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posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


You know what I’ll do…..I’ll let you in on a little secret…. a little knowledge…

Your idea of god from the bible right….heaven, hell, angels, demons and all….that is one of many concepts of god throughout religion….just one….there are also many branches of Christianly: the catholic church, Mormonism, KKK, etc….. some thing like 33,000 there are also up to an excessive 1,000,000 different religions in the entire world…forget Abraham based….there are over 1.000,000 religions in the known world….and basically every single one has a different perception god or gods…What makes you so sure that you’ve got the right one….the correct one….what if you chose the wrong one out of the 1,000,000 different possibilities…..how would you even know….The matter of the fact is….you don’t…anyone could literally be the wrong one….

There is way to know for certain which, if any, of the over 33,000 Christian denominations is true. Some denominations may require additional actions be performed before granting access to Heaven. Such actions may include, but are not limited to: Baptism by sprinkling; Baptism by immersion; Baptism in the name of Jesus; Baptism in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; Cannibalism by Proxy; Confirmation; Ordination; Holy Matrimony; Vows of Silence; Vows of Celibacy; Vows of Poverty; Vows of Obedience; Fasting; Speaking in Tongues; Prophesying; Dancing in the Spirit; Taking up Serpents; Praying to Saints; Obeying Prophets; Obeying the Pope; Abstaining from Alcohol; Abstaining from Medical Treatment; Abstaining from Birth Control; Confessing your Sins; Self Flagellation; Paying Tithes; Paying Offerings; and Voting Republican.

There is no proof that Christianity is true, or that Jesus Christ actually existed. If any of the other hundreds of thousands or so currently practiced religions are correct, or if some long-dead religion is correct, or if some as-of-yet-undiscovered religion is correct, then believing in Jesus may offend the real God (or Gods), and may result in torture, pain, famine, pestilence, death, eternal damnation, or may cause you to be reincarnated as a dung beetle.




posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
Can you please show me one example of how a 'Biblical prophecy' has come true......just one......

Daniel has had so many prophecies come true that many deny that it was written as long ago as it was. One of which related to Alexander the Great, king of Greece:


Dan 8:20 – 26: The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand. And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:04 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
how is god loving….and such terms as loving us if it is giving us the choice of hell……that’s like you parents saying…..we love you and if you do what we say you can have and experience all these great things……but if you disobey us…we’re going to send you to jail for ever……


First off, your perception of hell is all askew of what is stated in the bible. You are going off the Roman Catholic medieval version of hell. In fact, the term hell is never even used in the bible, other then in later translations. There are many Christians who believe that the “Lake of Fire” mentioned in Revelations is actually an all consuming fire, meaning that those who cannot be in the presence of God are destroyed outright. There are Christians who believe that all will eventually be saved from that fate, and it only applies to the Fallen Angels who knew of God for a fact, and did not have to take it on faith.

God does not send anyone to hell, he did quite the opposite, he died on the cross to save you from possibly having to go to hell. We were all destined to hell from the minute we chose to live outside the grace of God, and under the law. God is a perfect being and he cannot allow imperfection in his presence, unless it is someone that has been justified through grace. Anything that falls short of Gods perfection is sinful and lost to him. Many Christians consider hell not to be a specific place, but rather not being allowed in the presence of God. Point being that God does not send people there, sin and lack of salvation sends people there, wherever you believe that to be.

Another thing you must consider is that God is not only perfect, but he is also the creator, and our ideas of justice do not match up with his. So what might seem unjust or even unfair to us, is a different story for the person who created us to begin with. By way of an example, is it wrong for a human to take another humans life? I think you will answer that as yes. Now is it wrong for God who gave that person life, to take it back when he thinks its time to do such? The answer to that is no! The reason being he is of a different station then the rest of us. It is difficult for us understand that because we can never truly create anything.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:13 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
There is no proof that Christianity is true


Let me ask you this. You made a thread and asked a question based on Christian theology and about Christian doctrine. You receive an answer based on these and then basically say, "prove it." Why should I? You were the one who wanted to know. It's no secret you believe Christianity is bogus so it would be like me making a post asking about Zeus when it is obvious I do not believe in Zeus. Someone answers my question but I tell them to "prove it." Why would I demand this? I was the one that admitted I don't believe in Zeus but continued asking questions about Zeus.

