Politics: I Don't Trust Anyone Not Voting Ron Paul

PODcast:

I Don't Trust Anyone Not Voting Ron Paul

Why? Because there's something else up...






length: 08:02
file: ptspod_2735.mp3
size: 5660k
feed: pts
status: live (at time of posting)

Just listened to your podcast,and I agree 100%, my only problem is that as an Englishman, I cannot vote for Ron Paul. If only we had someone like him here in England, if only we had a Constitution, our politicians have long since sold out to the industrialists/bankers,we are being taxed out of existence and overrun with foreigners brought in as cheap labour.
So good luck to you and Ron Paul and your Constitution, long may it stand.
In hope and optimism,
Horsegiver.

As ATS member Benny Hill so eloquently points out in his great podcast on the Ron Paul Revolution, be wary of concentrating too much effort on one man. Rather, it is the ideals that must be pursued and acted upon. Maybe you could be instrumental in organizing people that stand for a similar constitution, except, it would be nice if it was enforced for a change.

PODcast:

I Don't Trust Anyone Not Voting Ron Paul (reply 1)

Further dialog expanding my reasons for why I don't trust anyone not voting Ron Paul.






length: 11:06
file: ptspod_2736.mp3
size: 7811k
feed:
status: live (at time of posting)

but i simply don't agree with his policies...
i don't, i believe in moving towards a european, socialized healthcare system, and i believe in the civil rights movement....

sure, i agree with some points, but not enough.

honestly, i don't trust Ron Paul himself, so i'm not going vote for him.

how about this: we do all the military stuff paul is calling for, keep the income tax, and give people universal healthcare, improve education, and other improvements to the general welfare

doesn't that sound better?

...i have no interest in this. i'm a student studying abroad. i have no interest in anything paul is against... i just have different ideas.

oh, and one more thing... paul is a bit uninformed. one statement from him is that lincoln could have prevented the civil war by purchasing all the slaves...
apparently he's unaware of the two times that lincoln tried to do that.

ron paul doesn't have the goods, he's just a person with views that will end up regressing america.

i believe in uniting the continent. i like the idea. it works.
the eminent domain issue isn't that much of a concern if you consider that a superhighway isn't necessarily going to go through valuable property.


if you really like america the way it is, take your bad healthcare and all the other problems

the founding fathers argument is really... trite and stupid. i don't understand why we'd consult people who have been dead for a few hundred years on issues that are far beyond anything they could have possibly fathomed with the furthest stretch of their imagination. they're dead, their ideas worked for their time, but we have no idea how a properly informed founding father would deal with the world as it is today.


the founding fathers are dead and buried, i'm really happy they are because they aren't equipped to handle a modern world.

what would paul propose as an alternative to birthright citizenship? only those born to citizens become citizens now? or what?

immigration is already a headache for immigrants... i know because i am one (dual citizen as well). it's insane how bad our immigration system is for the immigrants. setting up something like the shengan system would be good for america, we'd be able to track those who are currently illegal.

are you aware that the constitution leaves room for growth in government and the roles it takes?

so i'm a domestic enemy because i don't agree with the constitution? i have a question, is the constitution immaculate? i have no corporate interest or anything of that sort, i just believe we need to reform the constitution. give everyone the right to PROPER education, healthcare, and that sort of stuff.

your problem is that you're a dogmatist. the constitution is your gospel.
until you can learn to think outside the box, to realize that a piece written in 1787 might not be the best way to run a country, then you aren't going to be able to participate in dialog and will continue to spout off that everyone who disagrees with you is a suspicious, anti-american character.

The John Birch Society and neo-Nazi groups like Stormfront like Ron Paul too. I don't think a Libertarian would be good for this country, but I do appreciate what Ron Paul brings to the debate.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

I believe in uniting the continent. I like the idea. It works.
The eminent domain issue isn't that much of a concern if you consider that a superhighway isn't necessarily going to go through valuable property.

I don't like the idea of a NAU. It won't work. The government is to big now. 200 years ago it was much smaller.

