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The Richard Hoagland appreciation thread!

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posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 06:26 AM
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Hello all, I've always listened to Art Bell and his regular guest Richard Hoagland. He's the space mission expert at Coast to Coast. He has created the enterprisemission website and he's a regular now with George.
www.enterprisemission.com...
So I ask if it's ok to have this thread to talk about him, good or bad. Some think he's a hoax and knows nothing. His face on Mars theory still hasn't been proven. He speaks of being a NASA insider, but has never actually worked for NASA. At the same time, he clearly knows his space missions and he keeps up with NASATV and it's updates. So whenever something about space exploration comes our way he's the first to get on the radio and talk about breaking news.
Lately, he's been doing the conferences and he awaits new images from Mars.

Do any of you know who he is? or am I the only one. He's the father of space missions and future missions to Mars. He has pushed NASA to go to Mars and he had his way with the Bush administration on pushing the Mars landers. Basically, he's the father..he's like the Captain Kirk of our time, just getting older. Do any of you have any comments on his work? good or bad it's ok. but I think he has done more good than bad, with his Face on Mars finding he made history.

Discuss.




posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 06:34 AM
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Oh young jedi, you have opened a can of worms with this thread my friend. Keep your head low methinks...



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Originally posted by Mogwai
Oh young jedi, you have opened a can of worms with this thread my friend. Keep your head low methinks...




Really? why is that? was there a former discussion about him that I don't know about? or do people hate him or something. please explain further!



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 
There is a strong disturbance in the force towards this one. I feel it coming from the Lear/Zorgon camp if mistaken I am not.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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There are a couple of points I'd like to make before - as Mogwai has already predicted - this thread hits the proverbial fan...

First off, jedimiller, regarding your following statement:



At the same time, he clearly knows his space missions and he keeps up with NASATV and it's updates. So whenever something about space exploration comes our way he's the first to get on the radio and talk about breaking news.


This is something that anyone can do, and something that many people - people on ATS, people on other Boards, and plenty of people not posting to the 'net - already do. I'm not saying that Hoagland doesn't do these things - he does - but doing so does not make him all that particularly special.

Secondly, regarding this statement:



He's the father of space missions and future missions to Mars. He has pushed NASA to go to Mars and he had his way with the Bush administration on pushing the Mars landers. Basically, he's the father..he's like the Captain Kirk of our time, just getting older.


No. Sorry, nice try, but no. No, no, no, no, no. Where, even per Hoagland's biography at the Enterprise Mission site, do you see evidence that he is the "father" of anything. He claims to be a "former NASA consultant - whatever that means, exactly. One of his most noteworthy confirmable accomplishments is serving as science advisor to Walter Cronkite during the Apollo missions.

If you want real "fathers" of space missions, look at people like Gentry Lee, Carl Sagan, and Steve Squyres.

Hoagland keeps current on active space missions and has been able to take that knowledge and - combined with his genuinely remarkable skills as a showman/salesman - make quite a career for himself as a writer and speaker.

Don't be so quick to give credit where none is due...



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by jedimiller
He's the father of space missions and future missions to Mars. He has pushed NASA to go to Mars and he had his way with the Bush administration on pushing the Mars landers. Basically, he's the father..he's like the Captain Kirk of our time, just getting older.


Why on earth would you think he's the "father" of space missions and has influence with the Bush administration?? He's never had ANYTHING to do with either subject.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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I would like to have any VERIFIABLE connection that R.H. has to NASA itself brought out before this goes further. By that, I mean something outside of his own statements to that effect.

If there cannot be a SUBSTANTIATED connection, then he has no more weight than any other self styled expert. (And personally, I think Armap and internos and a few others right here have more claim to being experts.)

Jedi, in this forum, we try to stick to facts. We may argue the facts and what they mean, but we deal in facts. To start out a thread about this "father" figure without anything in the way of sourcing some independent opinion on such a matter is not the best beginning.

Cult figures are not the staple of Space Exploration the way they are in some areas of ATS.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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Hi, jedimiller. I have been following Hoagland for quite some time now. The first article I read of his was, The Light Finally Dawns at Cydonia …. That was really my introduction into the complexities that exist in this stuff. Since I have read that, quite soon after it was originally posted, I have gone over most of his other articles, and have both of his books, The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever (1st Edition), and his new book, Dark Mission: The Secret History of NASA, which I am now halfway through.

He has a lot of good convincing information, but I don't buy everything he says. His association with NASA was this:


Richard C. Hoagland is a former museum space science Curator; a former NASA Consultant; and, during the historic Apollo Missions to the Moon, was science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News.

Source

He was inside NASA watching the data as it was coming in, right alongside all the other NASA techs.

His study of Cydonia led him to research more about the bizzare geometry on Mars and the Moon, which started into his Hyperdimensional Physics model, where predictions of his based on that model came true.

Now with the help of Ken Johnston, he has even more convincing evidence, especially in this new book.


