What Tribulation?!?!?!

reply to post by orangetom1999
Tyre was a Phoenician city. The Phoenicians were civilized. The authors of the Old Testament were another story altogether.

You make some valid points, but you spoil the good work with all your finger-pointing. Society - savage or otherwise - is not to blame for the ills of the world. You are. So am I, and the rest of the world's population, taken first of all as individuals and then as groups with a common interest opposed to the interests of other groups. If you don't like society, change your own behaviour. If everybody did that, society would change too - a fact demonstrated by the pill-driven sexual revolution of the Sixties and many other historical events.

You may find this essay instructive. I did. Here's a quote.

Most people subscribe to a different philosophy, a philosophy that is common to Republicans and Democrats, liberals and conservatives, blacks and whites, Christians and Moslems and Jews, environmentalists and industrialists, virtually every social-political group you can think of. That common philosophy is scapegoatism, which basically states that all the world's problems are someone else's fault. People refuse to see how they are contributing to the very problems they are condemning. If each of us would clean up our own acts, many of the problems in this world would be significantly reduced, if not eliminated.

When I read that, I thought instantly of ATS and its multitude of conspiracy theorists all frantically blaming someone else for everything that is wrong in the world.

I thought particularly of one member (let him remain nameless), who by his own admission on various threads is unemployed, obese, deeply in debt with a negative credit rating while still trying to borrow money, lends what money he obtains to people whom he knows are unlikely to pay it back, has taken upon himself the maintenance of a wife and some children of hers from a previous marriage despite having no income, and steals intellectual property via the Internet. He ferociously resents the government and all authorities, doctors, scientists, rich rock and movie stars and just about everyone else who has managed not to mess up their lives as richly as he has his.

As far as I am concerned, this individual, whatever his personal problems and history, is a despicable human being - not because of his behaviour, not because of his attitudes, but because his posts on ATS are all, without exception, attempts to blame somebody else for his troubles and the world's.

If people were only to take responsibility for their own lives, there would be no more conspiracy theories, and sites like ATS would - for better or worse - wither and die.

To ReginaAdonnaAaron:

I would like to ask you the following, since you are very much interested in eschatology :

Please quote Bible references when replying so that we know where you derive your understanding.

What is the difference between these two verses:

Matthew 24 (RSV)

29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;

Matthew 24 (RSV)

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

--

1. Please explain in Matthew 24:21 where it says after the tribulation of those days. What happens after the tribulation of those days?

2. What is the tribulation of those days?

3. On Matthew 24:21, please explain more "The Great Tribulation".

4. What is the difference between "The Great Tribulation" and "The Tribulation of those days?"

Thank you.


edit: seperated the questions


[edit on 8-1-2008 by amitheone]

what exactly is being discussed....er argued here.

are these just rationalizations , which could be based on whatever thought patterns each individual can think up to support their own beliefs.

and everyone here realizes they may not be truths that they spout right , just opinion each person has right?

ok with that being said, my opinion is that yes their are a number of things /problems in the world today, some of them are blown out of proportion, and some of them are underreported

I don't really have a problem with the thought that the world may go thru some huge changes in the next several years, (much more than the past couple century's) and these difficult times may resemble biblical prophecy's, but i think it would be prudent to note that even if that happened iit doesn't mean one's beleif in a Supreme being is a fact.

and before the faithful among us retatliate i would ask them this.

I don't believe in a supreme being, i believe we are all created creators of our own ability's and responsibilty's and some realize how to harness this ability better than others, I "pray" all the time and often my prayers are answered simply because i believe they will be (faith) and because i have a good intention behind them. don't think good intention are necessary but i think the energy given off from the heart (the emotions) are the strongest and therefore most "creative".

so i pray , i don't believe in god as a supreme being, and my prayers are answered. but to the faithful they believe in god , they pray for themselves or others, thru God and some or alot of their prayers are answered. both get the results . the problem i see is assuming it must be a "supreme being gets credit for them" to work. when the case could just as easily be that *believing in something as strong as a god was the only thing that would work for you to give you the strength to use these abilities we all have*

but i don't think those that need this belief to have prayers answered are any less intelligent than me, and if something works keep believing it, and if you want to change that beleif even if it works because something else makes even more sense, hold onto that old belief into the new one is strengthed enough , giving you self the option to go back to the old belief at any time during the transition. this will alleviate the fear of change

of course this is just my opinion and what makes sense to me. if someone can convince me others wise, i would change my point of view, but the reasons would have to make sense to me.

p.s and to those that are still saying well how could these changes be known about so far in the future? (hinted at in old scriptures) and so forth. well there are a few possibilitys that i can think of as to how. Namely

i think most prophecy is bunk, an attempt to make money, but i think some is based on the psychic abilities that a few certain people have, i think they are merely "possibilities" , more than random chance things, but options that may occur, and have a good chance to if certain things don't change. i think the emotional imprint of a future tragic event can be strong enough to infringe on people's consciousness and this may or may not be made more "permeable" due to wether these events have already been premediated, or perhaps following likely paths of our history. of course there are others who will have even more possible explanations, it just makes sense to me that saying it is a supreme being is the easiest reponse to those who don't realize we probably don't have the answer because we know a whole heck of a lot less than we may think.

[edit on 8-1-2008 by cpdaman]

Astyanax

You lost me here.

Tyre was a Phoenician city. The Phoenicians were civilized. The authors of the Old Testament were another story altogether.

Not sure I understand what you mean or imply about the authors of the Olde Testament and also if you know about the religious history of the Phonecians??
To my limited knowlege of history the Phonecians later became the Carthigenians. Curious as to whether you know about thier religious practices ..especially tword the conclusion of the Punic Wars with Rome...what they were doing religiously to ward off the Roman onslaught.
Curious about this when you label the Phonecians civilized.

You also lost me here about the fingerpointing. Curious once again if you looked in the mirror when you posted that statement.

To my knowlege I did not use the word "society" in my post here. I"ve never liked that word. IT seems to me that many use it to put people or debate points in a block that they can then label for the purposes of thier arguments. Never liked that word society. Was never impressed with the word.
I dont hold much stock in the intrests of what you call "society" as it tends to change like the wind with the latest fashion statements. This trend or fingerprint holds little intrest for me. Hence I do tend to change my behavior.
When I listen to the radio or boob tube I really enjoy a device called a remote controller . With this device I can tune out or turn off the rest of the world. Thus changing my behavior. Choice is a wonderful thing.

Most of my intrests and the rest of the world are different. The world can go its own way as I consider most of what the world has to offer of the lowest common denominator. Not much intrest in it. But that is ok with me.. I just go the other way. I prefer to leave the rest of the world where it is at.
I never cared at all for this default setting type tendency of the world to attempt to put "societys ills" on my shoulders so as to play through by default. As if some of us are automatically guilty for just being who and what we are. No thanks. Not intrested in this. The whorish religion of politics tends to work often on this fingerprint/default setting.

Must make haste here. Can you please elaborate by explaination what you mean by the authors of the Olde Testament and also fingerpointing.

Also have no idea who you are speaking of in your distaste of certain individuals in your post . I am not sure where that part of your post was intended to go.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Thanks,