Iraqi soldier “Caesar” killed three American soldiers as they kicked , beat a pregnant woman

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This is a blatant lie. The soldiers and Marines today are the best educated and trained military the US has ever fielded.

A very large portion of the troops who are in Iraq are Reserve units, whose troops are often highly educated, who have families, and solid, good-paying jobs at home.

These individuals are contributing members of our society.

I agree and I put forth the challenge that American troops are more eductated than the American puplic.

In the Air Force it is desired for the enlisted to have a AA degree by the time they become a NCO and it is desired to have a BA/BS by the time they become a SNCO, but all SNCOs are required to have a AA degree.

In the near future these desires will be requirments.

For the Officers they start with a BS/BA and are required to have a masters by Major.

ALL military members have $4500 available per year for higher education, and a extra lifetime of $9000 for higher certifications.

Close to 100% of the Air Force is involved in some kind of higher education.

The other branches are not that far behind, and even if anyone wants to suggest the lower ranks in the Army, 1 to 4 years of service, are not the highest of standards they are lead by many who exceed the standards in not only education but integrity as well compared to the general public.

BTW is it just me or do others feel the use of "ghetto trash" is just a replacement for the "N" word?

Originally posted by Impreza
Most of the soldiers are ghetto trash and lack a good education, that's why they are so damn easy to be controlled and made to carry out dirty deeds by their officials.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by NewWorldOver


I never questioned whether children had been killed. I did ask you to show who they'd been killed by. You seemed pretty confident in stating as fact that vast amounts of children had been killed by the US military, but I have yet to see a site(aside from some Al Jazeera, etc..site) that makes those sorts of claims. As for trivializing the suffering during war- I invite you to show me any war in the past where no civilians have suffered. I also invite you to show me any military in the past that has taken as many precautions as the US(and its allies- gotta give them credit now too), in preventing civilian casualties. The time has past to debate the merits of going into Iraq- we're there, so it's a moot point. The question is what outcome do we desire to see? Do we wish to set the conditions so the Iraqis are set up for success, or do we tuck our tail between our legs in despair and leave a huge mess, and the exponential increase in violence that would follow? Germany and Japan are pretty good examples of what can result from American assistance after conflicts. Mogadishu is an example of the tucking tail(politically- the military fought very well, but weren't allowed to complete the mission due to opinion polls). As a result of our tucking tail in Somalia, we encouraged Al Qaeda and their ilk, the remainder of the 90s and on 9/11.

reply to post by jedimiller


Did you even read any of the previous pages? There has been no evidence shown that these soldiers were kicking/beating a pregnant woman. All that is known to be absolute fact, is that an Iraqi soldier(suspected of being insurgent) shot and killed Americans. His fellow Iraqis identified him, and apprehended him, and he's now in custody. This doesn't really lend a lot of credibility to the anecdotal tale that the OP asserted as fact.

As for killing, and the difference between a soldier and a policeman doing it vs you- soldiers and police have rules they have to follow too- they can't just kill whomever they please, without accountability. They are officially sanctioned in their duties though, to lawfully kill when justified(i.e. an enemy combatant or a criminal threatening violence). If they fail to adhere to the rules of engagement, they are subject to criminal prosecution, just like anyone else. If you were to just randomly kill someone, that would be murder. If on the other hand you killed them in self defense, that'd be known as a justifiable homocide. That's the same parameter soldiers and police operate under. Don't confuse murder(unlawful homocide) and killing. There's a huge legal and moral difference between the 2.

reply to post by eyewitness86


Ok, it appears like a number of others, you have failed to notice the fact that there is no evidence that there ever was a pregnant woman in the first place. The only known facts are that an Iraqi(who is very likely an insurgent) shot Americans. I see you're trying to play the game of operator here, by upgrading the original story to US forces having beaten and murdered a pregnant woman, to make it even more sensationalistic, so you could then give the diatribe that you did about the evils of America, Bush, and Fox News.

reply to post by Xtrozero


I've met quite a number of college educated lower enlisted, including those with Master's degrees. I've met Lawyers who enlisted, or those from other well paying professions, who were willing to sacrifice the higher wages for the sake of doing something they believed in. I won't deny that there have been some lackluster folks enlist, but they are certainly not the norm or the majority. Even troops who may not have had college before coming into the service are taking courses and getting degrees while in(to include while downrange in Iraq/Afghanistan).
I do agree with your assessment about the term "Ghetto Trash." That's a case of tell us what you really feel.