So why even bother asking questions about Christianity? Because you're not really looking for answers but are trying to be argumentative. Why do I need to prove something to answer a question that you asked? It's not a logical request.


...or that Jesus Christ actually existed.


Do this for me: Prove to me Socrates existed. I don't want historical excerpts, told what his students said about him, historical locations believed to be relevant to his life, or to be shown an image of a bust that was made after his lifetime. I want proof this figure from antiquity existed. It is impossible for you to do this. But I can still logically believe Socrates existed because I'm not dense.

It's the same with Jesus. There exists 3-4 dozen historical references to Him in first and second century writings. These include secular, pagan, Jewish (non Christian), Biblical (Christian), and external (Christian) sources. There are historical locations associated with Jesus but then we are left "proving" them as well. Justin Martyr referenced the Judean tax records in his writings to verify Jesus' birth when the documents were still in existence. Socrates had four eye witnesses to his life that wrote about him- Jesus had about one dozen. Socrates left a minor impact on the world, Jesus' life changed the world.

See where I'm going with this? No proof is never enough. You prove to me Socrates existed and I will use the same type of evidence you provide to show you Jesus existed. Unless you and I find a way to build a time machine, you will continue to deny His existence for comfort's sake (because such a denial is not based on logic) and I will accept His existence (which is a perfectly reasonable deduction) because there is simply too much evidence to show He was a real historical figure.

[edit on 1/18/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
You know what I’ll do…..I’ll let you in on a little secret…. a little knowledge…

Your idea of god from the bible right….heaven, hell, angels, demons and all….that is one of many concepts of god throughout religion….just one….there are also many branches of Christianly: the catholic church, Mormonism, KKK, etc….. some thing like 33,000 there are also up to an excessive 1,000,000 different religions in the entire world


Most Christian based religions believe that others from other Christian based religions are going to be saved as well. I only know of single Christian religion who feels the way that you are claiming, Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholicism teaches that there is no salvation outside of the church, but they also teach many things that are against scripture. Almost every single thing that Christianity is accused of doing wrong goes right back to the Catholic Church. As a matter of fact, most protestant churches even now hold open mass allowing Christians of other denominations to visit and take mass with them. You will find that though there are minor differences in dogma the majority of them follow the same basic sacraments such as baptism, communion, and confirmation. Most all protestant churched follow the “Westminster Confession of Faith”.

As to other religions, you will be shocked to find how similar many of them are. I spent some time with the American Indians, and I was shocked at how similar their beliefs were to those I hold as a Christian. You will find that nearly all religions follow the same basic tenet of the “Golden Rule”, among other things.


Originally posted by andre18
There is no proof that Christianity is true, or that Jesus Christ actually existed.

Actually the existence of Christ is corroborated in works outside the bible, including Flavius Josephus’s “Wars of the Jews”, and the Koran.

Just to let you in on a little secret…A little knowledge...



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 03:44 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 


You know I feel like the only atheist on this site…..I need some back up……yeah I could smash these people with my own logic…..but it wouldn’t hurt to get some help…..

For starters…wowowow…you’re saying hardly anyone is going to hell……tell that to mainstream priests….both catholic and Christian

If getting into heaven is so easy….why should I believe in your god in the first place…..what’s the point in believing in Jesus in that case?

One day each of us will die, are bodies will decay and eventually turn to dust. Most people believe their spirit will go to heaven after death, they believe their spirit will live on in a world without pain, a world of infinite joy…..a spiritual realm where they will live forever with god…

You all have different ideas about heaven, Your not even quite certain what will happen when you get there…but one thing is certain…it’s much better then the alternative. Those unfortunate enough not to go to heaven when they die according to you and will find themselves writhing in conscious pain for all eternity, burning in the lake of fire.