Ken Johnston: Well, good-morning Art.

I'd like to kind of clear that up just a little bit.

I was working for one of the prime contractors for NASA at the time. That was Brown-Root and Northrop. It was a consortium between the Brown-Root Corporation and the Northrop Corporation at the Lunar Receiving Laboratory.

They had the contract for the processing of the lunar samples and my particular function was a supervisor of the data and photo control department, which handled all of the photographic, as well as written documentation about the lunar samples.

Art Bell: So, everything that came in, went through you?

Ken Johnston: That's correct.

Source

Johnston managed to save many, un-edited, pictures that he was ordered to destroy, (Thank you). So all the airbrushing and anomalies are still in those, that aren't in the official released pictures.

I am working on a physics degree myself, so naturally, I find this stuff fascinating. And, I have a firm belief that we are not alone, and am pretty sure that somebody came along within the last billion (earth) years to check us out, if there hasn't already been some kind of civilization around, that helped jump start our existence.

What Hoagland has found, also, which I'm sure Jim Maars could relate to, is how close all these strange findings and coincidences fall into Freemasonry and ancient Egyptian ceremonies.

So, thanks for starting this thread!



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 11:54 AM
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I also found out about Hoagland listening to Coast to Coast. At first I was impressed and thought he was on to something, and in away I still do. Today I see someone looking to make money. On his site there is a lot of shameless marketing; $150 conferences, $19.95 DVDs, and of course his new book. All his other theories have seemed to fall by the wayside and he has been focusing on the moon ever since.

Does anyone know who came out with the Moon Artifact theory in the first place? It seems to me John and Richard were talking about it on C to C pretty much at the same time, though there is a small difference in theory between the two.

John Lear believes there are current mining operations on the moon as we speak. There is a breathable atmosphere, vegetation, roads, mining buckets, and many other things.

Richard Hoagland believes that there is neither a mining operation nor anybody up there. Richard thinks there are artifacts left over from a civilization millions of years old and the U.S. Government has tried to keep it a secret. He believes that the recent interest in the moon by Russia, China, India, U.S., and Japan, is a race to the fruits of advanced technology left by this extinct civilization, things like Data’s Head. I don’t know Richards views on a breathable atmosphere and vegetation.

I reside in no camp and look at the whole artifacts theory critically, yet with much interest. In my heart I want it to be true, but sometimes the evidence is too hard to swallow. The one thing the Lear/Zorgon camp has over Richard is that they don’t seem to be profiting off there efforts. If ATS pays Lear and Zorgon I doubt it would be very much.





[edit on 6-1-2008 by jojoKnowsBest]



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 11:37 PM
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Hoagy I should think is 30% believable and the rest a lot of crap! For instance he interprets Mars face as a nuclear reactor due to its shine on one side. Needless to say, this was due to the sun reflecting off the surface!

He seems to interpret everything he sees on the surface of Mars as either alien artifacts or forests and vegetation. Granted, there are anomalies up there that are as mysterious as they come. There could even be moss/lichen in some of those crevasses.

About those so called 'trees' on Mars which he insists is vegetation and proof of Mars bio-diversity, check out how far from reality he is:


One of the many 'vegitation/tree' pics taken from
Hoagland's 'Enterprise Mission'


So what he contends is that the pic above clearly shows forests on the surface of Mars. But what’s the fact? Check out the images with progressive resolution (below) and you’ll see what I mean.




South Polar Region PSP_003443_0980
Credit: NASA/JPL/University of Arizona
and jdub


Do they look like trees or just cracks/fissures on the surface of Mars? But Hoagy insists they’re trees/vegetation! Now he’ll probably change his mind after seeing these hi-res pics….or will he put another spin on it?

Cheers!


The original images are here…

www.msss.com...
hirise.lpl.arizona.edu...



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by mikesingh
 


Mike, I don't put much stock in any "expert" that doesn't check his facts any better than what you have shown Hoagy to have done here. This is about as sloppy as it gets.

You give him 30%, which is high, in my estimation. As my dear old Pappy used to say, "Even a blind hog can find an acorn once in a while, but he'll still starve to death." Meaning that anything he is right about is not research but pure luck.

So much for appreciation on my part. I'm not slandering the man, but his research leaves me unconvinced of it's worth. Other folks can feel as they please about him.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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Hoaglands theories are often pretty farfetched, especially some of his numerology or hyperdimensional physics ideas. However I do believe that he has caught NASA red handed falsifying their data, and that my friends leads to all kinds of interesting questions. What is NASA hiding? It gets especially interesting when one hears the eye witness testimonies he has gathered of airbrushing and destroying photographic data. Also I find some of the anomalous moon pictures, the huge needle towers and what not, rather intriguing.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:42 AM
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I am not saying I aggree with RH and most people are not going to agree with RH because to be truthful none of us have a clue as to what is actually on the moon and what is on mars our govt and other govt do have a history of lieing to us for our quote:safety..By that what would happen to all these religous people and deniers if actual proof came out about alot of this stuff.....It would be chaos or they would still deny this stuff though alot of it is a bit to swallow..It is still possible...."So what if mars is red we have red rock areas on earth aswell....Also neither RH nor the university pics show anything to me....I mean if I think RH with that much vegitation is going over board maybe but there still could be some there....If you take a picture of the "Grand Canyon" from that high up you wouldnt see vegitation either although it is there also you wouldnt see vegitation of desert pictures here on earth from a sattelite either....So it could be there is or isnt we do not know....And apparenty the people we think that matter are not going to tell us till they are ready if ever....Good old government......



