It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Thinking for Yourself is Now a Crime--must read for ATS'ers

page: 3
34
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 03:07 PM
link   
A natural-person - An individual; A private person, as distinguished from an artificial person "a corporation. [Ballentine law dictionary 1930 - pg 850]

The government was created to protect and maintain "individual's" rights
There are 3 human "inalienable" rights. Life Liberty Property.
These "inalienable" rights are supposed to held sacrosanct by the government and never taken away except by your own free will.

Your "unalienable" right is "freewill" and the capacity for decision.

Artificial Person; A person created by law or by authority of law such as a corporation as distinguished from a "Natural Person", that is a Human Being. [Ballentine law dictionary 1930 - pg 109]

Person; Persons are divided by law into "persons natural" and "persons artificial" and "person" prima facie at common law and apart from any statutory enactment included both natural and artificial persons and therfore as a general rule includes corporations [body politic] [Ballentine law dictionary 1930 - pg 958]

An "Alien" is a "Person" within the meaning of due process.
A person has rights
An individual has "inalienable rights"
An individual and person have "unalienable rights"
A person has rights given by "statute"
An individual has "natural rights"

A Citizen is a "Person". One of those who compose the community and who in their associated capacity, have established or submitted themselves to the dominion of a government for the promotion of their general welfare and protection of their individual rights as well as collective rights. [Ballentine law dictionary 1930 - pg 217]

How do you become a citizen?
Sign up for a birth certificate.
you were John Doe a natural person but now out of your own free will you sign up for the benefits of a birth certificate you are now JOHN DOE - Your rights are diminished and revealed by Capitis Diminutio minima, and media and maxima.

When you forget who you are, or don't know that you are a natural person under common law and sign for more government benefits getting deeper into the body politic, [drivers licence/social insurance number/school registration/bank account/...etc] the governement has their control on you and can track you from now on.

....and basically "they" will do "in law" whatever they want to us....

....until we start to learn who we are and know our inalienable rights and capacity.

"they" = government.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by Paul E. Lake]

[edit on 6-1-2008 by Paul E. Lake]




posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 03:20 PM
link   
so the take over of America has begun... i didn't think it would start this soon, first it starts with this, then eventually total control,

enjoy what little liberties you have while you can, there is nothing you will be able to do about it,

those who go against these types of bills and against the government will most likely be taken out quickly and said to be terrorists



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 04:00 PM
link   
reply to post by tankthinker
 


sooo...did you actually read the article or what anyone said in this thread? I guess "thinking for yourself" isn't so much of a problem on ATS. All this bill does is create a commission that tries to gather information on "homegrown terrorists," not try to enforce some kind of martial law where they can detain and question anybody. if anything it seems to revoke some of the power of Bush's bills like the Patriot Act(keeping the power to survey people somewhat away from the Dept of Homeland Security).



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 04:05 PM
link   
reply to post by palehorse23
 


well i guess my wife and i will both be labled as enemies of the state--we dont even agree with each other on many subjects--but when it comes to politicians or theologians trying to think for both of us we usually are united in disagreeing with having crazy ideas shoved down our throats--both of us have never voted (i am now in 60+)--never will vote--we have absolutely nothing in common with those that refuse to obey G-Ds laws(ex.20/lev.23)--other than to be courteous--death would be a welcome relief rather than be forced to live a lie.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 04:11 PM
link   
I think this vaguely written editorial is being blown way out of proportion. It may be a scare tactic but nothing will come of it. There are millions who have what could be termed "radical" beliefs, and no one is going to jail for it. Even the sheeple would revolt against such a bill.

IMO, while I support gun control, our rights to stand as a militia are still very much there. The day before they remove our right to own guns is the day I buy one. That's a pretty radical statement. Guess its just a matter of time before the MIB's come for me.




[edit on 1/6/08 by SantaClaus]



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 04:16 PM
link   
Hey, am I the only one who thinks this is a good thing? Folk might actually pull their fingers and do something about it. That said, there might not be much you can do. The human race can't think for themselves. They need idiots telling them what to do, so they can feel safe and wallow in their ignorance.

Just remember this people: The individual is weak against the collective.

God, I hope they bring back the Gulags!

[edit on 6/1/08 by MacDonagh]



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 05:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


This is clearly a bill to convince us they are doing something. The only product of this Act appears to be spending more money on yet another Think Tank. Its meaning is null as acts of violence are already dealt with under or current legal system. Commit an act of violence and go to jail. What further is needed. Just busy work.