According to you, god created billions upon billions of galaxies and trillions upon trillions of stars, even though most of which cannot be seen by the naked eye, the majority of your gods creations are too far away for any man to see in person, most of the known universe just wasted space which doesn’t effect out planet or our lives in the slightest degree…but according to you it was created just for us none the less.

The majority of humanity believe in a supreme being….how ever…believing a god exists is not sufficient…..in fact….serving a god is not sufficient either….man kind has worshipped thousands of deities throughout history…some gods have resembled people….others animals….still others are a mixture of the two, it seems gods can take any form imaginable…although there are thousands of gods created by man there is only one true god according to both Christians and Muslims alike...(except for whole…3 in 1 deal…?) and serving any other but the one true god will result in the eternal damnation in infinite suffering….you must believe in the correct god…..the infinity merciful god of Abraham…the god of the old testament…

Anyone who chooses to serve another deity may as well take up a life of crime, murder, rape and child molestation…because no matter how devoted they are to their false god…no matter how they may try to please it and no matter how honorable of a life they live…your almighty, all true, all merciful god will show them no merci on judgment day….only those who believe in the correct god, stand any chance of spending an entirety with it.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 04:34 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
You know I feel like the only atheist on this site…..I need some back up……

You are far from it, as a matter of fact, there are far fewer Christians on this site then there are others. However you created a Christian baiting thread and here we are to explain ourselves.

Originally posted by andre18
yeah I could smash these people with my own logic…..

That is a pretty arrogant remark coming from someone who has only been on this site for a year. This is by far not the most difficult Christian debate I have partaken of, and I still remain a Christian.
Well as long as the gauntlet is down. Try and smash me with your logic…


Originally posted by andre18
you’re saying hardly anyone is going to hell……tell that to mainstream priests….both catholic and Christian.

You are going to have to read things more closely if you are going to debate this, or there is no point in even continuing beyond this post. What I said that that there are some Christians who believe that, I did not say that I personally believe that. That style of interpretation is called Universalism

Universalism is a religion and theology that generally holds all persons and creatures are related to God or the divine and will be reconciled to God.

There is some scriptural support for such thinking:

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Also it is not a separate religion, it’s a theology that is followed by several religions.

Originally posted by andre18
why should I believe in your god in the first place…..what’s the point in believing in Jesus in that case?

Because you should want to be a good person in the eyes of God.

Originally posted by andre18
Those unfortunate enough not to go to heaven when they die according to you and will find themselves writhing in conscious pain for all eternity, burning in the lake of fire.

Actually again you have not read closely. Many believe that those who are sent into the lake of fire immediately cease to exist.

Originally posted by andre18
You all have different ideas about heaven, Your not even quite certain what will happen when you get there

The bible never says exactly what heaven is going to be like, in fact it says that it was impossible to describe it to men.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


Originally posted by andre18
According to you, god created billions upon billions of galaxies and trillions upon trillions of stars, even though most of which cannot be seen by the naked eye, the majority of your gods creations are too far away for any man to see in person, most of the known universe just wasted space which doesn’t effect out planet or our lives in the slightest degree…but according to you it was created just for us none the less.

Neither I nor the bible mentions what is happening on other planets, if there is even life on other planets.

Originally posted by andre18
The majority of humanity believe in a supreme being….how ever…believing a god exists is not sufficient…..in fact….serving a god is not sufficient either….man kind has worshipped thousands of deities throughout history…some gods have resembled people….others animals….still others are a mixture of the two, it seems gods can take any form imaginable

As I stated above, when you begin to study religion in a bit more depth you will begin to realize that there is a common thread to many of them.

