Is there a psychopath conspiracy?

Ah yes, the lack of caps, the rambling sentences. Be well Serracruz, just remember, you lay with the dogs, you get the fleas. Buenos Nochas.

Well then, to each their own. Buenos noches.

The first thing I thought of when I skimmed this topic was A Clockwork Orange

Well I have a B.Psych and a B. Counseling, Psychotherapy and Communications degree so I can give you all a quick low down on what’s considered by most as either a sociopath or psychopath.

Here are some traits：
Sense of entitlement; Unremorseful; Apathetic to others; Unconscionable behavior; Blameful of others; Manipulative and cunning; Affectively cold; Disparate understanding; Socially irresponsible; Disregardful of obligations; Nonconforming to norms;

Here are some clinical symptoms:

Failure to conform to social norms; 2. Deceitfulness, manipulative; 3. Impulsivity, failure to plan ahead; 4. Irritability, aggressiveness; 5. Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; 6. Consistent irresponsibility; 7. Lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person.

As someone said before not all sociopaths kill people like Ted Bundy for instance who was considered a psychopath..

They can lead quite a normal life and can even excel in certain professions like lawyers, politicians, salesman etc. They are likely unable to have deep relationships with people even though people may consider them charming.

They generally have a lack of empathy ,which is a connection with people, and an understanding and/or awareness of their feelings.

As far as I know there is no “real” treatment for these individuals as their behaviour results from issues that are multifaceted and factored from many different area’s that are both internal and external.

Could they conspire amongst themselves or with other people? I don’t see why not.


[edit on 6-1-2008 by MuLongQun]

reply to post by GAOTU789

posted by GAOTU789
A psycopath sub culture. Now thats an interesting concept. You know it could be said that corporate culture is a pyscopathic one.

You couldn'tbe more right, that's exactly how it is. Allow me to quote from one of the very first posts I did on this board.

Earlier this summer on Danish television I saw a Canadian/Australian documentary on the subject, Mark Achbar's and Jennifer Abbott's, "The Corporation".

The outline was the entity as an individual. With that outset they analysed the multinational company, using the WHO definitions for a psychopat. It requires six behavorial attitudes to be met. The multinational company fulfilled them all.

And don't forget, the psychopat diagnose is the only psychiatric ailment where the patient does not suffer. Only his surroundings do.

Googling on the subject I find out this observation is from a book: Joel Bakan "The Corporation: The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power".

Corporations lack emphathy and social responsibility to such a degree, if they were individuals they'd likely be locked up. Though legally corporations have personhood, you just can't put them in the monkey house when they get too much. Eeh.. can you?

reply to post by Optimist


Sure. It's called the 7-11 commission report. We're all supposed to have an 85 IQ rating, and deduct points for alcohol and drug abuse. The "debaters" for the primaries on CNN are still discussing ways to find Bin Laden. LOL with 2012. ---------------------------PC

Originally posted by serracruz
you really believe that do you? that it is so simple and cut and dry? to what extent are you willing to enjoy revenge or do you play it up as that institutionalized of euphemisms? 'justice'

Serracruz, to whom is that post directed to?

P.S. - I did forget to add: Regarding psychopaths forming a conspiracy and working together:

There are several exampls of psychopaths working together. One that comes to mind is Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. THey worked together in Calaveras County, California, back inthe early '80's. Yes, they can and do work together.

reply to post by MuLongQun


Here are some traits：
Sense of entitlement (check); Unremorseful(depends); Apathetic to others(unless I know them and like them); Unconscionable behavior (check); Blameful of others (check); Manipulative and cunning (check); Affectively cold (when it's funny or really angry); Disparate understanding (hmm check); Socially irresponsible (check); Disregardful of obligations (major check! I owe in excess of 70k no intention to pay back whatsoever); Nonconforming to norms (major check, conforming is for when I don't want to be bothered);

Here are some clinical symptoms:

Failure to conform to social norms (check again); 2. Deceitfulness, manipulative; (check again) 3. Impulsivity, failure to plan ahead; (I do both, impulsivity and plan ahead...this is really a criterion? silly, I would think patience and an eye for detail would mean a better chance of survival) 4. Irritability, aggressiveness; (yes yes) 5. Reckless disregard for the safety of self or others; (check depends on my mood, if I feel like it I can disregard but who says there aren't emotional consequences? I enjoy repercussions) 6. Consistent irresponsibility; (hahah yeah...) 7. Lack of remorse after having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another person. (when it comes to my needs and those who I like/love, definitely, otherwise depends on mood)

Now as for empathy...I would never give up empathy no matter how troublesome it can be, I enjoy it too much. Folie a deux FTW! I suppose this makes my psychotic given the imbalances, I should note that I am bipolar by choice...And I plan on inducing permanent hallucinations eventually.

Think of me what you will, I just want to enjoy myself to the fullest extent possible in every way possible. If that means crime so be it, I can face the consequences, they are my choices after all.
(edit I took psych but I thought the professors were full of # so I dropped out of college, physics and psych are not my thing and education can be had for free in any case; enjoy your indenturing accredations)

[edit on 6-1-2008 by serracruz]

I go psychotic(crazy) all the time, and i blame A.T.S for that!!

No!! seriously!!
Psychopathy
This description sounds like every politician that has ever been in power!!
Good read!!

Thank you for the response and interesting posts. And thanks for the compliment on the article in ATS' encyclopedia wiki (I think I'm so far the only contributor to that article).

