Forget Oil New Crisis Is Food

Nobody seems to be getting it. It's not about the US and Canada and Mexico, high fructose corn syrup or biofuels. It's about a worldwide shortage of food and an emerging middle class in China and India that could double the demand for food in a few years. Japan is one of the world's richest nations and only have enough grain stockpiled to last about 7 weeks. Last month, several people died in a stampede in China to buy discounted cooking oil. Wheat prices have risen 92% in the last 12 months.

The rising cost of fuel to produce and transport food, plus the rising demand, is going to cause massive inflation in just about every country. With the credit crisis, rising unemployment, falling markets and huge national debt, the US is going to be one of the hardest hit. Other countries with no modern agricultural industries may not make it at all. The world is going to be a radically different place soon.

Originally posted by palehorse23
reply to post by MajorMalfunction

 

This is because big agribusiness has made such a corn surplus that it's become a major contributor to obesity, heart disease, etc.

This I have to somewhat disagree with. Every individual has the ability to control their weight and fitness level. That is one thing that gets under my skin a bit. The main cause of obesity is not what is in our food, it is that people are lazy and can't get off the couch or away from the television. People refuse to get up and walk places. How many people do you actually see taking the stairs at the mall or in a hospital? I believe that is the main cause of our fatness in this country.

That is a rather black and white way of thinking about it. Most issues are rarely black and white, and this is no exception. It is known that the percentage of noninstitutionalized adults age 20 years and over who are overweight or obese in the USA is 66.3% (www.cdc.gov...) which is astounding. But using your way of thinking one could conclude this means Americans are the laziest undisciplined people on the planet.

I am not American and i do NOT believe that to be true.

While i do not deny the importance of personal choice, i also cannot deny your lifestyle and culture has much to do with it. In the USA the ability to consume is held aloft as an ultimate goal - bigger is always better because others can see how much you have.

Americans are literally eating themselves to death. Consuming is half of the American identity - more and more. As a result, the idea of consuming less as a means of bettering ones life is going to be very hard for such a culture to truly understand. Needless to say, this does not apply to all Americans.

I have often made the comment when visiting America that "i have never seen so many overweight people in my life." I do not say that as an insult, i say it because it is true.

reply to post by the titor experience

But using your way of thinking one could conclude this means Americans are the laziest undisciplined people on the planet.

Well I am American and work in the health care industry. There of course are other factors in obesity, i.e. genetics, but I am telling you, this country is a very lazy nation as a whole. Even when it comes to technology, we have to have a device to do every little task for us. It seems to me, IMHO, that people do not want to think for themselves anymore. You said it yourself, 66.3% are overweight. That is an astronomical figure. You mean to tell me that most of those people are obese not because they choose to? I don't buy it. I feel another factor is depression. The way the world is today, people are so depressed that they can't pay bills, have extra money in their pockets, that they just eat themselves silly. People get addicted to food just like drugs, alcohol, etc. I'm sorry, but I am just a firm believer that people choose their own destiny by the chioces they make. Everyone has the power to change their lives for the better unless it is already too late.

reply to post by plumranch

We can thank the new demand for ethanol as fuel for starting the phenomenon as it really got the ball rolling! It's good for the US (and us midwest corn/bean farmers) as it will really get us producing and benifiting from the high prices.

My thoughts on ethanol as fuel are that we will end up just like we are with oil. Plus, it is so far away from mass production that I do not think we will ever see it in our lifetime. How about this alternative? Check out my thread on the aircar that is being introduced:

Aircar

I agree, forget oil/fuel, we have air-powered cars already!

Click below on my sig for more information!

Originally posted by palehorse23
reply to post by the titor experience

 

But using your way of thinking one could conclude this means Americans are the laziest undisciplined people on the planet.

Well I am American and work in the health care industry. There of course are other factors in obesity, i.e. genetics, but I am telling you, this country is a very lazy nation as a whole. Even when it comes to technology, we have to have a device to do every little task for us. It seems to me, IMHO, that people do not want to think for themselves anymore. You said it yourself, 66.3% are overweight. That is an astronomical figure. You mean to tell me that most of those people are obese not because they choose to? I don't buy it. I feel another factor is depression. The way the world is today, people are so depressed that they can't pay bills, have extra money in their pockets, that they just eat themselves silly. People get addicted to food just like drugs, alcohol, etc. I'm sorry, but I am just a firm believer that people choose their own destiny by the chioces they make. Everyone has the power to change their lives for the better unless it is already too late.