Originally posted by andre18
no matter how they may try to please it and no matter how honorable of a life they live…your almighty, all true, all merciful god will show them no merci on judgment day…

Obviously, you are getting your information from someone who was a Roman Catholic. As I have already stated, its not God who sends anyone to hell, people have done that to themselves. Secondly, Not all Christians believe that any human is going to be cast in the lake of fire. However lets get to the real reason why folks don’t want to be Christian, well those who are not brought up under other religions anyway. The real reason is that they don’t want to have to do anything or let anyone tell them that there might be something wrong with their lifestyle, which all comes down to selfishness. After all being a Christian is a free gift from God, why are there those so bent on fighting against it?



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 04:54 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 



I don’t think I’m going to get any real reasoning out of you….but here’s something you should know……if I was to be serving the correct god, it is not enough to guarantee access into heaven….millions of Jews will live their life serving the right god, only to find themselves burning forever the lake of fire (or die straight away) god created for the devil and its angles….to enter heaven you must believe in the correct god and you must accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior…

God so loved the world that it caused itself to be born of a virgin in the form if Jesus Christ and then suffered for the sins of man kind…like may mythical characters before him….by offering himself as a human sacrifice ( to himself ? ), the god of Abraham succeeded in convincing himself to forgive the sins of those who believe the story…anyone who does not believe god needed to punish itself in order to forgive you…will pay the price for their own sins

The all powerful, all merciful god will hold you responsible for every tiny thing you have ever done wrong…and will justly torture you in hell for ever…unless you accept Jesus Christ as your heavenly scapegoat and allow him to be tortured in your place.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 05:17 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Also

Believing in god and accepting Jesus will not help me get into heaven if I add anything else to the story…if I was to believe in the god of Abraham and you accept Jesus as my lord and savoir, but I also believe Jesus visited the native Americans after his resurrection and that they wrote a book detailing their experiences, I will burn in hell and Jesus will not save me…..

Millions of Mormons will also suffer in hell for ever…despite believing in the right god and accepting Jesus…..and so if I was to be able to get into heaven….I’d need to believe in god…accept Jesus as my personal scapegoat….and don’t believe anything else…Being a good person is not important…I could live a honorable life, help others and make this world a better place for current and future generations…but if I don’t believe the right story…your merciful god will throw me into the lake of fire for eternity, or I’ll just die there…..( I really don’t see the difference….torture and death in this kind of scenario ….)

I can live my entire life as an asshole, raping and murdering, but as long as I believe the right story…and accept Jesus before I die, I will spend eternity in bliss with god in heaven…..( it seems to me Gandhi is already in hell.
)


[edit on 18-1-2008 by andre18]



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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Originally posted by andre18
I don’t think I’m going to get any real reasoning out of you

I have dealt with theology across many different religions, and have never had any problem with my reasoning with any of them. I have learned a lot and explained a lot to others as well. Maybe you should go out there and study some comparative theology for yourself before you start picking on something you obviously only have one viewpoint about. Considering that many great and learned men over the years studied theology their entire lives just maybe there is something more to it then you obviously know?

Oh, but you already stated that you know more then everyone else, and would smash us to bits, didn’t you?

Still waiting for the smashing to commence.


Originally posted by andre18
millions of Jews will live their life serving the right god, only to find themselves burning forever the lake of fire (or die straight away) god created for the devil and its angles.

The Jews are a bit of a special case, they were told exactly when to expect their messiah to arrive, and even worshiped him when he entered into Jerusalem, then they chose to reject him. Because of that their fate was sealed in 70AD.


Originally posted by andre18
God so loved the world that it caused itself to be born of a virgin in the form if Jesus Christ and then suffered for the sins of man kind…like may mythical characters before him….by offering himself as a human sacrifice ( to himself ? ), the god of Abraham succeeded in convincing himself to forgive the sins of those who believe the story…anyone who does not believe god needed to punish itself in order to forgive you…will pay the price for their own sins

The all powerful, all merciful god will hold you responsible for every tiny thing you have ever done wrong…and will justly torture you in hell for ever…unless you accept Jesus Christ as your heavenly scapegoat and allow him to be tortured in your place.