So you want Canada and Mexico to join the US? You are crazy. We already have Mexicans swarming us- in North Carolina. Every time I turn around no matter where I go, there's a Mexican. What bothers me is I don't know if their here legally or not. This is US soil not Mexican soil.

I say no!! Since your not living here, I don't care what you think.

Ron Paul is against the North American Union if elected he will put a stop to that real fast and withdraw the troops in Iraq. And he will put a stop the NAFTA agreement. This is why he's in the middle of the media black out and why Fox News is in the dog house. They don't want Ron Paul elected and those neo-con news stations will do anything to keep that from happening.

If Ron Paul doesn’t get the nomination- I won't vote in November.

BTW? Has anyone took the time to read about the Issues Ron Paul has listed on his website? I suggest you read them before you condem Ron Paul.


[edit on 1/7/2008 by Leyla]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Kucinich has stated that he wants to run with Paul. A bipartisan ticket would accomplish pretty much everything you stated.

Good podcast, although I don't agree with your main premise.

Ron Paul is a bit extreme in his policies for the mainstream. A lot of Democrats do not like him because he represents a change. Republicans are afraid that he might actually win and shift the party back to the true conservatives (this would be terrible for the NeoCons such as Giuliani, Cheney, etc).

EVERYONE who isn't voting for Ron Paul says he is extreme??? He is constitutional! I bet the founding fathers never thought there would be a day when someone said that fighting for the constitution was extreme. He is purely a constitutionalist and instead of using his ideals and forcing them upon us, he says, "you don't have to believe in what I believe, you will vote on it."

And all the income tax is is an unapportioned tax that helps pay back rich people for the loss of value on our dollar. Be gone, income tax.

madnessinmysoul

First, if you want a european nation...why don't you live in europe? There are people in america that don't want a european system and don't have an alternative. They can't move to another country that has another system like america. If you want a socialist system, there are other governments out there that are socialist.

If I want another capitalist nation with the rights we have now, there is no alternative, this is it. If you think there are nations out there which are fundamentally different, yet better then ours, then join them.

As far as the civil rights go, that is what motivated me into politics. That is completely different then healthcare. That is not a right. Universal healthcare is a huge entitlement system that is pretty much unconstitutional.

As far as uniting the nation, no. If you want the EU...then move there. It sounds like everything you want is already happening elsewhere. Stop trying to do us a favor by forcing your socialist system upon us and let us do capitalism. That is what america is about. If you want socialism, america isnt the place for you.

For citizenship, if you are born from an american citizen, you should be an american citizen. If not, then you should have to apply for citizenship.

Its not our strict following of the constitution that is the problem, its your poor understanding between what is a right and what is an entitlement that is the problem. You just said "people should have the right to proper healthcare, education, etc." when we do. We have the right to the best healthcare in the world. We have the right to some of the best schools and colleges in the world. We do NOT have the entitlement to the best healthcare or education in the world though. We have the right to guns. We do not have the entitlement for guns.

America is about rights, and is against entitlements. If you want entitlements, there are pleanty of "free" socialist countries out there to join. The EU is one of them.

Entitlements take away peoples rights. I am against them, and any american would be too.

Originally posted by Leyla
I don't like the idea of a NAU. It won't work. The government is to big now. 200 years ago it was much smaller.

yes, and then they had a constitutional convention and realized that the articles of confederation were crap...
oh, and the nation was also much smaller back then.

So you want Canada and Mexico to join the US? You are crazy. We already have Mexicans swarming us- in North Carolina. Every time I turn around no matter where I go, there's a Mexican. What bothers me is I don't know if their here legally or not. This is US soil not Mexican soil.

alright, it's also not german, irish, chinese, or polish soil... should we deport the descendants of those immigrants? honestly, there are hardly any americans only people born to the descendants of those who immigrated to america.

I say no!! Since your not living here, I don't care what you think.

well, i'm an american citizen... so i have that little right to vote and all those freedoms.