When will you people learn that any organism, like a human, is going to use whatever is in its environment. When your society is saturated with technology then lots of technology will be used, when it is saturated with fast foods, then lots of fast foods will be consumed. This is not laziness, it is the general tendency of our species.

I normally live in an Atlanta suburb, so I don't walk many places. I have to make a mental point of walking someplace in order to get my exercise, as opposed to hopping in the truck and driving someplace. The conduits just don't exist. However, recently I spent some time in Paris, which is a very pedestrian city. Mass transit to get you anywhere and everywhere, including the suburbs. While I was there I used just as much technology, and ate frequently. At night, I was tired, and went to sleep before midnight. While I was there, I lost 10 pounds and gained lots of stamina. When I returned to Atlanta, I yearned to walk more places, but alas I do not live in a pedestrian area.

My point, is that humans adapt, thats what we do, and part of adaptation is exploiting the environment subconsciously. It's very easy for those of us who feel holier than thou or are self-deprecating to say everyone is so lazy, but why don't we look at the reason for that, its the infrastructure more than it is the individual. When you get fat, you don't look at the cells and say "Why are you so lazy?", because they use whats available, you try to change the habits of the system as a whole. We can't call everyone lazy when we don't have the initiative ourselves to change the system so that the trends change.

[edit on 5-1-2008 by Quazga]

Drinkable water is going to be the next oil.

reply to post by palehorse23

not just us in north america--the whole world is starting to implode--its amazing that none of our "leaders" has the brains to tell the arabs where we "have to get our oil from"? that if they want to eat then an apple will cost them 100 to 150 dollars a piece.one apple =one barrel of oil if thats the route their greed wants to take them

drink your oil if you dont want to be fair with us---only problem is to get india and china to work with us instead of undercutting any aggreements for a fair deal

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Maybe, maybe not.

But my point was that if corn is in such short supply, perhaps they need to quit using it as the sweetener that is in everything. Until I stop seeing HFCS and corn syrup in every product I buy, I don't believe the doom n gloom cries of people involved in finance.

If corn is such in short supplies its not because they use it in sweetener, its because they use it as some kind of alternative to gasoline. Now the bulk of the production goes into ethanol fuel so thats why theres such a high demand for corn. That is also why the prices are going up and up.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe

It's about a worldwide shortage of food and an emerging middle class in China and India that could double the demand for food in a few years.

Hi mythat,
You make it sound like we are going to run out of food and all the poor countries are going to starve and the fat Americans are to blame, etc.

I'll make a prediction that makes a lot of sense based on economics (that's Econ 101). Food prices will rise a small amount, commodity prices will increase maybe even double. Producers will seize the opportunity and significantly increase grain production which will flood the market and lower prices. Remember that even today the US and many other governments pay producers not to produce!

I starred and flagged the OP. Then the entire discussion went completely off topic. I see you tried to resurrect the important article that started this thread to no avail. Kudos for trying anyway.

The issue is indeed the impact of the rising middle class as formerly poor Third World Countries come out of the Dark Ages they were trapped in. There simply are not enough resources for them to rely on advanced countries, like the United States, to provide their needs. They, meaning their leaders, have got to realize that it is now time for them to learn to feed themselves and stop relying on others for their needs. Any population that cannot produce even its most basic needs, like food, is doomed to failure and suffering.

We may produce 40+% of the worlds corn but it is not incumbent upon us to produce corn for other countries. It is currently fortunate that we do. If these other countries have no will to grow their own food supplies, it is pure nonsense to blame any other country for their own failures. China is improving by leaps and bounds, but if they can't feed themselves; to what benefit? How is it any other countries problem?

One of the obvious points of the article is that countries like the US will not only NOT be hurt by this; we will prosper from it. Not due to any evil behavior on our part, but because of the failure of the Governments of other countries to see to their citizens basic needs. That is important enough to state it again. This is about the failure of other countries to even try to provide for themselves.

Our Farmers did not start out producing such fantastic yields. They worked hard, experimented and learned to do this. It is the responsibility of other Nations to do the same for their own sake. They even have the advantage of not having to go through the pain of the experimentation as it is freely available information. Lazy? Yes, relying on others for your food while you sit and do nothing to improve your condition is the height of laziness is it not?

