still dosent change the fact that he was taugth by the us military complex

i guess he just repeted what he did in battle

well you dont have to read it if you dont want

probobly just as reliable as fox or smh or NY times ,

Originally posted by zerbot565
well you dont have to read it if you dont want

probobly just as reliable as fox or smh or NY times ,

FINALLY, we agree!!!! You got that right! Probably just as reliable as the rest of the rags out there!!

im an happy we can do that

Originally posted by GT100FV
30 individuals out of countless hundreds of thousands

Taking you seriously, you seem fail to understand that all these "bad apples" that were in Abu Ghraib, which I listed earlier in this topic, were in same unit. They were all in same unit! Don't you understand? They are not some single cases around the military, but whole team of lunatics and perverts. If there would have been only few individuals in Abu Ghraib that took part in dehumanization and torture, it would be OK to say that there were only few "bad apples".

Do you really believe, that these kind events surface in public every time they take place in reality? I don't think so, and I don't actually mind if you do. If all of the team/unit/whatever are all brutes, how do you think that things will come to light? No one in such teams will never tell anything, that they know were over boundary of humane behaviour, to their superiors unless they know that they superior is same type.

Originally posted by GT100FV
B-Iraq has a government. The US is working with that government and the Iraqi military/police. I'm sorry, but the insurgent as freedom fighter isn't gonna fly. They are criminal thugs desperately trying to hold onto power, influence, and relevance, in a Post Saddam world, and trying to make sure that democracy is unsuccessful.

Iraq government is not quite popular amongst it people. Insurgents are no less criminals than allied occupation forces. In fact, I believe they have more justification to fight than allied do.

You know, about the legality of the occupation: What if you were interrogating a criminal suspected of murder, and here's how it goes:

Police(you): So where were you as the murder took place?
Criminal: Umm, I was with my wife at home.
Police: No, you weren't, you were seen at the scene.
Criminal: Eh, maybe I took a jog, yes I was jogging, didn't recall it first.
Police: You were saw leaving by a car yet you tell us you were jogging?
Criminal: Umm, yes I came there with a car, took a jog, and left with a car.

Above is an example of same type scenario which took place with Iraq occupation. First Saddam was blamed of having MWD's, then he was accused of harbouring terrorist, then he was accused of killing innocent civilians and when the "justifications" all came to proven wrong, there wasn't anything else left that Allied brought up liberty and freedom, but instead of that, they managed to create chaos and misery. To me, they appear as guilty as is the criminal in preceding example.

But what comes into being soldier, I believe that every military man is a sort of madman, as they have established themselves with a system of violence and killing. Every man joining military knows he might have to kill and he is willing to take that chance. There are absolutely no justifications of taking up arms and go killing "enemies".

I hope that this time you will actually read what I'm saying, instead of spreading that random pro-american propaganda of yours.

Originally posted by v01i0
Above is an example of same type scenario which took place with Iraq occupation. First Saddam was blamed of having MWD's, then he was accused of harbouring terrorist, then he was accused of killing innocent civilians and when the "justifications" all came to proven wrong

To go just a little off-topic, when, exactly, was this?

"...then he was accused of killing innocent civilians...all came to proven wrong..."

I read what you were saying, your random anti-American propoganda is preventing you from actually knowing what has happened recently.

You do know what happened in Kuwait, don't you?

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

I read what you were saying, your random anti-American propoganda is preventing you from actually knowing what has happened recently.

You do know what happened in Kuwait, don't you?

I don't personally know much of what happened in Kuwait, as I've never personally been there. Maybe you do, since you hint in that direction? Perhaps you will then enlighten me what happened in Kuwait?

My apologies if I fail to reply in near future - I'm leaving my "base" for some time and might not be able to hang in the net for a while

Originally posted by v01i0

Iraq government is not quite popular amongst it people. Insurgents are no less criminals than allied occupation forces. In fact, I believe they have more justification to fight than allied do.

The Iraqi government was voted on by a majority of it's citizens(moreso than in US elections), and they risked death to vote. I'm not sure how you can say it's not legitimate. Of course some people will find it unpopular(just like Republicans and Democrats dislike the other's ideas, programs)
The Iraqi security forces and government don't view the US as criminals, nor do much of the population. What percentage of the population has to welcome us with open arms before we lose criminal status in your view?

But what comes into being soldier, I believe that every military man is a sort of madman, as they have established themselves with a system of violence and killing. Every man joining military knows he might have to kill and he is willing to take that chance. There are absolutely no justifications of taking up arms and go killing "enemies".

I hope that this time you will actually read what I'm saying, instead of spreading that random pro-american propaganda of yours.

Military personnel understand that they may be called upon to kill- this is true. According to you, nothing is worth fighting for, and anyone willing to do so has a screw loose.

here's a couple of quotes you should read-

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)"

"We sleep safely at night because rough men stand ready to visit violence on those who would harm us."

I don't want to keep reading through a lot of back-and-forth swipes and personal opinions so I'll just ask this in an attempt to stay on topic:

Any new information?

- Lee

Originally posted by lee anoma
I don't want to keep reading through a lot of back-and-forth swipes and personal opinions so I'll just ask this in an attempt to stay on topic:

Any new information?

- Lee

I think this turned into a general debate about Iraq about 20 pages ago.

Originally posted by jerico65
The Marine murdered a fellow Marine. You mean to tell me in the US, civilians don't murder other civilians???

That marine murdered two marines and a fetus, knowing with much
certainty that the woman was pregnant. He shot her in the back twice,
tried to decapitate her, and burned the body, and buried the remains
in his yard.

GI JOE!

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
This is the only source? Some blog?

I find this highly questionable and not believable at all. Maybe Caesar is lying.

Pure propaganda, at best!

Where are the English sources, as I cant read Arabic.
I cant even find ANY LEGIT new stories about 3 American soldiers who were shot dead by an Iraqi carrying a gun.




And bloodthirsty soldiers? That is insulting to this military wife and a lie.




[edit on 5-1-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Insulting? Deny Ignorance? Your husband is ignorant. Defending a country which uses his good gesture of defending it so rightiously as nothing more than charity. He's just a tool to occupy in the middle east in hopes of one day having it become part of the european or soon to be african union, Which also means american will be free to set its oil prices.