Ron Paul is against the North American Union if elected he will put a stop to that real fast and withdraw the troops in Iraq. And he will put a stop the NAFTA agreement. This is why he's in the middle of the media black out and why Fox News is in the dog house. They don't want Ron Paul elected and those neo-con news stations will do anything to keep that from happening.

really? a media blackout? but ABC let him on... yet they didn't let kucinich on... hmm...

If Ron Paul doesn’t get the nomination- I won't vote in November.

well, it's nice to see that you're keeping such an open mind...

BTW? Has anyone took the time to read about the Issues Ron Paul has listed on his website? I suggest you read them before you condem Ron Paul.

yes, and i disagree with most of his views.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
First, if you want a european nation...why don't you live in europe?

clearly you ignored the part where i said i'm a student studying abroad... i'm actually in europe right now. that's why i want some aspects of a european system incorporated into america, i've seen how well they work first hand.

There are people in america that don't want a european system and don't have an alternative. They can't move to another country that has another system like america.

you mean one where you can be completely taken advantage of by circumstance?

If you want a socialist system, there are other governments out there that are socialist.

socialism... you say that both like it's a bad thing and like it's what i'm espousing.

If I want another capitalist nation with the rights we have now, there is no alternative, this is it. If you think there are nations out there which are fundamentally different, yet better then ours, then join them.

you're missing the point, i want to make america a better place.

As far as the civil rights go, that is what motivated me into politics.

well, ron paul said that he would have voted against the civil rights act... so there you go.

That is completely different then healthcare. That is not a right. Universal healthcare is a huge entitlement system that is pretty much unconstitutional.

it's promoting the general welfare... that's quite constitutional.

it's also the best system you can have. just look at the data, nations with socialized systems have it better if they have the money to fund it. america has more than enough money to manage it, yet they don't for some reason i've yet to discern, they're afraid to implement it.
the 5 best healthcare systems in the world:
socialized
socialized
socialized
socialized
socialized

As far as uniting the nation, no.

yet you have no reasoning... quite common.

If you want the EU...then move there.

i'm actually currently residing in my nation of origin and EU member state malta. that's why i want such things for america, i see the positive influence it has.

It sounds like everything you want is already happening elsewhere.

yes, which is why america should realize that it's behind the curve for once...

Stop trying to do us a favor by forcing your socialist system upon us and let us do capitalism. That is what america is about. If you want socialism, america isnt the place for you.

again, brandishing around the world socialism. i'm not talking abut redistribution of wealth, i'm talking about doing what's best for the people here. clearly PURE capitalism doesn't work, using certain ideas from socialism is a logical course to take.

For citizenship, if you are born from an american citizen, you should be an american citizen. If not, then you should have to apply for citizenship.

that's kind of odd... because everyone living in the americas at the time of the ratification of the constitution just became a citizen... honestly, the system you're proposing is very...well, bigoted... and would cause a paperwork nightmare... especially since you'd have to get a visa for any child born to immigrant parents.
it would do undue harm to any immigrant family that happens to have a child here.

Its not our strict following of the constitution that is the problem, its your poor understanding between what is a right and what is an entitlement that is the problem.

or it's your assumption that i have a poor understanding.

You just said "people should have the right to proper healthcare, education, etc." when we do. We have the right to the best healthcare in the world. We have the right to some of the best schools and colleges in the world. We do NOT have the entitlement to the best healthcare or education in the world though. We have the right to guns. We do not have the entitlement for guns.

actually, americans don't have a right to things they cannot access...like the best healthcare. now, if you count being able to go to france and get that as part of the right... then i guess you could say they have the right to it.

i also think education should be an entitlement. it's the only way for a truly capitalist society to thrive and be equal at the same time. without entitlement to education, a capitalist society will devolve into a system where one cannot advance without birth being the most significant factor.

same with healthcare. if you're a poor family and you're stricken with cancer, then you're going to have a harder time recovering than if you were a rich family. this shows an inherent INEQUALITY in the system in which the rich are simply entitled by birth to a rich family...

oh, and it would actually save the capitalist system a bunch of money at a time when health insurance has become one of the highest expenditures of any business.