China is awash in money, so why are they doing so little to prevent the starvation of their own people? The same can be said of many other countries. They divert the anger to other nations, like the US, to avoid a Revolution by their own people while their leaders fill their palaces with our products and live in luxury. Do they care if their people starve? I kind of doubt it.

This topic could be a worthwhile discussion. Since it has devolved into a discussion about why Americans are overweight dooms it to just another uninteresting thread.

[edit on 1/5/2008 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
There simply are not enough resources for them to rely on ... countries ...to provide their needs.

They, meaning their leaders, have got to realize that it is now time for them to learn to feed themselves and stop relying on others for their needs.

Any population that cannot produce even its most basic needs... is doomed to failure and suffering.

... it is pure nonsense to blame any other country for their own failures. How is it any other countries problem?

... the failure of the Governments of ... countries to see to their citizens basic needs. That is important enough to state it again. This is about the failure of ... countries to even try to provide for themselves.

So by your logic, the United States should IMMEDIATELY and without any words of protest (no excuses allowed) cut back their petroleum/energy consumption by about two thirds.

Right?

Imports: 10,118,000 barrels/day; Production: 5,102,000 barrels/day



Something about people in glass houses...
.

reply to post by Gools


What does oil have to do with this discussion about food? Are you saying the Governments of countries who do nothing to feed their own people are innocent bystanders. Are you saying it is our fault they have made no effort to feed their own citizens. How exactly has the US forced them to not grow their own food or remain hundreds years behind even though the knowledge is available to them to care for themselves? Every year thousands of them go through our Universities and learn everything they need to know to provide their own food. Yet, they do not? What would be your explanation for that?

In the early 80's the Bogeyman for the world was that we would run out of food due to the Population increase. The US pumped huge sums of money into starving nations to try and alleviate this danger to much of the worlds population. It did not work. Why? The Government of the countries we tried to help made damn sure the food, tractors, schools and supplies went to them and never allowed these programs to benefit their people. African Kings and Chinese Aristocracy sold the tractors and feasted on the food supplies while their subjects starved. Starvation is probably the single most efficient method of controlling a population. Many of them learned this while getting a free education in our Universities.

My source? In the mid -80's, I wrote and submitted to a Congressional Committee a Program to work with a target country to bring them up to 1900 US farming standards. I was assisted by a former Assistant Secretary of AID under the Carter Administration. I got to the point of tentative approval for 7 million in R&D money and then backed out. The main reason I backed out I can not talk about as it might be dangerous for me and I'm not sure why this thread has caused me to even mention it.

The reason I can talk about is that the leadership of these countries worked very hard to insure the continued starvation of their peoples. It is all about control. If you think China wants its poor to have adequate food you are wrong. They actively work to guarantee they are kept on the verge of starvation. The US tried to help. Both Church groups and Governmental Agencies attempted to help but were blocked at every gate by these countries leaders.

When you send plane loads of seed to starving people they either eat the seed or their leaders take it all to control them it is that simple. Many good people have tried to help to no avail. Peoples hatred of Americans does not change that fact. Put the blame where it truly lies. Using propaganda to cover up the evils of this world, that are not the fault of the US, does not change a thing. Yes we have made a mess of things often, but that does not make these monsters innocent.

Let's just say that things are a lot more complicated than you make them out to be. It's not just about all those "poor stupid backward countries" and their "poor stupid leaders".

Originally posted by Blaine91555
What does oil have to do with... discussion about food?

Thanks, but I think I'll move along now...
.

reply to post by Gools


Your putting words in my mouth and that is really unexpected from a Moderator. Not every evil in this world is the fault of the US. Please quote were I said anything derogatory about the victims. You can not because I did not. Every minute of their day is taken up with survival. They are the true innocents in the equation.

If you continue to be blinded by a hatred for one enemy another will surely sneak up and destroy you while you are not looking. It will happen.

Stand in front of your Parliament and make a demand and see how far it gets you. The same applies for me here. These innocent victims are in a far worse situation than us. When I travel through Canada I frankly see no differences. We all look and act the same. Hate is a terrible thing. I'm not about to join the blind who hate their country instead of trying to improve things. They are the true sheep. We can't be controlled through starvation like the poor people we are talking about so they keep us at each others throats with ridiculous arguments and rely on our hatred to protect them from us. No positive change will happen as long as people keep letting hatred control them. You should know this by now.