Your idea’s on this are entirely askew, lets start out with the basics…
What is Sin?
Did God make Sin?
Answer those first and we can proceed from there.



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by defcon5
 



The Jews are a bit of a special case, they were told exactly when to expect their messiah to arrive, and even worshiped him when he entered into Jerusalem, then they chose to reject him. Because of that their fate was sealed in 70AD.


So….let me understand this…..even though they believe in your god ( more like you believe in their god )……they’re still going to hell…..hmmmmmm think about every single person on this planet who doesn’t believe in either your god, Jesus, or does but has something more to add to it ( Mormonism, KKK etc……that’s 6 billion people on the entire planet…..and you’re telling me hardly anyone is going to hell…..


I’m sorry but all Christianity is, is a system of control…..if there was a god……I don’t think it would send people it took time to create to hell….I mean……for bloody sake….your probably the kind of person that defends bible camp…..

What is Sin?....sin is what the church describes as anything that is against god’s will…and so…….Muslims are sinning for just being Muslims…..Atheists are sinning for being atheists…everybody is bloody sinning if there not born again Christians……I mean……what’s going on….you think a all merciful god is going to send people to hell for someone's preferred sexual orientation…….I mean WTF… someone’s going to hell for putting their penis into another mans ass……..WTF………

Hitler I can imagine……maybe…..but then again…if he died at the very last moment believing in the three steps…..believing in god and Jesus without adding anything …..he could just as well already be in heaven…no matter how many people he killed……hell he killed the one people who most of all rejected Jesus…..he probably did god a favour……


Did God make Sin? no…….we did…..as in….the church did…….god doesn’t exist…….Everyone does bad things now and again…..everyone makes mistakes….but that doesn’t mean we should be sent to hell for it…..WTF…..this is why there are so many damn religious nut jobs are in jail……



[edit on 18-1-2008 by andre18]



posted on Jan, 18 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
So….let me understand this…..even though they believe in your god ( more like you believe in their god )……they’re still going to hell…..hmmmmmm think about every single person on this planet who doesn’t believe in either your god, Jesus, or does but has something more to add to it ( Mormonism, KKK etc……that’s 6 billion people on the entire planet…..and you’re telling me hardly anyone is going to hell.

I am not saying that any specific person, whether Jewish or not, is going to hell, as a Christian I cannot judge a persons heart. What I was referring to with the Jewish people is that they ceased to be the chosen people of God, when God fulfilled the covenant that he made with them, and they in turn rejected it. This was evident in the writings of Flavius Josephus’s, as the mist of God left the Holy of Holies in the Temple Mount, and moved to the Mount of Olives, then rested on the camp of the Romans right before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. So are they a special case in the Rejection of God, the answer is yes. There are entire books of the Old Testament written specifically about God getting fed up with his chosen peoples rejection of him. Also in case you missed it while reading the Bible, the Covenant Between God and the Jews, that God would send the Messiah to them, is a frequently requiring theme in the Old Testament. As a matter of fact the Apostles were instructed that they were only to convert Jews to Christianity for three years after the death of Christ. After three years, the Sanhedrin Stoned Stephen to death, and that was Gods final straw with them being his chosen people, hence the destruction that followed shortly after.

Originally posted by andre18
I’m sorry but all Christianity is, is a system of control…..

Oh, I love when people try this statement on me, because it shows how ignorant of Christianity that they truly are. Control only exists in a religion that is based on works, meaning that if you don’t do this or that, then you are punished. Other then the Roman Catholic Church, who teaches salvation through works and grace, all other Christian based faiths teach salvation through grace alone. No one can control me when I live under grace. Thus your control argument falls right apart.

Originally posted by andre18
if there was a god……I don’t think it would send people it took time to create to hell.