America is about rights, and is against entitlements. If you want entitlements, there are pleanty of "free" socialist countries out there to join. The EU is one of them.

well, you clearly don't understand global politics when you label the EU as a country instead of a union of sovereign nations...

Entitlements take away peoples rights. I am against them, and any american would be too.

ok... you're going to just put out a baseless opinion and then appeal to base patriotism to mask your lack of argument... good job

how about this, i'm for entitlement by national citizenship, you're for people being entitled by birth to a family... your position sounds awfully medieval.

PODcast:

I Don't Trust Anyone Not Voting Ron Paul (reply 2)

This is long but covers replies down to biggie smalls.






length: 40:33
file: ptspod_2740.mp3
size: 18997k
feed:
status: live (at time of posting)

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
clearly you ignored the part where i said i'm a student studying abroad... i'm actually in europe right now. that's why i want some aspects of a european system incorporated into america, i've seen how well they work first hand.

Well stop. We aren't asking for you to take socialist policies of a foreign government and convert our government. If you like that system more, then stay there. Its really that simple. If there were a system better than ours, I would move there. There is no such system, so I am staying in the current one. Its not in the best shape, but its still better than the EU and all those other nations practicing socialism.

you mean one where you can be completely taken advantage of by circumstance?

You can believe that if you want. The reality is this, the only person that wants to completely take advantage of me is you by transforming the US government into one that further takes money out of my pockets by law. That is being taken advantage of.

you're missing the point, i want to make america a better place.

and you are missing the point, we don't want your help. We would rather improve on our system, rather than adopting some foreign governments system. Just because you think you are making america a better place doesn't mean you are.

well, ron paul said that he would have voted against the civil rights act... so there you go.

I meant the civil rights movement, not the civil rights act.

it's promoting the general welfare... that's quite constitutional.

No its not promoting it, its demanding it. Promoting it is like the government releasing an ad that says "everyone work together to lower insurance costs! Help your neighbor when you can!" What you are talking about is taking money directly out of peoples paychecks/wallets and telling them they HAVE to help everyone else or face punishment by law. That is not constitutional.

it's also the best system you can have. just look at the data, nations with socialized systems have it better if they have the money to fund it. america has more than enough money to manage it, yet they don't for some reason i've yet to discern, they're afraid to implement it.
the 5 best healthcare systems in the world:
socialized
socialized
socialized
socialized
socialized

and the top 5 nations political systems are:
socialist
socialist
socialist
socialist
socialist
The United States..is not socialist. It never should be, and hopefully never will be. Stealing money from other people to pay for your medical bills may sound nice, but its still wrong. I don't care if you have the most pure of intentions, stealing money from people is unconstitutional.

In a socialist system the poor don't need to rob people, they have the government do it for them.

yet you have no reasoning... quite common.

I have a pretty good reason. Its called sovernty. If mexico and canda want to become United States states, let them apply for it and if we want them in, we will let them. If they don't want to become part of the United States following our federal governments laws, then I don't see any room for them in our government. Plain and simple.

i'm actually currently residing in my nation of origin and EU member state malta. that's why i want such things for america, i see the positive influence it has.

Do us a bigger favor and just stay there. If its so positive just stay there and let us Americans handle our nation without having to transform it into the EU Pt.2

yes, which is why america should realize that it's behind the curve for once...

Or that we just aren't interested in conforming to what you believe is "the right thing to do" when the reality is...other people do have different views.

again, brandishing around the world socialism. i'm not talking abut redistribution of wealth, i'm talking about doing what's best for the people here. clearly PURE capitalism doesn't work, using certain ideas from socialism is a logical course to take.

You call it doing whats best for the people, I call it robbery of people that worked hard to get what they earned. Funny that thing called perspective. I say that clearly socialist ideas don't work as most countries that use it are running the programs on deficit funding and debt. And they do not have the best healthcare to be provided, just the best for everyone to get. We have the best healthcare, but not everyone can afford it.

