meetings in my state and yeah Christianity has some wrong doing they are accountable for.

Getting over myself ?

NO.

Wake up?

You have awaken me and a whole lot more.

I wouldn't worry about the satan thing, I mean afterall,, he is a myth right?



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 02:25 AM
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blah. edited out.

[edit on 10-1-2008 by NewWorldOver]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 04:54 AM
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Religion can provide proof, even scientific proof, read and learn or hide and live in ignorance:

www.quranmiracles.com...

www.miraclesofthequran.com...



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by weedwhacker

Who here does not know, now, what causes lightning? Well, imagine some thousands of years ago, experiencing this phenomenon...try to imagine what 'they' would have thought.

THAT, only one example, is how religion begins to develop...an attempt to explain, through 'faith' instead of science, something that defies every day experiences. It is built in, it is part of our imagination...the up side is, it gives us art and music and love...

(there is a darker side as well, which we all know about...unfortunately).



Where do you people come up with this "stuff" First of all I am delighted you chose Lightning in your analogy because we STILL know every little about lightning. Secondly DON'T take the word "Faith" and make it a blanket meaning to all that dumbs us down. Your real tactic is one of mud slingning faith because YOU are an atheist and FAITH has confounded them for decades because it isn't something you can sink your teeth into. It isn't something you can influence intellectually.

That is one of the many reasons people of faith are seen as stupid but what is stupid isn't faith or the people that have faith. It is the idea that since you can't persuade someone with faith using logical constructs that would appeal to the human mind.

They don't mean jack to the human heart

I think Athesims vilification of faith has got be the most self destructive attack on a peoples personal ideology they could have ever picked as an adversary and they do it at ther own peril.

And finally,,where did you get the idea that because we know how lightning works or how it happens invalidates it as a creation or invention of GOD?

Your finite understanding of knowledge combined with your presumptuous opinion that we know more then they did back when makes a good example of opinions atheists think they are as intellectual elitists.

We know nothing more then they did back then, unless of course you are speaking from a position of intellectual finish lines. The more we know the more we discover, the more we have to learn.'

It's all relative guy and whats more is,, ending faith isn't going to change that, speed it up or make it any better.

You take faith from people,, they have no faith in anything

not even in themselves.

Faith has it's purpose and calling it stupid or useless isn't going to make it go away any faster. On the contrary,, it only makes it stronger.

- Con



[edit on 10-1-2008 by Conspiriology]



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 06:15 AM
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People still believe that there is a man in the sky first because they are being brainwashed for centuries and some time ago you would be punished or even tortured to death for saying that there is no God.
Second people are too weak to accept the fact that no one is watching and helping them every time they are in trouble.
Sure everything in the nature has some point so there must be some point of existence of the Universe but nobody know what it is.
Long time ago people thought that Sun is the eye of the God and now everybody knows that it's just a star. Probably in the future people will realize that there is no God at all.
Also there are people who can predict the future like Vanga and people who know how to use magic but scientists still can't find they way they do it.



posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by raze78
Religion can provide proof, even scientific proof, read and learn or hide and live in ignorance:

www.quranmiracles.com...

www.miraclesofthequran.com...


No brother,, you are mistaken,, you see it IS true science can and DOES substantiate many of the stories told in the Bible. Saying Religion does can mean anything. Let Atheist continue to use that word in ther sweeping broad generalizations. You see however what I am saying is true,, that when enough people use a word synonymously to mean another word, others start to adopt this "new" meaning. This is currently the practice of the Atheist faith. They say it isn't a religion because it has no GOD as if there was something written in stone saying there has to be.

They use the word evolution interchangeably with Science. Once they claim that words new meaning as their own, what are we left with? A Science that bars our theory from ever escaping the idea that it is religion behind the guise of science as if science and religion can not mix. This belief is absolutely absurd and on it's face can be seen even more as a tactic to use dis-contextual meanings to keep creationism exempt from being seen for what it is. Simply a theory more plausible then evolution that endorses NO religion what so ever. You see now why they always use religion as a blanket generalization?

They had managed to do the same thing using Religion synonymously with creationism and they are NOT the same thing. So it got changed to intelligent design but in a landmark court case where one of the proponents of making it an elective course in school was "busted" when he mistakenly called intelligent design "Creationism" the Judge who had obviously been just as indoctrinated by atheism language imperatives made a snap judgement as if to say AH HA !! this is religion! Atheism said whew! We are stronger then they are with deeper pockets and will steal many of their invisible tactics to get our agenda WELDED to the State.

Plus a few tricks of our own I have been reading about at Christian Apologetics sites. You need to talk to Queenannie and AshelyD is a VERY SHARP SISTER and STRONG in the lord.

She ROCKS

Why would we want to join faith based missions to enjoy government subsidized assistance? Because THEY AREN'T A RELIGION AND FOR THE SAME REASON THEY ARE SO BENT ON SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE, IS WHY WE HAVE TO SEE THAT MORE SERIOUSLY THEN JUST CALLING THEM WHINING CRY BABY ATHEIST. If we don't,, they will.

If they get there first,, you can kiss your church goodbye because like they did to get a lock on science in an academic monopoly, once they get into our politics, they will strike the words GOD from money and most things we have it on that they have to touch. It is holy water to a vampire apparently and they call US superstitious.

O and to be clear about this idea we think we are better then atheists?

Make no mistake,,, that is exactly the position I am taking with them

Atheists are beneath me now that I know what they have planned in there "World View" and the extinction of Religion, Faith and Christianity.

Ya know if this wasn't Satan's work, they wouldn't have such a bent for attacking the Christian Religion as they do. Make sense?

They won't read your data my friend,,, but I read everything about atheism and evolution I can get my hands on. I can't tell you how naive we have been why this Cult has been working behind the scenes or "under the radar" as agent provocateurs with an impassioned mission to use evolution as a model to sell the public plans to create a better human specimen. Last time anyone did this kind of thing, they tried to impersonate Christians while exterminating millions of those thought to have too many negative mutations while creating a master race.

Now they have no religion or god to see any hypocrisy we could identify but their agenda is very similar and creating an accelerated version of the fittest human specimen may as well be called the same thing it was last time atheists tried this garbage.

They were called Aryans and their political party they infected with atheist anti christian hate were called Nazi.

Sounds far fetched?

hehe stay tuned,, watch what happens to this forums membership in the coming weeks. the Council for a Christian America as infiltrated their inner circle having acquired some startling information. Or just simply peruse Dawkins site and start reading the posts.. They hold NOTHING BACK THERE and you will be amazed the seething cauldron of hate towards Christianity.

Yeah I get this stuff RIGHT FROM THEIR OWN MOUTHS.



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