Do you hear nothing that anyone explains to you? God does not send anyone to hell, they go there of their own accord.

Originally posted by andre18your probably the kind of person that defends bible camp…..

And your probably some teenager who thinks its cool to be anti-Christian, and has formed an opinion based on very little fact. The fact that your posts all read so similarly tells me that is most likely the case. Young folks think that its cool to hold an opinion, and often believe that they know so much more then the rest of us who have been here to gain some true wisdom.

Originally posted by andre18
What is Sin?....sin is what the church describes as anything that is against god’s will.
Did God make Sin? no…….we did…..as in….the church did.

Its anything that falls short of the perfection of God, and is not under the grace of God. So God did not create sin, neither did man nor the Church, its exists because God exists.

Originally posted by andre18
you think a all merciful god is going to send people to hell for someone's preferred sexual orientation.

Adultery and fornication are both sins no matter if its with a person of the same sex or one of the opposite sex.

Originally posted by andre18
this is why there are so many damn religious nut jobs are in jail…

Most of the religious people who are in jail become religious after they go to jail.

Originally posted by andre18
god doesn’t exist.

So why did you even bother to make this thread to begin with? Just felt like trying to pick on some Christians cause it makes you look/feel cool? Another trait that tells me I am speaking with a very immature person.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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when God fulfilled the covenant that he made with them, and they in turn rejected it.


Can you please show me where it specifically says in black and white….with no metaphorical BS that it clearly says that your god actually fulfilled the covenant it made with the Jews……in which they inturn rejected..?



This was evident in the writings of Flavius Josephus’s,


Show me this documentation and its authenticity as something I can use as real solid facts and proof….



as the mist of God left the Holy of Holies in the Temple Mount, and moved to the Mount of Olives, then rested on the camp of the Romans right before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD.


you better have some really good links….


God getting fed up with his chosen peoples rejection of him


So god has emotions…..that means it can feel things like guilt, rage and jealousy…and if you know anything about how emotions work….you should know all emotions are a chemicals in the brain. For god to have emotions….it must have some sort of physical body….which also means it’s as real as you and me…..which also means it’s bound by time and all the effects of the universe that we are effected by…..this also indicates it has DNA….even to go so far as a brain….I think you’ve got a very mortal type god in my opinion…..all because of emotions…..



that God would send the Messiah to them, is a frequently requiring theme in the Old Testament……
links please….



As a matter of fact the Apostles were instructed that they were only to convert Jews to Christianity for three years after the death of Christ. After three years, the Sanhedrin Stoned Stephen to death, and that was Gods final straw with them being his chosen people
again links



his chosen people………
.so god is racist now is it……..lol…….then why did it create us….if it purposely created them as its I guess you could say ( prize creation )



if you don’t do this or that, then you are punished…
.this sounds just like the normal Christianity I know and despise…….If I’m not a born again Christian completely believing in God and Jesus and without adding anything else to the story….I really will according to your faith…..be punish…simple as that….

If my control argument does fall apart then show how me being an atheist wont have me ending up when I die in hell…..until then…..all your religion is, is a form of control….either I join and accept you beliefs….or I literally will go to hell…plain and simple…..



they go there of their own accord……
tell that to Christian priests who have told me I’m going to hell for my own personal beliefs…..



And your probably some teenager who thinks its cool to be anti-Christian…


I am some 18 year old male…..who thinks anyone who believes in defending bible camp are complete and utter nut jobs…..I’d use harsher words….but I’d get warned by the mods….The world doesn't revolve around Christianity...i don't think Indians grow up to be Hindus just to be anti-Christian




has formed an opinion based on very little fact……


…has formed an opinion based on when I see fundamentalist Christians attacking abortion clinics…(If you wont we can go on all day about that abortion if you wont…..I’d love to prove another Christian wrong on that subject….) as well as bible camp….Christian’s who talk about
“god’s army?” and so…so much more….