If charity does not want to help those that can't afford it, then thats the hard reality of life. Everyone has to die one day. We can't all live forever.

that's kind of odd... because everyone living in the americas at the time of the ratification of the constitution just became a citizen... honestly, the system you're proposing is very...well, bigoted... and would cause a paperwork nightmare... especially since you'd have to get a visa for any child born to immigrant parents.
it would do undue harm to any immigrant family that happens to have a child here.

Are they a legal citizen of the united states or are they just here on working papers. If so, well then the new born isn't a US citizen, plain and simple. I didn't say "Anyone who wasn't born here isn't a US citizen. And anyone born to somebody not born in the US isnt either." I said anyone who is not currently a US citizen with legal documentation that has a child would not be a US citizen.

or it's your assumption that i have a poor understanding.

I didnt assume anything. You specifically said the right to healthcare and education. Everyone in the US already has that right. If you dont realize that then you have a poor understanding of what rights are.

actually, americans don't have a right to things they cannot access...like the best healthcare. now, if you count being able to go to france and get that as part of the right... then i guess you could say they have the right to it.

If I don't have money for a gun, do I not have the right to bear arms? Of course I do. Use some sense here.

i also think education should be an entitlement.

Well as far as the federal government is concerned, its not their place to create entitlements. If you want to make such a law at the state level, be my guest. As long as we are talking about federal government, keep your socialist policies in europe.

same with healthcare. if you're a poor family and you're stricken with cancer, then you're going to have a harder time recovering than if you were a rich family. this shows an inherent INEQUALITY in the system in which the rich are simply entitled by birth to a rich family...

No they are most certainly equal. Nobody is stopping you from getting healthcare but you. You dont have the money, that is your own problem. Nobody restricted you. You are not entitled to other peoples money just because your relatives before you didn't work hard enough or strike it rich. Everyone has equal rights, and nobody is entitled to anything. Thats the way it is, and good riddens too.

oh, and it would actually save the capitalist system a bunch of money at a time when health insurance has become one of the highest expenditures of any business.

that is because we have partial government intervention in healthcare. It is not a capitalist healthcare system, that is for sure. Americas healthcare is far from a capitalist healthcare system, and it is the fault of people who complain to the government about there rights, when they are just being too lazy to do it themselves.

well, you clearly don't understand global politics when you label the EU as a country instead of a union of sovereign nations...

As far as I am concerned the EU is one big country of socialists. Im not going to go naming all the individual nations. I could go on and name all of them, but whats the point?

ok... you're going to just put out a baseless opinion and then appeal to base patriotism to mask your lack of argument... good job

What are you talking about "baseless opinion"? You are stealing peoples MONEY, how is that not taking away somebodies rights to property. You are the one without an argument. We aren't asking for your help by bringly your all holy morally right socialist healthcare system to the United States. Our government is not about entitlements, plain and simple. If you want an entitlement system, choose a different government. What reason do you have to come over here and screw up our government?

how about this, i'm for entitlement by national citizenship, you're for people being entitled by birth to a family... your position sounds awfully medieval.

What do you mean by national citizenship? Im for everyone getting documents to become a legal citizen unless they are born to a family which is already legally citizens. Where is the problem in that?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Well stop. We aren't asking for you to take socialist policies of a foreign government and convert our government. If you like that system more, then stay there. Its really that simple. If there were a system better than ours, I would move there. There is no such system, so I am staying in the current one. Its not in the best shape, but its still better than the EU and all those other nations practicing socialism.

ok... so you're still not going to give me any reasoning? you're just going to simply say "my system is better" instead of explaining why....
looks like you don't have an argument

and, once more, there isn't a european nation currently practicing socialism, though there are ideas adopted from socialist ideology.