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by NGC2736

Jedi, in this forum, we try to stick to facts. We may argue the facts and what they mean, but we deal in facts. To start out a thread about this "father" figure without anything in the way of sourcing some independent opinion on such a matter is not the best beginning.


true, but how do you want RH to prove something that's on Mars? He has the images, he has the sense and logic and most of the times he makes lots of sense. He can't take you to Mars and show you in person.

But on another note. why all the RH hate? he's the top science advisor to Coast To Coast. he's doing more than anyone I know. he deals with the space station issues, the shuttle missions..he explains things in detail and knows exactly what he's talking about. when I said he was the father, I meant it in the Radio.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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Originally posted by Quasar

What Hoagland has found, also, which I'm sure Jim Maars could relate to, is how close all these strange findings and coincidences fall into Freemasonry and ancient Egyptian ceremonies.

So, thanks for starting this thread!



Hi Quasar, yeah I heard of him with art bell, this was like 10 or so years ago. He always kept me informed on the space missions, NASA workings and planned explorations. but he hit a homerun with the face on mars. he was even on CNN. the guy is a genius..still, don't know why ATS members hate on him? so thanks for supporting him as well.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:21 AM
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reply to post by jedimiller
 


Jedi, your avatar is a cat holding a light saber. Now does it make me some kind of expert on star wars to notice that? Nope, it just means that I saw the movie. But if I go and spin a story about how cats are getting smarter and learning to use tools, and then try to prove it with a picture of your avatar, somebody needs to call the guys in white coats.

RH takes anything and blows it all out of reason with imagined "facts" and then has people like yourself who defend this because he can't be expected to show proof. If he had no proof, then he shouldn't call it fact. Let him follow John Lear's example and label it an opinion, or an idea, or a hunch. But he shouldn't try to manufacture "proof" out of his own hot air.

Someone on another thread asked me a question about Plasma Cosmology and the newly found hotspot on Saturn. I gave them an answer, but I was careful to point out that this was only a wild guess based on thinking of ways the problem of how it happened COULD have occurred.

I think some people in the UFO/junk science arena have told so many whoppers that they've started to believe the tales themselves. And when a person starts believing their own lies, they're already halfway to the funny farm and just don't know it.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:33 AM
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It always amazes me to see people bite on Jedi's threads, hook line and sinker. The first few responses to this thread should have keyed you off....



Oh young jedi, you have opened a can of worms with this thread my friend. Keep your head low methinks...


That's the point. Play dumb and get attention.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 02:48 AM
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Originally posted by NGC2736
I think some people in the UFO/junk science arena have told so many whoppers that they've started to believe the tales themselves. And when a person starts believing their own lies, they're already halfway to the funny farm and just don't know it.



Bullocks. NGC2736. Richard is the coast to coast science advisor. he didn't get that position for being wrong and a whopper, as you say. George Noory trusts him on issues dealing with science. I listen to his show almost everynight and everytime something goes on with the shuttle missions, Richard is the first to inform. He's a theorist, but more of an informer on the AM radio. he's only doing good and pushing for NASA to come out. And yes I was warned about this..Karl has said, and he's right. But look I admire Richard, he's educated, smart and descriptive and he makes lots of sense. why do I feel the need to defend him? I have no idea, maybe because I trust him. And if everyone knows me, I don't like keeping my head down. As far as the cat argument goes..that made absolutely no sense. I see you are a person of facts..and sometimes facts are not enough. if it was all about the facts we wouldn't have people with Imagination discovering new planets. Because science told us there was nothing out there.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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Is hoagland the one wrote that NASA book recently ?



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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reply to post by Sentinel 1
 


As a born again christian, from a Biblical perspective I would expect the heavens to be filled with odd lifeforms created by the master engineer/artist Yahweh. Moreover it also consistent with scripture if there were ancient highly advanced, but highly demonic civilizations prior to the flood, who spread throughout the solar system. Moreover the Bible tells us that the serpent race was extremely intelligent, smarter than man, predating man, terrestrial, and aligned with the devil.

Hoagland theorizes such a civilization and I find that consistent with scripture. However you do raise an interesting point. Current alien contact, abduction stories etc. etc. are carefully promoted to disrupt any faith in the God of the Bible. It will be part of the end times antichrist deception.



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