Its good to see some here read before they respond.



THANK YOU! This bill has already been discussed once, I said the same thing, and nobody listened. All this bill amounts to is another think tank they will spend money on for the next 18 months or so.

People read what they want to read, not what is written though.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 07:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by Xtrozero
This is a Bipartisan bill with an almost 98% yea by the house on it...

Prohibits the Department of Homeland Security's efforts to prevent ideologically-based violence and homegrown terrorism from violating the constitutional and civil rights, and civil liberties, of U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents.


It looks like the bill has built-in safeguards against its possible abuse.

The most destructive act of domestic terrorism was in the 90's, when Timothy McVeigh blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City. I believe it killed more people than any other single terrorist act by an American in the U.S. It's too bad there wasn't a commission to study that at the time it happened.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 09:00 PM
link   
Before we all panic, why not read the bill (www.govtrack.us...). My take is that the commission will seek to identify those who advocate political violence and/or terrorism. This a far cry from what we do here on ATS, which is the peaceful exchange of ideas.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 09:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Ameneter
 


I am glad to read all of the perspectives on this bill and I have to say tat I agree with some of each side. In one respect, it does state that the commission will uphold civil liberties and only go after violent radicals and terrorists. But on the other hand, we have seen many bills not pass after initial submission. My worry is that sometime in the future this bill may be amended and worded to include those who just have "radical" ideas. This is what truly scares me. To me it falls in with the recent explosion of domestic spying. I say recent but I am sure it has been around longer than most know. We are just now hearing about it through MSM. What I do not get though, is why people are not standing up to ensure that domestic spying is not allowed to continue. It is already too late as far as the internet goes since anytime we get online we are open to many forms of "spying" whether it be the government or any other joe hacker out there. We just have to keep an eye out for this type of legislation escalating into our own personal freedoms.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 10:02 PM
link   
Interesting bill.

It could very well be a benign piece of legislation that will sink tons of money into a think tank that never acheives anything. However, I've grown very skeptical of this government over the last few years and I don't trust it.

I think the thing that concerns me most is that when people support something that uses subjective terms such as "radical", they are often assuming that those who will be enforcing that term have adopted the same defination and standards for the term as they themselves have -- therefore, the legislation does not impact them. In fact they often think the legislation is a good thing. After all, why wouldn't I want what I consider to be radical thinking stamped out?

The problem with the way these bills are written is that subjective terms are NEVER clearly defined. When it becomes law, it also becomes an open door that can be walked through at any time and completely at the will and interpretation of those upholding the law.

I can understand how people can read this piece of legislation and shrug it away. I can't do that. I see the potential danger to human rights and free expression that this bill contains within it. That doesn't mean the danger will ever come to be, but at the same time, those supporting this bill can not guarantee that the danger introduced will not occur either.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 10:39 PM
link   
On the subject of thinking:lets stop! It's time to move to >lawful and legal< action.What would be a good starting point ? Let's start out by running the current flag and constitution through a shredder. The next step is we need to look for suitable replacements. For the flag, let's fly a u.s. civil flag instead.Check out its history.Now, for that problematic document called the constitution, let's arm ourselves with some historical knowledge.A good place to start would be a book by Kenneth W Royce(a.k.a.Boston Tea Party), Hologram of Liberty.We were doing quite well under the Articles of Confederation. Yes,they did need some small fixes and we would have had a really nice Republic.We changed the foundation and today you can see the fears of a real patriot,Patrick Henry, realized.



posted on Jan, 6 2008 @ 10:41 PM
link   

Originally posted by tankthinker
so the take over of America has begun... i didn't think it would start this soon, first it starts with this, then eventually total control,

enjoy what little liberties you have while you can, there is nothing you will be able to do about it,

those who go against these types of bills and against the government will most likely be taken out quickly and said to be terrorists


Oh, the takeover has begun long ago. It's an ongoing and evolving process. People are just becoming aware of it.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 12:45 AM
link   
so,acording to this bill we are dangerous "domestic terrorists"? Im sure that will keep the nation safe...



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 03:18 AM
link   

Oh great more stupid laws we don't need






posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 04:08 AM
link   
im still not so sure why people see stuff like this and start thinking "police state".

though im still not sure why anyone thinks we're EVER going to move to a police state, i actually started a thread about this once.

but ill summarize, theres no money in it. people in power are in power cuz they have money, they want to stay in power they need us tax payers out there making money so they can tax it, spending said money so they can tax it again etc.