You can believe that if you want. The reality is this, the only person that wants to completely take advantage of me is you by transforming the US government into one that further takes money out of my pockets by law. That is being taken advantage of.

oh, really? again, i've said no socialism, just certain social style policy.
and i never said anything about collecting more taxes...
how about a streamlining of government spending by eliminating wasteful military spending and putting that money that we saved by increasing the efficiency of our spending into a universal healthcare system?
that would actually SAVE you money. you'd be paying the same amount of tax money, yet you wouldn't have to pay for healthcare unless you felt like it.

and you are missing the point, we don't want your help. We would rather improve on our system, rather than adopting some foreign governments system. Just because you think you are making america a better place doesn't mean you are.

again, you provide no reasoning. you're not even providing an example of how you'd be improving your system through the regressive policies of ron paul...

I meant the civil rights movement, not the civil rights act.

...so you're for the movement, but not the victory?

No its not promoting it, its demanding it. Promoting it is like the government releasing an ad that says "everyone work together to lower insurance costs! Help your neighbor when you can!" What you are talking about is taking money directly out of peoples paychecks/wallets and telling them they HAVE to help everyone else or face punishment by law. That is not constitutional.

really? show me where...

and the top 5 nations political systems are:
socialist
socialist
socialist
socialist
socialist

...um, you're clearly misinformed as to the meaning of "socialist" and are betraying it.
socialist refers to economics... not politics.
they're all democratic republics, by the way....

The United States..is not socialist. It never should be, and hopefully never will be. Stealing money from other people to pay for your medical bills may sound nice, but its still wrong. I don't care if you have the most pure of intentions, stealing money from people is unconstitutional.

...again, show me how. you keep brandishing this word "unconstitutional" like it's a flawless sword that will cut all my arguments in half... but i don't see how it's unconstitutional.

In a socialist system the poor don't need to rob people, they have the government do it for them.

...again, not socialism. if we keep the current taxation system and rework government spending, this system works. you're not even providing arguments here, just non-sequiters and appeals to emotion.

I have a pretty good reason. Its called sovernty.

...learn to spell an idea before you throw it about.
ok... so if the USA decides to join up with mexico and canada, it's EXERCISING it's sovereignty, not ceding it...

Originally posted by grimreaper797
f mexico and canda want to become United States states, let them apply for it and if we want them in, we will let them. If they don't want to become part of the United States following our federal governments laws, then I don't see any room for them in our government. Plain and simple.

and again, you misunderstand the concept of an international union... we aren't part of a world government, yet we're part of the united nations...

Do us a bigger favor and just stay there. If its so positive just stay there and let us Americans handle our nation without having to transform it into the EU Pt.2

I AM AN AMERICAN!
i say that proudly, despite the bad direction i see this country going. my allegiance is to the dream, not to the flag.
your bigotry shows. i've applied for american citizenship and i actually EARNED it, yet you say i should stay in my nation of origin.

Or that we just aren't interested in conforming to what you believe is "the right thing to do" when the reality is...other people do have different views.

yes, but it doesn't always matter what the viewpoint is, sometimes people are just plain wrong...

You call it doing whats best for the people, I call it robbery of people that worked hard to get what they earned.

see? all you have is emotional appeal to back up your statements.

Funny that thing called perspective. I say that clearly socialist ideas don't work as most countries that use it are running the programs on deficit funding and debt.

hey, just like the USA!

And they do not have the best healthcare to be provided, just the best for everyone to get. We have the best healthcare, but not everyone can afford it.

part of having the best healthcare is having the best access to it. needing to be a multimillionaire to get the healthcare kind of takes it out of the picture.

If charity does not want to help those that can't afford it, then thats the hard reality of life. Everyone has to die one day. We can't all live forever.

yes, but let's let the elites who were born into the elite families have the best chance by genetic and geographic lottery!

Are they a legal citizen of the united states or are they just here on working papers. If so, well then the new born isn't a US citizen, plain and simple. I didn't say "Anyone who wasn't born here isn't a US citizen. And anyone born to somebody not born in the US isnt either." I said anyone who is not currently a US citizen with legal documentation that has a child would not be a US citizen.

and that is a bigoted system. it's claiming that being an american is something inherited from parents... when it never really was. america is a construct created by IMMIGRANTS FOR IMMIGRANTS AND BY IMMIGRANTS
and, golly, i sure hope it stays that way.