Young folks think that its cool to hold an opinion…


WTF…..are you saying I’m not allowed to have an opinion……?


…true wisdom….


my ass….



Its anything that falls short of the perfection of God…


so you must be sinning already….which means you’re already going to hell….



Adultery and fornication are both sins no matter if its with a person of the same sex or one of the opposite sex….
.please explain further….



Most of the religious people who are in jail become religious after they go to jail…


I guess you do have a good point there….. even I would go insane after 2-3 years of jail…..I might even convert to Islam…..provided it’s either that or the knife….



So why did you even bother to make this thread to begin with?


originally? to prove a point about Thomas….but I guess…we’ve moved on from there a while ago….



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 01:18 AM
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To all that believe in the bible and believe that there are enough accounts from other witnesses:



Matthew 27:50-54 (NIV)

(52) The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.



Please show me some proof that the dead walked the streets! because if this really happened then there would surely be accounts of this from the romans.

Then how about the sky darking:


In the biblical narrative, following the death the sky is "darkened for 3 hours," from the sixth to the ninth hour (noon to mid-afternoon), but if this claim concerns anything more than a local phenomenon, it is backed up by no Roman historian.
Source



And then to top it off i will quote Byrd :


There is no record (and no graveyard) of the "slaughter of the innocents" (where all male babies were supposedly killed by Herod)... no Jewish/Greek/Roman record (they might cover up one source but not multiple ones.)

No Jewish records of damage to the temple (veil being rent, etc) during that time.
Source

[edit on 19-1-2008 by Fett Pinkus]



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 01:32 AM
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I'm lazy tonight and just about to go to bed so this will be off the top of my head. Hope it at least gives you a good start- I'm just too tired to go on a link hunt when I know I'm not the only one with access to Google.


Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Then how about the sky darking:

In the biblical narrative, following the death the sky is "darkened for 3 hours," from the sixth to the ninth hour (noon to mid-afternoon), but if this claim concerns anything more than a local phenomenon, it is backed up by no Roman historian.


Two Roman historians record the darkness that occurred. Their names are Thallus and Phlegon. Both are secular sources. Phlegon even mentions it as occurring in the reign of Tiberius (when Jesus was crucified).


There is no record (and no graveyard) of the "slaughter of the innocents" (where all male babies were supposedly killed by Herod)... no Jewish/Greek/Roman record (they might cover up one source but not multiple ones.


I think the pagan Macrobius documents or at least references the slaughter of the innocents.

As for the resurrection of the saints (and more on the slaughter of the innocents while you're at it): There is a good essay of this on christian-thinktank.com. He gives some sources too that reference this event but it was more logic-focused than sourced if I remember correctly. It's been years. The same thing with the torn veil. Might be in Josephus or the Talmud.

Sorry it's not with links and everything but, again, I need my sleep. Just do some searches now that you know the names.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Why bother arguing with them.
You're gonna get lots and lots of "it's the way god wants it"etc,etc,etc.....

God is in you, in me, in us, in everything, or he's not or both, we don't know.

You can call him what you want; he may have a beard, he may have big black eyes and grey skin, he may look like one of the banana splits. It doesn't really matter, the bible is an old book that has some good ways to live your life by but is taken WAY too literally IMO and is used as if it was sent down on a lightning bolt out of jesus' behind.

If someone wants to quote scripture with names and numbers and relate it to every single thing they do in their life, well more power to them if it makes them happy and fulfilled and as long as they don't blow up clinics and chastise those who don't believe then fine by me.

Personally, a 2000 year old book written by man that's been revised, selectively edited, and translated over and over again is not something that I can live and die by.

Just my .02 though, doesn't mean I'm right.



posted on Jan, 19 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by andre18
 


Gotta agree with you there; don't let the cloud of corrupt and controlling religion make you angry at the message though, there is good in there.
But for all we know Bo and Peep could be kickin' it with 38 others in the back lounge of Hale-Bopp right now saying "Wow, we actually we're right about this."



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