IF we moved to a police state, how many plasma tv's and SUV's do you suppose we'd be buying? probably not many. so, what happens to the businesses that sell these items? they close. so, what about all the people taht were working for those companies? they no longer contribute to the economy either. suddenly our economy is REALLY in the crapper and not only are we poorer and more unhappy, but those in power suddenly dont have the money available to them to stay in power.

police state economies dont work. period. how important in the world game is north korea? other than their threat to south korea, not very. how important was the soviet union? other than their massive army and nuke stockpile, not very. sure they were a super power, but people would often call them a super power then snicker under their breaths.

china wasnt all that important until they opened up their economy to a more capitalist one. sure, they supplied the world with cheap crap for years but for the most part they were also considered a joke.

do you REALLY think that anyone in OUR govt wants that for us? hell no, they want us all fat dumb and happy watching our big screens and playing Xbox until its time to drive to mcdonalds in our hummers while they sit back and find more insidious ways to try to control us without rounding people up and putting them in camps.

and just who would be doing the rounding up? surely you dont think that the 4th ID is going to start rounding up their friends neighbors and family members for these camps. blackwater? sure, they'll do anything for money right? uh huh, and what prey tell are these mercs going to spend their money on? what with all the mc donalds closed and the best buys out of business.

in my opinion its in any NWO's best interest to NOT put us all in camps but find a way for us all to make MORE money so we can be taxed more and spend more and keep their money rolling in.

but thats just me. sure, im paranoid im going to have an "accident" because of the project im working on in my brothers garage but i dont think im going to end up in a camp anytime soon.

(oh and if anyone hears of a plane crash between monterey cali adn omaha ne on tuesday, say a prayer for me huh? lol)



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 04:53 AM
link   
I don't know Damocles, the powers that were in germany were living pretty good while the masses were locked up in those concentration camps.

Ya see, labeling groups of people as enemies of the state and taking them out of the mainstream population to a slave camp, while confiscating everything they own is another way to gather wealth. and if jobs are running low, and resources are scarce, it's a way to ensure that the mainstream population have enough to keep them happy.

and right at the moment, I think the powers that be have kind of lost control of the economy and have no idea which way to go. there's talk of food shortages and oil prices are rather high, with the potential of becoming higher. I wouldn't put nothing past the "have the mosts" if they find themselves having not as much. I also wouldn't put anything past the "have nots" if they find themselves having less...
so, well, all in all.....I don't see this as an impossibility.

but, well, as far as this law goes....
ya, in time, it might lead to this. but as it is now, it's just another way to drive yet another nail into our economic coffin! way too much money wasted with little or no return for the dollar.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 05:44 AM
link   
reply to post by dawnstar
 


but thats not really a great comparison is it? i mean hitlers team went out of their way to first vilify the jews to the point that the mainstream population were all for what was going on, or at least complacent enough to not raise a stink about it.

who would we vilify enough to put into camps and force into labor? what would happen when the rest of the world found out? at the very least they'd quit doing business with us most likely.

i see your point i just cant see it happening here. not in this day and age...there are some who learn from the mistakes of history.



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 06:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by Damocles
reply to post by dawnstar
 


but thats not really a great comparison is it? i mean hitlers team went out of their way to first vilify the jews to the point that the mainstream population were all for what was going on, or at least complacent enough to not raise a stink about it.


who would we vilify enough to put into camps and force into labor? what would happen when the rest of the world found out? at the very least they'd quit doing business with us most likely.

i see your point i just cant see it happening here. not in this day and age...there are some who learn from the mistakes of history.


This is what has been done to firearm owners for sometime now, vilifying them, me.

There are maybe 80 to 100 million firearm owners in the USA, wouldn't we make a large forced labor force? And who would care?

Roper



posted on Jan, 7 2008 @ 08:08 AM
link   
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


I was relieved to see this posting. I thought I must be missing something. Looks like hardly anyone else has bothered to check out the actual legislation and are just following the Counterpunch spin like a bunch of sheep. I read the Act and couldn't see what the fuss was about. It doesn't give the government or police any new powers. It certainly doesn't set up a system as described by Counterpunch where you could anonymously report anyone you don't like and have their lives wrecked by this commission. It seems to be designed and only capable of investigating those groups who promote VIOLENT radicalisation - not "thinking for yourself".

Move along people, nothing to see here...




top topics



 
34
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in

join