My impression is that psychopaths are said to not be "crazy", and that it's even said that they appear perfectly sane and normal -- more normal than actual normal people. They are very shrewd and put on a very deliberate performance.

I used the word "psycho" a couple of times, which isn't a good word since it can also be taken as short for "psychotic". I can of course not guarantee or such that no psychopath becomes crazy/psychotic/"loses his marbles" if he takes enough of drugs that can cause such things, but the emotional distress and such which can cause normal people to "go over the edge" and so on is not an issue with psychopaths since they don't really have emotions in the way normal people do. One thing which is said about psychopaths is, for example, that they simply do not experience the emotion of fear. It is also said that when they look on faces that express emotions, the psychopaths' brains aren't registering those emotions, which is something that can be seen in experiments using some sort of brain scanning instrument. As I think about it now, I do of course believe that psychopaths do have some sort of way of detecting when others are for example subdued or not subdued, because if the psychopaths had no way of measuring such things, then it wouldn't really be possible to manipulate people, either. Exactly how psychopaths and similar types of people perceive others and how others feel I however don't know, of course. That's an interesting topic, though.

Anyway, one of the most important books on psychopathy is The Mask Of Sanity, by Hervey Cleckley, which can be downloaded for free here (pdf, 1.4 MB). Another quite well known book on this topic is Without Conscience - The Disturbing World Of The Psychopaths Among Us, by Robert Hare.

I'm looking forward to seeing more thoughts anyone might have on this. To repeat the question from my first post: do you believe that actual psychopaths exist, and if so, do you believe that they are able to collaborate with other psychopaths to so to say further their psychopath cause or agenda in society?

Optimist


edit: fixed a link that didn't work, sorry about that..

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Optimist]

I would say yes and they are known as bankers and priests -- ie the Illuminati. Since they create the wars, the slaughters and look down on the average person. From the banking side they torture and train their children as their army. Create the wars to cultivate the technology of control. Yeah, I'd say they not only exist but proliferate.

Most of the people who are labelled "psychopaths" are really sociopaths. A true psychopath won't plot and plan, a sociopath does that.

The spectrum of psychopathy is light years wide. All behavioral traits are varied to an extent as unique as the individual. If you are looking at the spectrum in the sense that at one end is Ghandi and Mother Theresa and at the other is Hitler and Dahmer, then somewhere in between is an invisible line. Depending on how far one is on either side on either side of that line would determine to what degree they are or are not psychopathic.

With regard to the conspiracy aspect, yes, there can be. Obviously, Columbine. Obviously the DC shooters. Obviously Jim Jones and the Dividians, Skull and Bones. But I don't think those are the rule. It takes an enabler (willing victims) to allow them to become what their natural impulses direct them to do. And when I say direct them, I mean that their impulses are more powerfull than their self control, thus the detriment to society.

The hard part to understand is why do they do this?

I've had a bit of experience in dealing with psychopaths (and the scars to prove it), and what I've come to believe is that their sense of "joy" is derived from a combination of destruction (physical, emotional, psychological, social) and ultimate control over a "love-object" (power, greed, emotional control, sadism, etc.). These things are simultaneous and utterly diametricly opposed. That's why it is so confusing to people who have normal cognitive function. It's like watching someone cut off their hand with a smile on their face. A normal person would be revolted and shocked, whereas the PP would derive a little sadistic enjoyment from watching the reaction of a normal person (I use the term normal, although there is no such thing).

An aspect of conspiracy would require the PP to be self-aware. In cases where they are, then yes, a conspiracy can take place on any level. However, a non self-aware PP (which is most common) is likely to wander from imulse to impulse with no real direction. Why? Because they don't know wt(f) they are doing. How can you have an agenda when all you are doing is chasing your impulses? You can't get from A to B that way. A PP can only derive pleasure from immediate impulse reactions. That's why their crimes are often not thought out and hairbrained. Impulse driven.

I've heard it said that psychopathy is as much Charlie Manson as it is Luciele Ball. I've witnessed it enough to know this is true.

And then you have to consider how far over the line are they? If they are at the extreme of C Manson, then absolutely a conspiracy is not only possible, but likely. But then, if one has only sociopathic tendencies (the most dangerous in my opinion) and appear normal and are able to hide their impulses and natural desires, then a conspiracy is likely to be only one or two, but never more than this. Why? Because control and secrecy are the only way a PP can manipulate their environment. It is when the secrets get out and the subversive contol is discovered that the PP is "outed" and (presumably) punished. Unfortunately the world is full of enablers who don't understand this and perpetuate the pattern in finitum.

The most astonishing aspect of this sick cycle is that the PP will sadisticly enjoy the pain that they cause. Just as one may feel joy at nurturing and helping, a PP will relish the opposite.

Great thread. Sorry for rambling.

originally posted by: ReelView
I would say yes and they are known as bankers and priests -- ie the Illuminati. Since they create the wars, the slaughters and look down on the average person. From the banking side they torture and train their children as their army. Create the wars to cultivate the technology of control. Yeah, I'd say they not only exist but proliferate.

I would add to this list marketing and media personalities. The nicer psychopaths see public persuasion/manipulation as a game whereas the ones with no ethics at all see it as a way to be predators on humanity. Note that I distinguish between them because there are ethical psychopaths. The problem is that when you only see empathy and guilt in the context of cognitive reasoning and cost-benefit analysis then it can leave one open to nasty policy decisions.