Originally posted by GT100FV
The point of the matter is that there's no evidence other than anecdotal that there was a pregnant woman. It appears that the Iraqi was a member of the insurgents, and just shot the Americans without cause.

And after 12 pages of people trashing America .. these are still the facts.
But of course, those that just plain ol' hate America won't let the FACTS stand in the way of their spewing.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This thread has no basis in truth and it is a magnet for those who are so without scruples that they will come here to post repugnant lies.

THAT is the absolute truth. Pretty darn sickening, isn't it.
So much for 'deny ignorance', eh? :shk:

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
Just more out of control violence perpetrated by inhumane products of filth who are proudly representing our army.

Way to make us look like the devil! Beating on pregnant woman, yeaaah... America is really doing the right thing in Iraq.

The thing that disgusts me is the fact that we are sending people over there who are heartless and xenophobic enough to BEAT on a pregnant women. These aren't Americans, they are military products of our satanic-mind-controlled institutes. They are taught that human life, especially that of Iraqis or 'insurgents' is worthless. These are the same scum we can expect to shoot American citizens when they finally stand up to the government. Blah.

This war and anybody remotely supportive of it fits squarely in the realm of : LOST CAUSE.

This war is a lost cause, and anybody still supporting it is a LOST CAUSE.

The only solution is to make Iraq America.

Here is more links verifying the OP.

www.uruknet.info...

www.godlikeproductions.com...

"The Muslim Scholars Association, a hardline group of Sunni clerics, said in a statement that the Iraqi soldier had shot the U.S. soldiers after he witnessed them beat a pregnant woman.

"His blood rose and he asked the occupying (U.S.) soldiers to stop beating the woman. Their answer through the translator was: "We will do what we want." So he opened fire on them."

[edit on 1/6/2008 by QuasiShaman]

I find this to be propaganda. That the US news agencies would go bat# crazy over us soldiers killing unarmed Iraqis, but remain silent on this proves it.

Thankskaybye

Originally posted by Gorman91
I find this to be propaganda. That the US news agencies would go bat# crazy over us soldiers killing unarmed Iraqis, but remain silent on this proves it.

Thankskaybye

Well it does seem odd that The Military is not giving any details and decided to wait until after the new year to report this.

Iraqi soldier reportedly kills three US troops, including American captain, in al Mawsil.

In a dispatch posted at 11:35am Baghdad time Wednesday morning, the Yaqen News Agency reported that US troops had arrested Qaysar Sa'di, a soldier in the puppet "Iraqi National Guards" after he shot and killed three US troops, including a captain.

Yaqen reported a source in the puppet security forces in al-Qayyarah as saying that a translator who was accompanying the Americans was also wounded in the incident.

The source said that the incident took place in a neighborhood of al-Mawsil, 420km northwest of Baghdad, two days earlier in the course of joint raids that the US troops and their puppet army allies were carrying out. An American soldier at one point began to beat and kick a pregnant Iraqi woman, prompting the Iraqi puppet "National Guard" soldier to try to intervene. The confrontation between him and the American escalated to gunfire when Sa'di, the "National Guard" soldier opened fire on the American and his companions.

The source said that Sa'di was a resident of al-Qayyarah and had been in the puppet army for more than a year at the time of the incident.

Al-Qayyarah.

US admits another "non-combat" death of soldier in Iraq.

In a dispatch posted at 10:34am Baghdad time Wednesday morning, the Yaqen News Agency reported that the US military had admitted that one more of its troops had been killed in a "non-combat" incident near the US military airfield at al-Qayyarah, about 60km southeast of al-Mawsil in northern Iraq.

Yaqen reported the US statement as announcing that the death occurred on Monday, 31 December 2007. The Americans offered no further details on the incident and failed to indicate why the news of the death was delayed until after the start of the new year.

www.uruknet.de...

Am sorry but this post got my blood boild mainly the bashing of US troops have some respect and they way you state your posts 3 familys have lost their children and then the rest.

Yes you can go on about how they have or may have kicked "and alleged pregnant woman" but you will never know what led up to that event if it ever happend at all. This is a very sensative area matter all I ask for is have some respect where and when due on both sides!

