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western democracy - what a joke.

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posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 04:20 PM
reply to post by Tinhatman

Thanks for the great response Tinhatman,

I was in no way saying your are a corporatist swine or anything of the likes. sorry if you got that out of my questioning your score.

While I agree with the idea of free trade in its principle, I do not feel that the rich and powerful should be left to create monopolies as they already have all the wealth who's to say that in a free market companies couldn't just by out anybody they wanted.

I think in a free market, it would be the end of the little man (business wise) because off shore exports would be far easier and cost effective to produce and for those corporations that manufacture nationally, would have to either drop wages or outsource the manufacture of their product thus having to lay off manufacturing staff etc. Neither of which is good for the average working joe.

I also realise some believe that in a truely free market economy, that while the initial hit of lower wages etc would be tough, it would eventually balance out. i dont think this would be the case because of monopolies etc.

Ala 'The Shock Doctrine' in south america. (Great read strongly recommend it to you THM)

But then again, i suppose i should have more faith in people, and that given the opportunity the majority would do good instead of bad.

posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 04:27 PM

I guess I'm a little surprised by my score.
I'm in the middle, but I thought I was more economicallly conservative than what this score shows?

Economic Left/Right: 0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.44

Those questions were terribly written. They appear to have been written with a little bias to generate more left leaning results. IMO.

Either way this is an interesting post. Good job OP!

posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 05:01 PM
reply to post by blurryone

In a true free market the entire level of wealth would be lower. You must bare in mind that we have artificially inflated wealth and standards of living because of Central Banks using their power to literally create wealth out of thin air. In a true free market I think we would see a decline in the number of people (artificial wealth created a people bubble not just a money and credit bubble) due to lower birth rates, less money less babies. We would see the rise of stronger local economies due to the decentraliazation of the money/power system (free market cannot exist alongside a strong central government). People would be in true control of their own land and their own product (whether labor or otherwise) and I do not think the multinationals would be able to maintain power let alone expand it. I think it would be insane to just revert right back to a free market of course. You probably would see the rise of some super corporation. I think the steady process of reduction of government, abolishing Centralized banking, return to hard money, freeing education, amongst many many other steps would slowly bring us to a true free market economy where the state exists for the sole purpose of defense of the people and most all economies would be "local".

A buddy of mine was bitching because he lost his job at a sporting goods store because Wal-Mart put them out of business, the whole time his employer was failing he was buying groceries at Wal-Mart. Sometimes doing the right thing means having to make a sacrifice. Why complain about evil Multinationals and wicked capitalists then go buy the cheapest foreign made products you can just to artificially maintain a "higher" standard of living. We are getting what we ask for. When we buy cheap products we must remember that we are sacrificing the people of some far away land in one way or another just to pay 2 dollars less for a gallon of milk.


posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 05:27 PM
SWEEET!! i am a neo-con/libaterian....
my scores were
L/R: + 4.12
i also found the questions slanted to produce a more left type response,or it was written by some one so left and who does not even know that they are that left.

posted on Jan, 8 2008 @ 06:05 PM
reply to post by Tinhatman

Like i said, in principle, I agree with free markets. I just think it would become a vehicle for more wealth to line the wealthy's pockets.

I really recommend the shock doctrine as some reading for you. It gives details of how this has happened before and it was taken advantage of by multinationals etc.

Obviously both a government run and a free market have there pros and cons. With a Government controlled economy the government would require checks and balances to make sure they are not taking advantage of the system. Same same with the corporations in a free market.

On that note - one thing i find very interesting is how most massive corporations nowadays are backing or owned by people in government (oil families and the like). I thought government was supposed to be independent from religion and corporations?

If there was a way to nuke all money(debt) and return to a physical money/gold system i would totally agree with it. I find it ridiculous that banks can charge interest on money that doesn't even exist in the first place. (re: money as debt video)

I guess the question is, what can the average man do? you can beat 'em.... and you don't want to join 'em....

Still haven't found anybody who is up anywhere near where the government sits when it comes to fascism(social control), Why do we have a govt that controls everything so much if nobody wants it? Very interesting.

posted on Jan, 10 2008 @ 03:19 PM
reply to post by blurryone

I have read excerpts and reviews and overviews of "The Shock Doctrine" and I am going to the bookstore this evening to purchase it. The thing is, frm everything I have read so far it is actually highlighting corporate socialism more so then free market capitalism. It's about when Libertarian Economic Doctrine meets CIA death squad. It in fact highlights exactly the kind of Corporate-Government collusion I was refrencing. The only difference was that it was not the government of the countries who suffered who were acting with the help of corporations but was in fact a foreign Government acting on behalf of multi-national corporations.

Truly, it is not the companies that we need protection from. If a company does something bad everyone stops buying their product. The problem is that if a company does something bad now and we stop buying their product, the government subsidizes the product of the failing large company then puts the smaller competitive companies (who have yet to dissuade the consumers) into a no win situation by undercutting their unsubsidized product in favor of protecting the interests of the larger more wealthy (read politically connected) company. Most Libertarian Right economists agree that without the collusion of government the idea of multi-national all powerful corporations just is not realistic. Economies would localize because their would be less inhibiting the creation of wealth, as opposed to a controlled economy where we serfs have to wait for the
existing wealth to "trickle down". If we look at the history of every major corporation starting with the British East India company right on up till now you will find a history full of government restricitons on upstart competitors and even Government troops being used not only to break strikes but also to be actually used as laborers in lieu of striking employees!!

The idea that the United States of the 20th century is an example of a free market is complete and utter nonsense and in my opinion is a much better example of a Government controlled economy.

Indeed, it is the Government that will willingly sell itself that we should fear.

What we must remember is that the idea of left vs right, or Socialist vs Communists vs Democrat vs. Republican is a bunch of nonsense.

The Bolshevik revolution was funded by Central bankers.

The Third Reich was financed by American industrialists.

The American Industrial Revolution was funded by taxes against Southern agrarians and their Slave culture.

Our enemy as little people have always been the Financial elitists who also happen to be the same people who have always and will always run government. The only way to be free of "them" is to have an economic system where there is not a single currency that is controlled by a single issuer, where we do not have to pay with our money the troops who in turn are going to destroy our businesses or other peoples countries for th esake of "their corporations, a system where we can endeavor and venture into business without arbitrary restrictions placed upon us by a Government whose ultimate goal is to protect the assets of the people who run the government against the competition we would create.
How we can expect the people in power to protect us from themselves!?!

Thus we need a truly free market. Our government now calls Managed trade Free trade right to our face!! NAFTA CAFTA etc is not free trade. If it was free the government would not have to have any agreements and would not be making special rules and exemptions for material or labor or transport etc! If it wa sfree the government need not be inolved. Laws do nto create freedom, only restrict it.

Wish I had a single book to reference.

Look into the history of the industrialization of the US. All of those monopolies that were broken up by government intervention were also created by that very same governments intervention. Funny right?

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