the question is how to count the the victims since apparently the lower stats dont contain ppl that have died in hospitals from wounds.

Reply to BlueRaja

how many of these dead can be verified by hard facts versus completely subjective wild speculation?

What do you think the total civilian deaths can be in a country where 4000 US soldiers have been killed?

Vietnamese government in 1995 revealed that 5.1 million people died during Hanoi's conflict with the United States who lost about 58,209.

Ratio- 1 US soldier dead : 87 civilians dead

Remember more than 1500 civilians died in Mogadishu where a dozen US troops got killed.

Ratio-1 US soldier dead : 83 civilians dead

Now lets say 4000 US soldiers dead TIMES by 80 civilians(rounded off) dead per soldier.

4000 * 80 =320,000 civilians dead.

Those ratios taken above are only when the US troops is involved in combat
After adding what the sectarian,civilian,terrorist war/massacre has caused.

My conclusion is about around 1 Million Civilians Dead.

Reply to BlueRaja

Have there been some wackos that commited crimes?- certainly!

Thanks for making it clear.
So there are Wackos who like to have Fun in the US military than.

I won't sit here and listen to you stereotype every US service member as falling into that category though, because it's an ugly lie.

Where did I say ALL the US troops are Wackos and like to have Fun?

As long as the Wackos exist and their victims who have been harassed/raped/killed.
Than so will the CAESAR’s exist to stop this Unjust happening.

Reply to BlueRaja

There are wackos that like to shoot people because of what color clothes they wear, what kind of music they're listening to, what kind of shoes they have on, because somebody cut them off in traffic, etc... There are also wackos that like to blow up markets indescriminately, cut off heads, execute "collaborators", etc...

And there are Wackos in the US military right?
Now instead of dodging the question please answer YES or NO?

There are Wackos who blow and chop up innocent people but that’s why they are labelled ‘terrorists’.

Originally posted by kangjia57
Reply to BlueRaja

how many of these dead can be verified by hard facts versus completely subjective wild speculation?

What do you think the total civilian deaths can be in a country where 4000 US soldiers have been killed?

Vietnamese government in 1995 revealed that 5.1 million people died during Hanoi's conflict with the United States who lost about 58,209.

Ratio- 1 US soldier dead : 87 civilians dead

In a conflict involving 500,000 US troops and B52 Stratofortresses on carpet bombing missions. As already stated (by myself and others). Do keep up, there.

Remember more than 1500 civilians died in Mogadishu where a dozen US troops got killed.

Actually, 18 died during the "Blackhawk Down" firefight. And those 1500 were not civilians. A large number were militia.

Ratio-1 US soldier dead : 83 civilians dead

From a completely different conflict using completely different weapons and with a massive difference in the number of troops deployed.

Now lets say 4000 US soldiers dead TIMES by 80 civilians(rounded off) dead per soldier.

4000 * 80 =320,000 civilians dead.

Great, now we know what the numbers in Vietnam might have looked like if there were no ARVN troops, no Aussies, No RoK troops, no Kiwis and less than 20% of the total US troops who were actually deployed.

Those ratios taken above are only when the US troops is involved in combat

Those ratios are taken from a completely different war of totally different parameters. ergo: useless.

After adding what the sectarian,civilian,terrorist war/massacre has caused.

My conclusion is about around 1 Million Civilians Dead.

Great. When I want to compare my Honda CB900F with a Massey Ferguson tractor, I know who to call.

enlighten me once again as to why i shouldent belive the story to be true when i once again read about a U.s soldier who´s raped an other human and now it even seams he cut her throut and burned her and tried to burie the remains....

both go under the category of motor vehicles , both use fuel to run , 4 wheels, both are coupes ?

the engien is totaly out if the picture , but id still say they are quite simular.

Originally posted by zerbot565
enlighten me once again as to why i shouldent belive the story to be true when i once again read about a U.s soldier who´s raped an other human and now it even seams he cut her throut and burned her and tried to burie the remains....

I will ask this question once very nicely:

Why don't you go back and read some of the points made as to why this story is by now absolutely fabricated, please?

The actions of a small minority of people do not speak for the rest of the people in the military.

If people want to focus on the negative that a few have caused, then it's best we drop it here and now. Why is that? Because, there will be no sensible discussion made.

Now go back and read, please.

Originally posted by zerbot565
enlighten me once again as to why i shouldent belive the story to be true when i once again read about a U.s soldier who´s raped an other human and now it even seams he cut her throut and burned her and tried to burie the remains....

You're comparing apples and oranges.

The Marine murdered a fellow Marine. You mean to tell me in the US, civilians don't murder other civilians???

Originally posted by kangjia57
Why not? Don’t you agree with me that US troops like to have FUN by killing civilians when they get bored? YES or NO?

I don't know why I'm wasting time answering this insane question, but the honest answer is no. The military does a nice job culling out 99.9% of the bad apples.

i came across the incident throu ats from here to the blogs and next day i read about the incident from bbc and a couple of other news agencys

ats-blogs / next day i read in the news

i think someone here pointed out that he couldent find any new body count for mosul either

wouldent that point to the fact that the shooting never happend aswell , but it did,

whats been reported so far in news is that an iraqie is in custody for kill 3 fellow soldiers for reasons not yet " know " or it could mean its under investigation.

Originally posted by jerico65
The military does a nice job culling out 99.9% of the bad apples.

Do you have any reference to back up that 99.9% you're saying?

[edit on 13-1-2008 by v01i0]

i still see the new incident i favour of the op to be true ,

you have an american military man again acused of rape and now murder ,

a language of abuse that seams to repeat.


i see no valid point in not to belive the op,