I'm condemning their leadership. Blaming their evil acts on the US is how they divert attention away from the real culprits. Its a shame that their propaganda seems to be working. It guarantees the world will turn a blind eye to their atrocities while they are busy on a Snipe Hunt. Defending these despots is akin to defending Hitler or Stalin. They may be ignored in the worlds news but that does not make them any less dangerous or evil. China should scare the holy crap out of the world and yet these Dictators are given a pass. Hundreds of Millions of starving people at their command and the world hums along oblivious to the real danger. How sad.

Edited to say:
Please remove the quotation marks from your post. I did not say those things and you were responding to me. People who don't read the posts completely will think I actually said those things.


[edit on 1/5/2008 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by Quazga

It's very easy for those of us who feel holier than thou or are self-deprecating to say everyone is so lazy, but why don't we look at the reason for that, its the infrastructure more than it is the individual.

That is unfair to say that that statement comes from people who think they are holier than thou. I think that is yet another excuse, "I don't live in a pedestrian area. Who says you have to be going somewhere? Walk around your block. My point is, people just do not do many things for themselves anymore. Who even turns on the TV manually? It comes down to very simple things like that. Changing the infrastructure? How the heck are you supposed to do that? Tell people that we no longer live under the free enterprise system? It isn't just fast food either. As stated before, eating better for yourself costs a lot more money. Even the food at the stores that we make at home tend not to contain good ingredients.

Scarcity claims must always be viewed with a certain degree of skepticism.

Scarcity creates dependence, which perpetuates control paradigms.

The most prolific western grains wheat and corn are not healthy choices for a human diet. Wheat uses more human energy to process than it returns as food source. 90% of all corn supplies are contaminated with a fungus. The corn fungus causes the body to produce antibodies to neutralize the fungus.

Eating grains like corn and wheat weaken the immune system of healthy people

The best thing to happen to the worlds food supply would be the extinction of wheat and corn

The absence of wheat and corn will create the opportunity for a return to ancient grains like amaranth, quinoa and millet

When scarcity claims concern the food supply I am cynical , because I don't remember the world ever running out of food before, certain people can't get enough food but that is a political agenda which involves distribution or development, not because the Earth has run out of some type of food or someway to grow or replenish any food

reply to post by NWRHINO


Excellent point! The best thing for the health of the population would be to rid corn and wheat from our diet. Kamut is an excellent replacement - similar to wheat but with 30% more protein and has not yet been genetically modified. Many people who are allergic to wheat can tolerate Kamut without any difficulty.

I recently went through a cancer diagnosis and my doctor recommended that I eliminate wheat, corn and dairy from my diet immediately. I don't even feed my dogs anything with wheat or corn in it.

As for a food shortage, there isn't one.

Sorry..that got a little off topic.

Originally posted by imdeceived

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Maybe, maybe not.

But my point was that if corn is in such short supply, perhaps they need to quit using it as the sweetener that is in everything. Until I stop seeing HFCS and corn syrup in every product I buy, I don't believe the doom n gloom cries of people involved in finance.

If corn is such in short supplies its not because they use it in sweetener, its because they use it as some kind of alternative to gasoline. Now the bulk of the production goes into ethanol fuel so thats why theres such a high demand for corn. That is also why the prices are going up and up.

This is exactly right. A remember an economist article in Nov or Dec about this. Article titled "The End of Cheap Food".

Originally posted by palehorse23
reply to post by Quazga

 

It's very easy for those of us who feel holier than thou or are self-deprecating to say everyone is so lazy, but why don't we look at the reason for that, its the infrastructure more than it is the individual.

That is unfair to say that that statement comes from people who think they are holier than thou. I think that is yet another excuse, "I don't live in a pedestrian area. Who says you have to be going somewhere? Walk around your block. My point is, people just do not do many things for themselves anymore. Who even turns on the TV manually? It comes down to very simple things like that. Changing the infrastructure? How the heck are you supposed to do that? Tell people that we no longer live under the free enterprise system? It isn't just fast food either. As stated before, eating better for yourself costs a lot more money. Even the food at the stores that we make at home tend not to contain good ingredients.

You have made my point, yet you fail to see it. The fact that one has to mentally make a choice to exercise or eat well is not a natural thing at all. Adaptation happens subconsciously, not consciously. We are not programed genetically to have to make ourselves exercise etc. Take the Cherokee people for example, once they started farming and during times when deer and rabbit were plentiful, they got sedentary and fat. As a matter of fact, they have an extremely high rate of diabetes in their reservations. This is a very human trait.