I didnt assume anything. You specifically said the right to healthcare and education. Everyone in the US already has that right. If you dont realize that then you have a poor understanding of what rights are.

alright, how about the right to education not dependent on the neighborhood you live in or the paycheck your parent brings in?
education where people can advance through merit and hard work, not through connections of their families

If I don't have money for a gun, do I not have the right to bear arms? Of course I do. Use some sense here.

a stick sharpened at the end is considered and "arm"
...
see, there's a difference, and you're clearly not getting it.

Well as far as the federal government is concerned, its not their place to create entitlements. If you want to make such a law at the state level, be my guest. As long as we are talking about federal government, keep your socialist policies in europe.

why do you fear socialism? oh yes, paranoia and ignorance.

No they are most certainly equal. Nobody is stopping you from getting healthcare but you. You dont have the money, that is your own problem. Nobody restricted you.

actually...situation restricts.

You are not entitled to other peoples money just because your relatives before you didn't work hard enough or strike it rich.

alright... now that's just really, really, ridiculously stupid. and very offensive. the hardest working people in this country aren't necessarily the richest...

actually, i'm just going to stop because you clearly have not a single straw of reality to hold onto at this point if you really think that's how a capitalist system works.

Everyone has equal rights, and nobody is entitled to anything. Thats the way it is, and good riddens too.

except for homosexuals and atheists....
and black people driving cars...
and communists...
and anarchists...

actually, there are a hell of a lot of people that don't have equal rights!

that is because we have partial government intervention in healthcare. It is not a capitalist healthcare system, that is for sure. Americas healthcare is far from a capitalist healthcare system, and it is the fault of people who complain to the government about there rights, when they are just being too lazy to do it themselves.

again, you're not showing reasoning and placing blame on the victim...
and you're systematically butchering the english language

As far as I am concerned the EU is one big country of socialists. Im not going to go naming all the individual nations. I could go on and name all of them, but whats the point?

how about... the denying of ignorance and rational political discourse where name calling and a lack of reason aren't the norm?

What are you talking about "baseless opinion"? You are stealing peoples MONEY, how is that not taking away somebodies rights to property.

taxation is assurance of a citizen's contribution to the government. it's not theft, it's payment for services rendered. there are obviously certain services that a government is best equipped to handle due to accountability, results and international law... like the military.

You are the one without an argument.

actually, look at my posts, i've provided rational arguments and talked about impacts and all that good stuff.

We aren't asking for your help by bringly your all holy morally right socialist healthcare system to the United States. Our government is not about entitlements, plain and simple. If you want an entitlement system, choose a different government.

then maybe it's time for C H A N G E.

What reason do you have to come over here and screw up our government?

1: i'm not going to "screw up" anything.
2: as an american citizen with a different, less ethnocentric and isolationist perspective, i see things in a certain way and would like to contribute to my fellow americans in the way that i see best. that would be reform. the US government needs reform, and looking to the past isn't going to do it

What do you mean by national citizenship? Im for everyone getting documents to become a legal citizen unless they are born to a family which is already legally citizens. Where is the problem in that?

no... you don't understand what i'm saying.
i mean that i believe people are entitled to certain things by citizenship... actually, by being a human being.
you believe people are entitled to... well, whatever their parents earned and their parents' parents etc.
you're for a system where birth matters more than hard work and aptitude

I don't trust anyone who eats kiesh, drinks starbucks, or is a metrosexual.
The field of contenders are a motley crew. They all suck as far as I'm concerned.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


to clarify why i don't trust ron paul:

1: no metaphysical leanings at all
2: he is consistent, but he's ill-informed
A: he doesn't know civil war history... do the research.
B: he somehow thinks that the gold standard links to the price of food... i can't understand that, and really any economist can't.
C: he wants a standing army, yet says he loves the founding fathers... did he hear washington's farewell address?
a: it's obvious that the money spent on the military is better spent on the healthcare and education.