[edit on 22/11/2007 by SE7EN]

reply to post by QuasiShaman


The article you are citing is so biased that it cannot be taken seriously. Every other sentence contains a reference to a 'puppet army'. I guess we know where the author of the article leans.

the articles you refer to have no bias either , its printed by firms who are repressing info about ron paul aswell,

your military has gone out with information blockage , because its under investigation , yet you that is your reference of information , that there is no info excep reuters story and a couple of blogs stating a diffrent one.

we read daily about us soldiers and thier abuse of the iraqie ppl yet you deny that.

reply to post by NewWorldOver


This Lebanese newspaper is far more trustworthy?


Reports are that 2 Americans are dead, not 3, oooh the Arabic newspaper got it all wrong. OOPs.

reply to post by QuasiShaman


I got another link also.

Well after searching the internet for reliable sources on this news you know NBC, CBS, CNN or fox, I can find this in almost any blog and Reuters news, even Canada news, but not US news.

This puts a doubt on any American minds as to the veracity of the news.

Three soldiers lie death, but what it bothers me is that the Iraqi soldier after killing the three soldiers fled the area and was found later.

Then he claimed that he killed the three soldiers for beating a pregnant woman .

Now a group call The Muslim Scholars Association, a hardliner group of Sunni clerics are the ones claiming the Iraqi soldier innocent but I don’t see the victim, Where is the pregnant woman?

Now

'Shooting deliberate'
Brigadier-General Noor al-Din Hussein, commander of the Iraqi Army's 4th Brigade, 2nd Division, told Reuters: "The shooting was deliberate. It was not an accident."

The soldier is an Arab from the minority Kurdish.

www.abs-cbnnews.com...

So this is still under investigation, given the record of this type of news slipping from US media screening, I doubt that we may ever see anything more than just the news of three more soldiers to add in the long growing list of the death from this war.

I will keep my mind open to who is to blame and who is not, because is not very clear yet the reason for the killing

Originally posted by SE7EN
Am sorry but this post got my blood boild mainly the bashing of US troops have some respect and they way you state your posts 3 familys have lost their children and then the rest.

Yes you can go on about how they have or may have kicked "and alleged pregnant woman" but you will never know what led up to that event if it ever happend at all. This is a very sensative area matter all I ask for is have some respect where and when due on both sides!

[edit on 22/11/2007 by SE7EN]

And you don't know either!

Stop with the Patriotic nonsense!

They ALL volunteered for this knowing full well what they were getting into.

I have zero sympathy for people that buy into this Patriotic myth and then die for it.

[edit on 1/6/2008 by QuasiShaman]

reply to post by zerbot565


Nobody is trying to deny substantiated stories. You just can't say well bad things have happened before, so it must be so. I guess the puppet translator, and other Iraqis the Americans were working with, were in on it as well? To this reader, if I see the word puppet used, I know I can pretty much ignore the rest of the story, as it hasn't got a chance of being objective.

As for the military waiting till an incident is investigated before reporting the findings, there have been numerous examples where embarassment has occurred because info was put out before proper investigations had been conducted(i.e. Pat Tillman). Hard as in may be for some here to believe, but the military does learn from its mistakes, and tries not to repeat the same ones over and over.

In other instances the military doesn't report about something because in doing so it gives credibility to an assertion. In otherwords if something is ridiculous, the military may not even dignify the assertion with a response. This is why you don't see the military responding to every allegation or claim- they try to stay out of "counter-battery" press releases.

I say that he is trying to take power.Its so obvious. When a war torn country has a week government some one will try to take power. But America is strong in Iraq so He will try to destroy the power to gain power. Its propaganda for him to gain power.

The American soldiers I've heard talking about their times in Iraq all sound so cynical. When they're drinking, it's obvious that they resent being deployed over there, because they think the people are stupid and more like animals than human beings. When I brought up the educated ones in the Green Zone, my comments were met with laughter. "Those are just the puppets," one soldier said. "And puppets are stupid, too."

I'd hate to think that this small sampling of soldiers and comments are indicative of what MOST of our troops think of the Iraqi people, but if it is, then there is little respect for their unfortunate situations which have been, in part, caused by our inept occupation of that country for the sake of oil.

If a pregnant Muslim woman were asked to "show her belly" to prove she is not hiding contraband or a bomb, and she refuses because of her culture and religion, it's entirely possible that our troops would brutalize her for her reticence to comply with direct orders. Unfortunately, since most of the true news is surpressed, we have no way of knowing what really happened ... what prompted it ... and whether or not disrespect of the woman's condition is truth.

yes i like the word Power