and i love something that you said "if we HAD done" i'm just going to leave it at that right now because you went on to say things...
if we HAD... but we didn't. and the world is different now. that's what you need to understand.

oh, and i do agree with some of what ron paul says, i just don't like his neo-isolationism. i think we need to interfere sometimes... but not for the sake of access to resources.

sorry if this is sloppy, it's hard to respond to speech in text...

now, i want to ask you something: why is the constitution the best document to govern our nation?

now, don't go off on a tirade, i want you to think on it and give me a reasoned response there. i want to know why each part of the constitution is the best possible thing we could have.(you don't have to include the 18th and 21st amendments)

and don't give me BS about farming for X number of years... factory farming is the business now... it's a corporation. and i'd be for a free market price.


i'll admit they were smart... but they weren't thinking ahead at social development and the new ideas that were introduced well after they died. nobody could have seen the way things were going. even our most prolific science fiction writers haven't been able to see ahead a few decades...
we don't know how franklin would have responded to the works of marx, and we never will. we can't say the founding fathers wouldn't have liked this or that unless there is something you can cite that the idea existed while they were alive and they cited it themselves


it's not ENTIRELY universal, it's not ENTIRELY timeless. parts of it are, but not the whole thing

don't be offended. i'm an american too. i grew up pledging allegiance, i just figured out that it's a piece of cloth and that the very pledge itself had become a twisted insult to the constitution... why? because i learned about the constitution too.
i also learned that one of the greatest freedoms i have is to express myself, and i chose to do it by burning that flag once.
again, why would i burn the flag? because, it's just a piece of cloth. i wouldn't burn the whole constitution (i say this because i would, in fact, burn the 18th amendment...it's the prohibition one, people afraid that i'd burn a right americans have) though i would reword parts of it it and add to it as it is very vague in certain areas and i believe it should have some things added. i burned the flag because it's become a silly idol, something that represents our country superficially, yet is revered as if it were holy.
protest, the greatest of american traditions.

and, on a note, i stopped saying the pledge my freshmen year in high school.

now, i'm just going to go off on a tangent while i wait for the rest of the audio to rebuffer, as it had stopped at this point.

ron paul is for a more nationalistic approach... moving back inward. i think that's entirely the wrong way to go. it's just not...well...moral. by moving back inward and focusing on ourselves except in extreme circumstances, we somehow separate ourselves by something that most don't choose: where they are in the world. it's a geographic lottery, i don't think that we should really care about where we are in the world. we're all human. americans are no better than the botswanans or the chinese or the brazilians or the serbians... so why should we all separate ourselves? we're humans. let's move towards uniting as one people instead of to further dividing ourselves!

ok, tangent over, yet it still hasn't buffered and it's half past midnight... so i'll respond to it later and get some sleep now.

Under best-case conditions, Ron Paul finishes New Hampshire with eight percent of the vote. He may not win the Presidency, but he is getting his message out, and that's a big deal.

Those of you who want to change the national dialogue need to be ready and willing to step up to say what's on your mild for as long as Paul is on the national stage. He's running a guerilla campaign, which means he could stay in past February 5th.

If he does stay in past February, you'll have a few more weeks to defend his arguments and make your own. that's really what you should be doing right now. Buld on what he's done ,but make your own case that you can carry forward for the next four years. Speak for yourself, as yourself, nad stay in the fight.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Those of you who want to change the national dialogue need to be ready and willing to step up to say what's on your mild for as long as Paul is on the national stage...

It is important that what he represents is carried forward, even after he is gone. I just wish the American people would give him a chance in this next four years because as most RPers are aware, he is 72. That sharp mind of his will not likely last much longer. We need to take advantage of it NOW.

You're not going to get your wish.

If you want to be taken seriously in the future as an advocate for the ideas of Ron Paul, you've got to start talking now so that you can have a track record in place when he's no longer on the national scene.